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September 6, 2006

House of the Day: South Slope Frame

house
This South Slope frame house sure is purdy. The four-story, two-family place looks to be in excellent shape and chock full o' architectural details. The config is owner's triplex over garden level floor-thru. The rental generates $1,850 a month. Our emails to Betancourt went unreturned so we don't know the address, but this should be a pretty easy one for readers to figure out. Without knowing a little more about the location, it's hard to comment on the $1,450,000 asking price.
South Slope Two-Family [Betancourt] GMAP P*Shark




Posted by Brownstoner at 11:37 AM | Comments (46)
Categories: Properties

Comments

It's on 11th Street between third and fourth Avenues. It's the house of a good friend of mine. He put a lot of love into fixing it up. Whether he gets that price or not remains to be seen, but it was definately a quality renovation.

Posted by: Shahn Andersen at September 6, 2006 11:49 AM

Nice-looking reno and that's one of the nicest blocks west of 4th (it's really Gowanus), but the asking has got to be a record for that block by several hundred thousand. Then again, a three-story frame on the block sold for nearly a million earlier this year.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 11:58 AM

By the way, forget the asking price to buy -- who's the sucker paying $1850 for a 1BR between 3rd and 4th avenues?

Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 12:01 PM

In a word: gorgeous.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 12:02 PM

nice, but no way it's worth 1.450. I am betting it sells for $950,000. For $1.450 you can get much more these days.

Posted by: anon at September 6, 2006 12:10 PM


What's the exact address? I want to Property Shark this sucker. Why is the brokerage hiding the location? I smell fish!

Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 12:44 PM

The broker is hiding the location because 11th street between 3rd and 4th Avenues is most definitely NOT Park Slope. (To Anon at 12:01: $1,850 in rent is probably reasonable, however, given today's rental market.)

Posted by: Park Sloper at September 6, 2006 1:00 PM

I love this house...I would've called it a cottage, but it seems deceptively bigger inside...but it's definitely in the nabe we dubbed "Park Slump"! There are actually lots of fascinating little farmhouse-y properties tucked away in the Slump, a few with deep front yards...I've always guessed they were very old, and preceded the brownstone row houses by decades.

Posted by: Brenda from Flatbush at September 6, 2006 1:05 PM

I WANT TO MEET THE SUCKER WHO BUYS THIS FOR OVER 1 MILL IN THIS MARKET. wORST QUARTER OVER QUARTER IN 30 YEARS FOLKS GET REAL, THESE DAYS ARE GONE.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 1:06 PM

I don't know why people are so protective of the term Park Slope. Yes, this place is definitely on the verge, but if it's one block away from a subway station used by thousands of Park Slopers every day, I think it's close enough.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 1:15 PM

I can see it moving for more than a million, maybe even 1.2M. That stat about a bad quarter does not _yet_ apply to brooklyn townhouses...

Posted by: OE at September 6, 2006 1:16 PM

True OE, and the comment re worst quarter over quarter doesn't necessarily equate to a drop in prices, rather a drop in increase in prices if you read the data. No one's going to be getting an half priced townshouses anytime soon...if ever.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 1:40 PM

Anyone who says that 11th Street between 3rd and 4th Avenues isn't Park Slope clearly knows more than the Department of City Planning.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/parkslope/park1bgr.shtml

Remember them? The agency that determines what zoning is allowed in what neighborhood? Their rezoning of Park Slope in 2003 went all the way down to 3rd Avenue and 15th Street. I'm going with their definition of a neighborhood. How about you?

Posted by: Shahn Andersen at September 6, 2006 1:44 PM

wow, too bad the furniture doesn't come with it. i love the nursery. not to pry, but why are these people selling? it looks like a lovely home. is the school zone not park slope?

Posted by: sylvia at September 6, 2006 2:05 PM

229 11th Street.
And noone from the wrong side of 4th Avenue is allowed to cross over to other side of avenue for any reason and it is punishable by death if claim to live in Park Slope or associate in person with citizen of Park Slope.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 2:28 PM

sorry about that...

Posted by: sylvia at September 6, 2006 2:34 PM

Park Sloper,

I wish $1850 was reasonable in today's rental market, because I own a house a block closer to the park with a 1BR rental, but I bet I could only get $1500 or so for it. Either that, or my tenant is getting an even better deal than I realize.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 2:51 PM

Shahn,

According to that zoning map, Park Slope ends on the north side at President Street. Anybody here go along with that ruling?

