« Adventures in Fence Building: Going Horizontal Just Sold in Brooklyn »
August 3, 2006
What Do You Think of Restricted Commenting?
We're kinda curious to hear what people think of the restricted commenting. We're certainly glad that we don't have to spend the time deleting gazillions of spam and babysitting trolls, but we certainly miss some of the energy that the greater volume of comments generated. (Interestingly, the traffic on the site has not decreased with the comments.) Anyway, for those of you who have taken the time to create a login, what do you think? Should we continue to require registration? Or is it worth it to put up with the trolls to have more debate?
Comments
I like the login - keep it.
Posted by: brownstoneproud at August 3, 2006 9:50 AM
Anything that saves you time and effort is okay by me.
Posted by: Whitbo at August 3, 2006 9:55 AM
Agreed. I also think it keeps the dialogs more open since there is somewhat of an accountability that you cannot constantly post "anon" and you have to go through the task of setting up an account.
While I know folks could set up fake persona, it is nice to read and have discourse with some of the regulars...thought I do miss some of the spicy debates the old system offered. This ain't broke, so don't fix it.
Posted by: lostinbrooklyn at August 3, 2006 9:56 AM
yeah, this is better. i sometimes miss the flame wars' entertainment value, but the discussion is a little smarter overall.
Posted by: Jimmy Legs at August 3, 2006 10:02 AM
It works. I would wait to pass judgement on the dialogue aspect until September-October. The current low numbers on dialogue may be due to vacations.
Posted by: crouchback at August 3, 2006 10:03 AM
It's so easy to create a login identity, I doubt that it would deter someone who really wants to post.
Posted by: fortgreener at August 3, 2006 10:09 AM
I think you should keep the login. It was really frustrating to sort through so much troll nonsense and many times, the useless comments sidetracked legitimate, interesting discussions.
Posted by: AMZona at August 3, 2006 10:19 AM
yeah, i agree that you should keep the login identity thing. i think that there is indeed something fun to the subversive nature of anonymous people sparring, but at the same time i think it could be more interesting as certain personalities and their corresponding tags become better known for their types of comments, their expertise, etc. keep it.
Posted by: ftgreener at August 3, 2006 10:35 AM
Keep it -- I know my own lack of comments recently is due to the fact that I've been working like crazy (vacation? not this summer!) and I never found much entertainment value in the idiotic comments of those scurrilous trolls.
Posted by: babs at August 3, 2006 10:43 AM
I dont think it has anything to do with the sign up. but its have to do with the lack of good houses to comment on. cause there hasnt been that many to comment on to begin with lately.
Posted by: Armchair_warrior at August 3, 2006 10:52 AM
In general, I'm in favor of it. The discourse level has improved, though it probably does discourage people who are here less frequently from chiming in on the spur of the moment.
My commenting has been light of late because of work and vacation, but also because of the sign in requirements (sometimes there are good reasons for posting anonymously).
Posted by: Halden at August 3, 2006 11:18 AM
I think it's been a success. Besides, it's kept me from agreeing with myself anonymously when I take an unpopular opinion and then get reamed for it. :P
Posted by: Shahn Andersen at August 3, 2006 11:27 AM
As one of the main targets of the troll, I'm glad I don't have to keep defending myself and/or trying to resist responding to every goad and innuendo. I have to admit he/she/they knew how to push my buttons. (There is that new Crown Heights Prowd character, but at least he/she is identifiable.)
I've attributed the low volume to this being peak vacation time, your vacation, and the lack of really juicy things to write about, which is no one's fault, it's the middle of a scorching summer, after all.
Besides, since the registration, there have been no PLG stories! ;)
Original CHP
Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at August 3, 2006 11:31 AM
I am so, so glad you have not restricted the Forum and hope you never do. As a renovator the information I find there is invaluable and any barrier to commenting would be awful. As for the home page I don't think it affects the content that much - people who care enough seem to have signed up - interestingly enough, another board, dailyheights also added restriction and now has only a handful of people who post it - really lost its energy.
