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September 6, 2006
Co-op of the Day: 469 Eastern Parkway
Those of you paying close attention may have been able to tell that we have a thing for the old pre-war co-ops that line Eastern Parkway. For the quality of the architecture and sense of spaciousness, it's hard to find nicer apartments for the money. This 2 bedroom at Number 469 between Rogers and Nostrand looks like a classic, with a sweet living room-dining configuration that looks positively grand. The big question mark is not the apartment but the rest of the building and the block it's on. Can anyone speak to those issues? The listing just hit the market and there will be open houses on Sunday afternoon and Tuesday evening.
2 Bedroom Co-op [Brown Harris Stevens] GMAP
Comments
Bad neighborhood.
Posted by: faubus at September 6, 2006 11:17 AM
and bad schools
Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 11:22 AM
bad breath too
Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 11:30 AM
Thank you all for those insightful comments. Positives: Transportation [Nostrand Avenue 2/3 stop is on that block and Franklin Avenue 4/5 is a block and a half away]; proximity to Park, Botanical Gardens and Museum; and Price [relative to something 2 blocks west - a steal]. Would be curious about why certain individuals think this is a bad neighborhood.
Posted by: crouchback at September 6, 2006 11:59 AM
"Would be curious about why certain individuals think this is a bad neighborhood"
uhh...maybe because 2 certain individuals were stabbed/shot on that same street over the weekend during the parade (but at least its down from the 11 last year right?)
Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 12:17 PM
Seems like that stretch of EP has some great deals still. But what do people think about the traffic noise from Eastern Parkway, and the constant rumble of the 2/3 train below? Doesn't that get annoying?
Posted by: Anon at September 6, 2006 12:26 PM
Agreed on this area. It has improved, but remains much more crime-ridden than most buyers would care to tolerate. Plus, the chaos on Labor Day would be hell. Noisy area, too.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 12:40 PM
although I don't know much about the area, I don't think crime that happens during the parade is necessarily indicative of the neighborhood because that could have been someone from anywhere. people come from all over to the parkway of the parade, it can't be controlled and being a religious patron of the parade I'd consider being that close to the action a positive.
Posted by: stuy blkbuttrflie. at September 6, 2006 2:23 PM
2 stabbed shot for a million person turnout? Seems low. Curious to know how other parades rate. Curious to know how other parades are enforced, are open containers of booze tolerated at some parades but not others?
Posted by: Big D at September 6, 2006 3:00 PM
All Brooklyn is largely black. If you think "bad neighborhood" is code for "all black," you're nuts.
Color doesn't make a neighborhood bad. Crime does!
Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 3:11 PM
I'm torn on this one..I'm a blk female who grew up in that area as well. For a variety of reasons I would not live there again....but then I would not live in Manhattan either.
Having said that..it does raise the hair on the back of neck whenever people say "bad neighborhood" because for the most part you know their judgement is based on skin colour
Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 3:16 PM
"All Brooklyn is largely black." Huh?? Show us the stats.
Posted by: Bedstuyer at September 6, 2006 3:47 PM
I am a WHITE female who lives a bit northwest of this building but I regularly walk my dog around this location and it is not a "bad neighborhood" if one's criteria have anything to do with aesthetics and convenience. The buildings on Eastern Parkway are for the most part very well maintained, some of the townhouses right around here have really lovely front gardens not to mention facades. And the architecture along New York Avenue and the neighboring sidestreets is really something else, more interesting than Park Slope in some ways because it is much more varied. I live on Dean Street but would much prefer EP for the proximity to the express subway lines and a much prettier walk to the park. As for the Labor Day shooting (an anecdotal event which does not necessarily reflect crime statistics), it seems like there has been some sort of violent crime in every neighborhood I've lived in (including Chelsea and the Lower East Side, and not that long ago). There were multiple armed robberies outside of my last building in Northside Williamsburg, and the police basically laughed off the reports. On the other hand this neighborhood is patrolled regularly. Unfortunately I have to agree that often people distinguish good neighborhoods from bad along racial lines, as well as how many posh businesses seem to be springing up. Also while I am not much of a parade person myself, it's only one day a year for heaven's sake, I hardly think a reason not to move somewhere.
Posted by: thesupersleuth at September 6, 2006 4:02 PM
The black and white population in Brooklyn are roughly equal - about 35%each.
And for those of you who think a huge wave white gentrifiers has swept across the borough... the 'white' population has shrunk greatly since 1990 - and the borough has improved greatly. Just correlation - not cause and affect.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 4:18 PM
If black and white population are "roughly equal" then all Brooklyn is not largely black. Also- Eastern Parkway has improved with respect to crime as has most of the City. Not into the Parade either- but come on, it's one day.
Posted by: Bedstuyer at September 6, 2006 4:28 PM
Agreed that skin color is irrelevant here. It's usually used as a tactic to silence people who dare criticize a neighborhood that some posters grew up in. Regardless of race, the area where this apt. is located still sees a lot of violent crime. That's what makes it a bad area, not the race of the residents.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 4:49 PM
When refering to this prop or others....
when one says this 'area' has 'a lot' of violent crime - What is 'the area'?
In this case Brownstoner asked about the block it is on. Neighborhoods are large and many of us that have lived here (NYC) for most of our lives know that even crime in 'high crime' nabes is not spread evenly/randomly thru the neighborhood. You live there - you know what spots to avoid.
Secondly what is 'a lot' when even 1 incident is too much? Are you referring to precinct stats which obviously cover large extended area, or your vague notions from items in newspaper? Or heresay? Or someone you know used to live in Crown Hts and they moved because place 'got bad' and was mugged twice. So therefore all of Crown Hts has bad crime.