I don't think City Planning was trying to create the definitive boundaries of Park Slope there. Their system appears to be to name each zoning project after a neighborhood, and as 95% of this one is in Park Slope, makes sense to call it Park Slope. But 4th Avenue, a four-lane wide highway, is a common-sense geographic boundary, just like Flatbush on the north. That said, this block is just as nice as many on the Slope side of 4th, so tomato/tomahto as far as whether it's a good place to live.

But I think there's a point to being a stickler for neighborhood names, even if they're arbitrary, snobby and disagreed on, because otherwise real estate agents will have even more license to stretch the boundaries and con people.

Posted by: linusvanpelt at September 6, 2006 3:15 PM

I don't find the liberal use of neighborhood names a problem. Nobody is being conned....The apt you rent or house you buy is at very specific address.
People ask where abouts you live... they are looking for general reference to something they know. Tell someone Gowanus and doesn't help most people.
I've lived around here most my life and suddenly there is a 'neighborhood' Gowanus.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 3:44 PM

My friends and I call it Dark Slope.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 4:16 PM

I went to the 1st (and only) OH for this property on July 30th. It's absolutely smashing and the guy did a great job with renovations. It is 229 11th st bet 3rd & 4th. The place was purchased for under 200K in 1999!!! This price would be historical in the neighboring blocks. Nothing has sold for over a mill bet 3rd & 4th even during the crazy times. 233 11th st sold for 860K in 4/06; 241 11th st for 930K in 4/06. You can get much nicer blocks for 1.45M. I think 1.2M would be pushing it too. There's no doubt it is gorgeous. They have bought a larger place in Bay Ridge--that's why they are moving.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 4:17 PM

234 11th, a 3-story with about 600 sf less according to propertyshark, sold for $995K on in June.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 4:32 PM

don't know if anyone cares, but corcoran has 221 11th st for sale for $1.235MM...here's the listing... http://corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=880044

and it's not even close to be as nice as the HOTD.

Posted by: anon at September 6, 2006 5:13 PM

Hear lots of posters criticising properties and talking about the market dropping. Some of it is valid, but I'd like to know where people are finding single-families in good neighborhoods for under $1 million. I'd like that to happen, so I can buy. I'm just not seeing it. If you can buy this for $1.0 (as a previous poster suggests) your mortgage is going to cost you about $55k per year and you've got about $20k of rent. That leave you with a cost of about $3,000 per month (pre-tax benefit) for a triplex. I think it goes for more than $1 million.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 5:15 PM

The people at Betancourt say this house has an accepted offer. It must be pretty close to asking because they're not showing it anymore. I thought it would go for lower too but there you go. Not too much softening over here in the South Slope!!

Posted by: west at September 6, 2006 5:20 PM

I'm guessing from reading propshard - which says 16.67 x 36 and has reference to application for addition on 1st 2 floor that is about 2800 sq ft. Just guess though.
Which would put it above $500sq ft. for well done and completely redone space.
Of course you are under penalty of death if you ever claim to live in ParkSlope.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 5:52 PM

prop shark sq. footage is often incorrect and/or out of date. they leave off an entire floor in the sq. footage calculation on my house.

Posted by: lp at September 6, 2006 6:46 PM

oh wow! I...-oof!! slipped on the drool. Beautiful house, Major envy.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 8:10 PM

Marisa:

Congratulations. Settle a bet for us. What neighborhood do you tell people your house is in?

Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 8:53 PM

Park Slope...Why would it be considered anything else...

Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 9:02 PM

Thank you all for the nicer comments about my house...(especially the nursery I did it all myself)..Every house I have looked at for 1.1 or higher was not even worth looking at in fact many needed kitchens and bathrooms..Please fill me in on were you can find a house fully renovated with a monthly income for under a mil....Thanks...Mitzi (Accepted offer already)...

Posted by: Marisa at September 6, 2006 9:34 PM

This house is 1 of a kind. The amount of detail is incredible. This house was filmed by HGTV and will air soon. This house when purchased was a wreck. All the original plaster work was restored to the parlor floor. All new work was done to blend with all the original decor. All kitchen and baths were totally redone. There are 5 existing marble fireplaces with original metal inserts along with 2 brick fireplaces in the attic space. All new wood floors with 16 inch borders throughout all rooms. The floors were stained to appear original. The stairs were totally rebuild and fastened. The handrail and spindles were refinished to original form. This house took approximately 7-8 years to complete. A great deal of money,sweat and imagination went into this house. I could go on for hours. There is just to much that this house has to offer. Regarding the block be considered park slope who cares. The only thing I care about are my neighbors. My neighbors are the greatest people in the world. They are always looking out for one another. There are a great deal of families on the block.