Lastly, thanks so much for providing a wonderful resource to the community.
Posted by: mimi at August 3, 2006 11:32 AM
I was under the impression that there were less posts because people were away. I've acutally been posting more since the heatwave because all I want to do is sit in my air conditioned office and not work. But the login is all good.
Posted by: yente at August 3, 2006 12:04 PM
I like the login very much, but I do wish it applied to the forum and other parts of the site as well. IMHO, anyone who can't take a few minutes one time to make an identity probably won't be missed by me.
Posted by: Amy at August 3, 2006 12:09 PM
Its an interesting question that goes right to the heart of what this website is? While this site began obviously about Brooklyn Real Estate, some of the threads that dealt with race and class made Brownstoner a facinating social experiment...Many conversations delved deeper than any face to face discourse or writing that I'm used to hearing because of the ability to post anonymously. These candid posts were pretty fun to watch, and even participate in, mostly because they were anonymous. Whether it was bashing Corcoran for being too slick or someone calling a neighborhood "sketchy", there was always some lively debate going on. I think we will lose some of the social experiment with restricted commenting, but then again, I should probably be working harder and not checking Brownstoner so much anyway.
Posted by: nryland at August 3, 2006 12:14 PM
Have no fear nryland, you can count on me for the occasional un-pc comment about a neighborhood or other social issue.
Posted by: crouchback at August 3, 2006 12:21 PM
I like it.
For one, it adds continuitity. You don't have to say, "3:48 here." As well as know, from thread to thread, who you're talking to as their opinion on one topic may inform you on where they're coming from or what they're trying to say on another.
For two, it really isn't a big deal to sign up. Two minutes tops. And it's not like people still aren't "anonymous" in most senses of the word... I still have no idea on who any of you are if I was to pass you on the sidewalk (and likewise).
For three, the discouse has seemed to have gotten less catty. I have no idea on how many threads I read previously that denigrated into, "Well, just because you're poor and live in XXXXXX neighborhood, don't be jealous of me and what I've worked for." Barf. At least people have some sort of reputation that they can be tracked by and so don't get into that nonsense.
That all said, Mr. B., I think the question is what kind of place you're trying to create. Do you like the soup that gets created from trollers who pop in, argue their point, and then find somewhere else? Or are you creating this for a more core constituency? They both have salient points and I don't think that one of them is objectively better than the other. It's a matter of taste and since this is your place, your taste.
But I like it.
Posted by: Mateo at August 3, 2006 1:09 PM
I preferred the 'bar room' atmosphere that existed prior to the login reqs. Outside of dispensing alchohol, bars serve a very important role is social affairs. Although they are privately owned, they are considered by most to be a 'public place'. People go to bars for many different reasons. Some want to get away from the family. Others want to get away with their family. While others go to bars trying to laid and in the process of trying to impress the opposite sex, end up throwing drinks and getting into a fight.
The login reqs, have turned this once public bar/blog into a private social club. Sure it only takes a couple of mins to register, but it prevents someone from dropping into your establishment for a drink. Just because a couple of folks got too drunk a couple of times, doesnt mean you have to take such a totalitarian actions.
Brownstoners, its your joint, you run the bar. If you prefer the Cheers crowd "Where everybody knows your name....," thats pretty much what you have now. If you want the Bar to be happening like it was before, drop the login reqs.
Posted by: ItAWrap at August 3, 2006 1:33 PM
I say keep it for the many good reasons already stated.
ItsaWrap, I kinda get the bar analogy, but at the pub you can't easily change your identity from minute to minute to suit your needs, or offend people anonymously.
If some of the trolls repeated what they said here in a bar, they'd likely get the crap beat out of them.
So restrict the commenting and keep the cowards away.