I don't live anywhere near this place but I would find it hard to believe that Eastern Pkwy is scary place- I have have driven length of it many many times to JFK and looks rather nice.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 6, 2006 5:46 PM
Black, White, Pink, Yellow, Burgundy...who gives a s**t.
nabes are good or bad because of what crime does or does not take place there, period.
To say a nabe is bad because (or coincidentally) a certain race is predominent there is bulls**t.
Bedstuy is mostly black...and there's violent crime there.
Redhook is mostly black...and I almost NEVER hear of violent crime there.
Bensonhurst and Howard Beach is mostly white...and there's violent crime there.
Park Slope is mostly white...and I almost NEVER hear of violent crime there.
Nuff of the generalizations my friends...black or white.
Posted by: blackguy at September 6, 2006 6:51 PM
As a thoroughfare, Eastern Parkway (and its twin, the Grand Concourse in the Bronx)is a fine example of how traffic should flow in a city. The wide, inner lanes carry the through traffic, and the service lanes take care of the parking, and people stopping along the way for whatever reason. It's well lit, the signs are big and visible, it has trees, grass and benches along the way. Great urban planning.
All that to say that Anon 12:26's question about traffic noise - how can it be worse than any other busy street? It should be quieter, because the bulk of the traffic keeps moving and there are no bottlenecks from double parking, or single lanes. Don't know about the subway, but it's amazing how you get used to things like that, and you don't even hear or feel it after a while.
As to the Parade, come on, as others have said it's once a year. Ask people who live on 5th Ave in Manhattan how many parades go by them (not to mention traffic) I hardly think their property values have decreased. Most of the buildings on EP are set far back from the street, so the noise, and even the subway, should be far less. These are not real issues.
Crime and the ethnic makeup of that area - well, I have to agree with the poster at 3:16 who said: "Having said that..it does raise the hair on the back of neck whenever people say "bad neighborhood" because for the most part you know their judgement is based on skin colour." Sad but very true.
I don't live very far from there, and it is far from a "bad neighborhood" by any stretch of the imagination. Looks like a beautiful, spacious apartment.
Posted by: Crown Heights Proud at September 6, 2006 8:19 PM
I've walked over there many times- it's a lovely neighborhood and mostly quiet. I live in walking distance of this part of EP and love it because it reminds me so much of the Bronx' Grand COncourse.
My guess is that the people who are crying bad neighborhood are those who love to get a rise out of people. I guess that it's Crown Hgts turn now, after PLG.
Posted by: jennyanne at September 7, 2006 1:21 AM
hey Blackguy ever heard of Ocean Parkway in Brooklyn..thats the twin to EP in Brooklyn. It sound like you are describing it in your 1st paragraph. I live there and its a wonderful spacious nabe..Ocean Parkway is the best, there is a nice mixture of the races and I feel comfortable and at home, unlike when I lived in Prospect/Lefferts.
Posted by: Anonymous at September 7, 2006 11:05 AM
HERE'S SOME ACTUAL QUALITATIVE DATA:
CompStat crime statistics for the 77th Precint, which includes subject property:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/pdf/chfdept/cs077pct.pdf
In summary: murders doubled from last year, rapes tripled, property crimes down except for a modest increase in auto theft (GLA)
Department of City Planning census data
SINGLE RACE, NONHISPANIC
White 34.7%
Black/African American 34.4%
American Indian and Alaska Native 0.2%Asian 7.5%
Native Hawaiian and other Pacific Islander 0.0%
Some other Race 0.7%
HISPANIC ORIGIN, OF ANY RACE 19.8%
TWO OR MORE RACES, NONHISPANIC 2.8%
Posted by: Anonymous at September 7, 2006 1:20 PM
The Department of City Planning does not perform any kind of census. Their data, if that is what it truly is, obviously is wrong.
Most likely, they make the common highly incorrect assumption that European Caucasians from spanish-speaking countries are non-white.
Thus you have whites, and hispanics of any race.
The problem with this is that "hispanic" countries are typically far more racist than in the US. Whites from such countries do not at all consider them on par with say, a mulatto Dominican. There are just as many white people in the "hispanic" countries as are in the US. There are just a lot more people there so their percentage of the population is much less overall.
For those too lazy to go to the census.gov website:
http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ACSSAFFFacts?_event=&geo_id=05000US36047&_geoContext=01000US%7C04000US36%7C05000US36047&_street=&_county=Kings+County&_cityTown=Kings+County&_state=04000US36&_zip=&_lang=en&_sse=on&ActiveGeoDiv=&_useEV=&pctxt=fph&pgsl=050&_submenuId=factsheet_1&ds_name=null&_ci_nbr=null&qr_name=null®=null%3Anull&_keyword=&_industry=
Posted by: Eryximachus at September 7, 2006 3:40 PM
wheeeel... i've lived in red hook, carrol gardens and now kensington. so it was mostly black (except van brunt and westward which is mostly white and hispanic), then mostly white (italians and young white families and now kensington and thats got to be the most diverse nab ever. jews, muslims, black, mexican, indian, pakis, even whities and some asian. i like it, and i feel the most safe here than anyother nab... statistics or otherwise. violent crime is mostly tied to class then race... especially in nyc where the divides are so stark.
Posted by: smarty pants at September 9, 2006 11:05 PM
it is so annoying that all you seem to talk about on this site when it comes to neighborhoods is what race has to do with it all.
do you people have anything else to indulge your minds with besides what race lives where and how you ego judge everything based upon-most frequently-nothing.
stop with the b.s check out what is happening around this neighborhood people are fighting for there living spaces because of all the race issues that are going on with realtors who show apts to owners of large bldgs and private who seem to think one's color has more to do with the value of money than the actual value in itself.
we are all losing this way-wake up.
Posted by: guest at February 29, 2008 9:33 PM
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