Posted by: greg at September 6, 2006 9:38 PM

From a NYT story about a family that moved to the same block:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/20/realestate/20hunt.html?ex=1157688000&en=6ee2c612c08a4eb3&ei=5070

"The family is still unclear on what to call their new location. Some say Park Slope, but they prefer Gowanus. "I like people to go, 'Oh, where's that,' " Ms. Millard said. One agent referred to the area as "G Slope.""

Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 9:41 PM

I'm really curious about the layout and wish there was a floorplan included in the listing. Can someone who knows tell me how they did the triplex? Was a 2nd stairway built between the parlor and third floor, so the 4th floor tenant's access to his apartment was not through private space? The conventional triplex plus rental is top three floors with ground floor the rental. What do people think of the HOD's configuration instead?

Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 11:10 PM

Oops, never mind about that previous post, I think I'm mistaken that the rental is the top floor. I was confused by the 7th photo that was labeled "top floor living room" which looked like it also had a kitchen. The actual description seems to say the rental is the ground floor. Sorry.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 11:16 PM

Greg (owner & poster @ 9:38) Your work on this place is incredible & you deserve every penny you get. I also like your comment about the neighborhood and what REALLY matters. I'm sure your neighbors will miss you and if I'm lucky enough, I'd have you work on a place of mine someday.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 11:38 PM

I think this house is adorable and the reno beautiful, but I find the immediate neighborhood depressing. And I'm not talking lack of amenities, either. There's not a lot of shade which feels oppressive in the summer, and a really don't like the lack of architectural unity on these streets. You have a gorgeous house like this one, then lots of siding over flat surfaces that look, basically, like shacks (I dislike a few of the WT streets for this reason as well). We were looking to buy while living in PS about 4 years ago. This nabe and others across the park, which are far leafier, were the same price range. We opted to move across the park because aesthetically this neighborhood is just not terribly inviting.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 7, 2006 7:59 AM

Interestingly, a lot of the blocks below 5th Ave around this area (11th St thru, say 15th) has many wonderful wood frame houses. Many more than you see in Park Slop proper. Perhaps because PS was built as a kind of development, and these wooden houses are older?

Posted by: anonymous at September 7, 2006 3:46 PM

The frame houses are all post-1900, no?

Posted by: Anonymous at September 7, 2006 4:41 PM

no. not all post 1900. I think most if not all would be pre-1900 (at least in this area of Brooklyn and attached).

Posted by: Anonymous at September 7, 2006 4:48 PM

My South Slope frame house was built in the 1890s. I actually had an accepted offer on a similar (though less beautiful) house on that 11th St. block for about $200K in 1997 or thereabouts, but the seller backed out. It is a pretty block, but the surrounding area is not so pretty.

Posted by: Rose at September 7, 2006 8:54 PM

Yeah, most of these frame houses seem to have been built from the 1890s onward, whereas brownstones were built largely during the previous period between the 1840s-1890s (exact opposite of what anonymous 3:46p describes).

Posted by: Anonymous at September 7, 2006 10:32 PM

The additional space was never built so it comes out to 2400sf or $604/sf which is quite high, especially for Gowanus.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 8, 2006 7:07 PM

We bought recently in south slope, very near this house, tho we are btw. 4th and 5th. We definitely paid over a million, but we got what we were looking for--quality renovation, 3 true bedrooms in our duplex plus nice-size attic bedroom with half bath, good yard, good rental income, nice quiet street, etc. We could have gotten more house in Lefferts or Ditmas, but decided it was worth it to stay within walking distance of our Park Slope life
--with 2 kids, this was important to us. Come check out the cute frame houses in the South Slope!

Posted by: anonymous at September 8, 2006 10:11 PM

I have Irish friends who were born in the nabe, 70 years ago, and they still call it Gowanus. If they ever turn 4th Avenue into a tree lined boulevard then maybe I would think about the area. Right now 4th Ave is only a little better than the Prospect Expressway in the hostile way it cuts through and divides neighborhoods. When the AY project gets going the increased traffic will choke 4th Avenue. The house, is fantastic though.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 8, 2006 10:39 PM

Everyone needs to get over the tree and leaf talk....There are many trees on 11th and not a depressing area to live at all..
Leaves and trees don't make a neighborhood
good neighbors do. Maybe less leaves mean less stuck up yuppies....Lets keep it that way. Would live on 3,4,5,6 over 7th and higher anyday......

Posted by: Anonymous at September 12, 2006 4:15 PM

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