Posted by: Tinarina at August 3, 2006 1:41 PM
I have mixed feelings. The old system was often fun, trolls and all, but on balance there was too much BS. The trolls just kept repeating their nonsense, the low points IMO being the stupid "busted" responses a few months ago and those awful pics of mutilated bodies posted under Tiny URLs.
The sign in system can STILL be anonymous, except for those brave (or possibly dumb) enough to post under their real names,so I can't see it restricting free expression much.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at August 3, 2006 1:42 PM
"interestingly enough, another board, dailyheights also added restriction and now has only a handful of people who post it - really lost its energy."
haha. oh, the irony - it took me 10 minutes how to figure out how to log in and respond to this!!
While it's not true that "only a handful" of users post to the Daily Heights board (aka Prospect Heights board at Brooklynian.com), it is definitely less freewheeling than the newer Park Slope board, which is unrestricted and rapidly on the verge of eclipsing the volume/traffic that we are seeing on the PH board.
We locked down the PH board out of respect for our volunteer moderators, who like Brownstoner, were sick of dealing with spam and trolls. There are other solutions out there for both, but it's just a matter of getting around to it!
Posted by: dailyheights at August 3, 2006 1:42 PM
Let say someone is totally offended by something i said. Is it possible for them to self-censor or place me on "Ignore"?
If it were possible to "ignore" an individual member, would it also be possible to ignore "anonymous" posters. That way if someone feels they might be offended by an anonymous posting, they can censor themselves. ie. Call-Id and Caller-id block.
I dont see why the burden of censorship should be on your shoulders. Vulgarities, x-rated material, slanderous statements etc.. Yes. Content that is deemed provactive by some.... NO.
How can you be mad at a thread that goes 100 posts long because people are energized and excited about a certain topic?
Posted by: ItAWrap at August 3, 2006 1:58 PM
I think the problem with the idea of being able to censor anonymous comments, ItsAWrap, is then you would have a 100 comment thread that had half of the comments missing because you chose to ignore comments made by anonymous people. You would see named people responding to phantom postings and it would be a confusing mess.
Posted by: Shahn Andersen at August 3, 2006 2:30 PM
Keep it. In case you hadn't noticed no more pro- Ratner anonymous coward trolls who double and triple post.
Posted by: arnelo at August 3, 2006 2:39 PM
Keep it. In case you hadn't noticed no more pro- Ratner anonymous coward trolls who double and triple post.
Posted by: arnelo at August 3, 2006 2:40 PM
oops , sorry about that.
Posted by: arnelo at August 3, 2006 2:41 PM
Keep the log in.
If your really determined to troll, you just keep setting up new accounts.
But at least the regulars can post under their own screen name w/o the trolls claiming to be them.
(but watch the spelling of the those names when you are reading a post, as some people have picked variants)
But I think you can still post anonymously in the forum, and after some of the lame comments there, I think the forum needs sign in to respond to posts.
Posted by: Arsenic and Old Lace at August 3, 2006 2:43 PM
Keep the log in-- seems more productive all around.
As for the diminished commenting, I'm guessing that others have had the same difficulties that I'd had with signing-in in the past (I've been reading this blog from the get-go and could *never* get it to work), and have decided not to bother. I finally decided to give it another chance today, and 15 minutes later, it seems to be working.
Maybe an encouraging post along these lines will bring out some others from the woodwork??
Posted by: naomi at August 3, 2006 3:13 PM
Case in point... my e-mail address was displayed above despite the fact that I had unchecked all boxes to that effect in my registration. Am I the only one who continues to have problems with TypeKey?! I'm not a luddite, really...
Posted by: naomi at August 3, 2006 3:23 PM
Definitely keep the sign in system. The number of people who have registered since you first required it has grown and that number will likely keep going higher as time goes on. Even though all can still choose to remains anonymous under the sign in system, the use of consistent handles also helps build community. One that has a better chance of promoting diverse viewpoints in vigorous and mature debate without fear of being overidden by trolls and spammers. Going back to ItsaWrap's analogy, I'm in favor of Brownstoner as Cheers.
Posted by: Gardensgal at August 3, 2006 3:28 PM
I think we've had some really interesting, and dare I say it, important, discussions here in the past, over all kinds of topics. I think this is a valuable forum for getting the real pulse on how we as Brooklynites/New Yorkers/Americans/human beings/fill in the blank, feel about any of the issues that shape our lives. I also enjoy discussing the various houses, neighborhoods, etc, and have learned a lot about the real estate market, people's expectations, where to get things done and where to go to eat. I'm looking forward to lots more.
Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at August 3, 2006 3:35 PM
Regarding logging in, I've found that once I click to log in, I'm sent to the sign in box. When I click to sign in, I'm told I'm on, but still can't comment. I have to go to the forum, click on any of the topics, as if I was going to read and comment, and I'm always signed in there. I close that box, go back to the home page, and then I'm registered to comment here. It's a pain, but it always works so I do it out of habit now. Hopefully that will get fixed, but it's only a minor inconvience for a couple of seconds.
Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at August 3, 2006 3:42 PM
The trolls who were just trying to stir up trouble by saying a neighborhood is shady or people are jealous because they have no money were in fact, amusing. It started to get annoying when \//this\/\ schmuck took over the whole board.
Posted by: yente at August 3, 2006 3:46 PM
CHP,
I think you can fix that posting problem if you hit your refresh button when it happens. Seems to work for me.
Posted by: Gardensgal at August 3, 2006 3:58 PM
I do what gardensgal does- I refresh the page and that does it. Sometimes it your internet settings. If you don't ask the browser to automatically update the page your on, you have to do it manually.
As one of the victims of the troll I have to say I have truly enjoyed these last few weeks. I think we can still have open and lively discussions, despite the log in. But the troll was so out of control that I hated coming to the forum any longer, and I know several others felt the same. And even all of that garbage could be dealt with but posting the links to those awful pictures with my screen name was the end. A more despicable, disgusting and blog -destructive act is hard to imagine. And the pictures were horribly racist as well. CHP was also victimized- the Troll picked a name identical to hers but for one letter.What other reason would you have for picking a name so close to someone elses? It's hardly coincidental.
If the log in puts a damper on discussion then maybe too many of us hid behind anonymous when we should have had the courage of our convictions.
Posted by: Bx2Bklyn at August 3, 2006 5:34 PM
Balancing annoyance factor versus candor, I come out at 60% in favor of logging in and 40% against, on the main board. On the forum, I'd reverse those percentages, given that, by their nature, fact specific questions don't incite annoying, meandering threads among "anons".
Posted by: Archiefina at August 3, 2006 5:34 PM
Aside from having to disable cookies (at least in Firefox), I'm all for the new system. The trouble with bars and their anonymous clientele (to extend the analogy) is the drunken assholes who pound the table and spit when they talk and occasionally throw up on you!
Posted by: Brenda from Flatbush at August 3, 2006 6:37 PM
I was a former "anon." I took the time to register today. It was not bad at all.
Under the old rules it was easy to comment on the fly. This change will discourage newbies. In today's world people are afraid of committment. The key is continuing to have good content and interesting post.
Posted by: zwat at August 3, 2006 8:16 PM
In order to have a fair representation, you would have to make this post open for comments without forcing the TypeKey sign in.
As it is, you have a self-selected sample.
To me, this is the difference between Brownstone Brooklyn, and well, Brooklyn in all its crazy wild diversity. I live in Crown Heights, so my preferences are clear--do away with the TypeKey sign-in.
Posted by: Jay Datema at August 3, 2006 10:21 PM
Unfortunately, the TypeKey registration requirement is a necessary evil. With the exception of troll mayhem, I too miss the energy and vibrancy of earlier threads. But I agree with CHP; it's summer and many folks are simply away on vacation. Things should pick quite nicely again in the fall. I say keep it. Those who care enough about this blog and Brownstone Brooklyn will take the time to sign in. As for the forum, I favor the status quo.
Posted by: BrownBomber at August 3, 2006 10:51 PM
The sign in appears to have gotten rid of the nasty comments. Keep it.
Posted by: dt at August 3, 2006 11:11 PM
Jay- I live in Crown Heights too- what does that have to do with logging in? And while you may think what we had before was "Brooklyn in all its wild crazy diversity", what you really had was a large group of people who care about Brooklyn (and believe me who are a wild and crazy bunch) and one- or possibly 2- really malevolent trolls who started fights, argued with themselves, posted under at least 10 + different names as well as anonymous, and posted links to truly terrible photos using my screen name, for one. I know someone else's name was also used. People who followed those links were treated to pictures of a horribly burned black man, a beheaded Black man and a third picture I knew enough at that point not to click on. If that's your idea of a lively discussion you can have it. There's already been some pretty lively posts (just ask dreadnaught!)- but what I am not seeing, are all the racially offensive posts, and really obnoxious posts. So really, what you're complaining about is the loss of the ability to make offensive comments and false accusations behind the shield of "anonymous", or multiple names. No thank you.
Posted by: Bx2Bklyn at August 4, 2006 1:19 AM
To Bx2Bklyn--
Hello, neighbor.
What I'm complaining about is using TypeKey as the centralized architecture, since it's often down and tied to a company (see:
http://mamamusings.net/archives/2006/07/12/sixaparts_lousy_timing.php
http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/001382.html.)
I previously recommended Akismet, which has a plugin for Movable Type. This removes the login requirement, but can allow the site owner to moderate comments before they appear and does a great job killing spam.
The Crown Heights reference was simply meant to convey that there's a tension on the Brownstoner site between a backyard BBQ and a block party. My taste for the site runs more towards block party than BBQ, that's all. You often learn more from your enemies than those you agree with.
And I didn't run across any of the visual horrors you mention, though I did gawk at some of the troll-fests. If my login name was used by someone else, perhaps I'd feel differently, too.
As Brownstoner's renovation has completed, my interest in the site has run towards the forums. There's some truly good information in there--a source unduplicated elsewhere.
Posted by: Jay Datema at August 4, 2006 10:16 AM
Hi Jay, it's always nice to meet neighbors- even in cyberspace. Thanks for clarifying your post- I honestly don't care how we accomplish keeping out the trolls- whatever works.What it does sound like to me is Akismet could mean a lot more work for Mr. B. And how would that work? Would there be a time delay before posts appear?
As a veteran of the troll fest wars I am probably more touchy about this than most others. CHProud was really raked over the coals too- and who knows how many others. We wound up fighting the troll instead of having good, lively threads. But if you think about it and look back, the trolls got bad in the last couple of months. Despite the PLG bashing, many of the regular posters had very very lively discussions (I think Brownbomber & dreadnaught can vouch for that), and used our names.
So I don't know what the answer is- I imagine you could register as "anon" and at least we could keep them all straight (anon 1, anon 2, etc.) My biggest concern was that Brownstoner was becoming all about entertaining the troll. Not good.
Let's see what happens. I still think the troll is still very much around-isn't that so, crownheightsPROWD?
Posted by: Bx2Bklyn at August 4, 2006 12:18 PM
i dig it.
Posted by: suzy at August 5, 2006 2:59 AM
As long as the registration program is functional, there is no question in my mind that requiring its use improves this blog immensely. People have to be more responsible with what they say, and eliminating that rediculous troll is extremely helpful.
If things are more tame lately, I blame that on Typekey issues, the summer weather, the lack of the troll (which is ultimately a good thing) and burnout from all the craziness that this site has seen in the last few months.
Posted by: Ed at August 6, 2006 12:26 AM
Post a comment
Please be patient while your comment is published. It may take a moment.