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August 16, 2006

That Was Quick: 236 Dean Snapped Up

house Yowza! Guess the market can't be that weak. We just got a tip that the brick beauty at 236 Dean that we wrote about last week has already been snatched up. From our tipster: "There were 6 bids for 236 Dean in one week and it went for 1.8 in cold cash from a city buyer." This should not be a big surprise: We, along with most of the commenters, were quite bullish on this place. We also got some more deets on the condition: "It was rock solid on the inside, though only about 70% completed and with no plumbing." Very interesting indeed.
ect. Really beautiful though.
Mid-Stream in Boerum Hill [Brownstoner]
Boerum Hill Masterpiece [NY Times] GMAP P*Shark

Comments

They were smart to sell prior to the completion of the Atlantic Yards project. It's worth a lot more now than it will be then.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 9:35 AM

Heh. Maybe RATner bought it?

Posted by: Morkfrombrooklyn at August 16, 2006 9:43 AM

I've had it with the word "deets".

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 9:46 AM

Does that mean that there is a flight to quality? That there are still flush, frustrated Manhattan buyers who recognize quality buildings and are willing to pay up? 6 bids... Great. Even if the new buyers have to deal with construction....

Posted by: donatella at August 16, 2006 9:58 AM

Re: Anonymous 8.57 AM's post, I'm wonderingt what other posters think about the impact of Atlantic Yards on brownstone values in adjacent areas (Ft. Greene, Boerum Hill, Park Slope). I think Atlantic Yards will erode quality of life advantages that Brooklyn has had over Manhattan (i.e. increase traffic _ density etc). This will push ahead the Manhtattanization of Brooklyn. However, it seems like the Manhattanization of Brooklyn implies that Brownstone prices will increase. People seem to pay for proximity to certain amenities (i.e. the Arena, add -ons to BAM cultural district.

Posted by: Tony at August 16, 2006 9:58 AM

AY's will only lead to increased value of these areas in the long run unless you are right on top of the AY site, which this property is not.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 9:59 AM

I do wonder what AY's impact will be on Boerum Hill. It seems like the greater impact will be on the neighborhoods to the west.

Posted by: Wally at August 16, 2006 10:08 AM

6 offers and they couldnt even get asking price?

Posted by: ItAWrap at August 16, 2006 10:09 AM

Seems misleading automatically to refer to unrestrained development of this kind as "Manhattanization". Otherwise, we might as well talk about how the Manhattanization of Newark is going to lead to higher property values there. Not.

The infrastructure of a large chunk of Brooklyn...the subways, the roads, sidwalks, intersections, etc....are going to be so overwhelmed once this project is completed that it will not be easy to "take it in stride". I actually think that a few areas, including the ones mentioned in the first post above, will pay a heavy price. Boerum Hill will not be a very pleasant place to live when this project is complete...mark my words. It's a damned shame.

If this project has a positive effect on any property values, I suspect that it will be in areas further out...places like Ditmas Park and PLG. People will want to get away from the mess created by Atlantic Yards, and I suspect they'll turn to these nabes.

Park Slope will also pay a toll. I don't know if you've walked around Park Slope lately, but it's already uncomfortably crowded. Its relatively narrow sidewalks were not designed to handle the amount of foot traffic it has now. Consequently it's a pain in the behind just to walk around there.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 10:21 AM

Of course info is all from 'tipster' so whole thing could be bogus but I think almost any buyer would except 3% less than asking for 'cold cash' -whereas I'm inferring no mortgage contingency then full price from buyer that might not get all the financing required. Remember this is house in midst of construction - and from by experience not a plus to lenders/appraisers.
As far as AY not sure why commentor think neighborhoods to west will be effected most. As to values will make little if any difference plus or minus.

Posted by: petebklyn at August 16, 2006 10:25 AM

The sky is falling....the sky is falling!!!!

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 10:25 AM

I think AY may be a bit like Y2K. People are panicking now, but when all is said and done, it won't be the end of the world. Terrible while the construction is going on, but I have a feeling it will be fine for property values in the long run. And yes, I am against the project, but I don't think the sky is falling.

Posted by: Yente at August 16, 2006 10:26 AM

Yente, I think your attitude is the right one because there's nothing we can do to stop it now. Even if AY will have a negative impact on the community and on property values, there's no point in getting upset about it now. It's a done deal.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 10:30 AM

6 bids...no bidding war...couldn't get asking...boy times have changed.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 10:33 AM

I guess we won't know until we get there but I can't see anyone wanting to live close to an arena- especially on game night. It's one thing to be able to go nearby- like MSG- another to deal with pre and post game fans.

FYI- early on someone did yet another financial analysis of revenues need to make the arena profitable and found that the arena would have to be in use over 300+ nights a year. DOn't know how accurate that was, but if I was a homeowner in that area I would be really unhappy.

Posted by: jennyanne at August 16, 2006 10:34 AM

Doomsday was predicted for the Upper Westside too after the construction of Lincoln Center. What happened? The nabe flourished! Give me a break. No intelligent person is buying into your doomsday rhetoric. Brooklyn will continue to thrive, with or without AY. In my book, AY, BAM cultural district and Downtown Dev. Plan will enhance the borough's appeal immensely. Only a fool sells because of AY and only a bigger fool attempts to block the project for fear that it will hurt property values in the area.

Posted by: SuperAnon at August 16, 2006 10:37 AM

10:33- It's not quite the done deal you think. Yente is right. The sky isn't falling- there are no wmds. But being prepared for any eventuality is the smartest thing to do, not throw up your hands and say, nothing can be done. A negative impact will be disastrous- because it will spread out from there.

Posted by: jennyanne at August 16, 2006 10:39 AM

As a Boerummer, I think think the AY's impact is going to be felt most in the increased traffic. More cars pulling off Atlanitc and flatbush looking for sidestreets. Also, at issue are those cute little boutiques on Atlantic. Will they be driven out by increase rents?

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 10:39 AM

Yes AY is too big - way too big. But there is NOTHING worth saving in the area where the project is going up. BLIGHT! Size not withstanding, it will only improve the area.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 10:54 AM

Regarding last week's AY post on shadows, I've been living in the area all of my life and have yet to hear anyone complain about the Williamsburg Savings Bank Tower oppressive shadow. Is there one? I would assume that there is a footprint but folks in Fort Greene appear to be getting along pretty well despite living next to this out of context building. Look on the bright side, with AY the WSBT will no longer be out of context and a past wrong would be corrected!

Posted by: SuperAnon at August 16, 2006 11:12 AM

Hear Hear!

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 11:16 AM

why is WSBT (one hanson) a past wrong? that's a beautiful building indeed.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 11:17 AM

Beautiful building but out of context with the surrounding low rise community.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 11:23 AM

i see what you're saying, but i always thought that was kind of its charm, its singularity. as a longtime admirer of fort greene, i was smitten when i saw they were turning those dentists offices into condos. by being the one tall building in the area, those views are really amazing.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 11:26 AM

The Bank is like a big sun dial with the shadow circling around the neighborhood. There's no oppressive shadow, unless you are right under the building. With six blocks of high-rise buildings, AY will cast a more defined shadow.

Forget about the shadows, i'm more concerned about the glare. Most of the buildings have reflective surfaces. On a bluebird day like to today, the glare could be overwhelming. Sunglasses and sunblock...

Posted by: ItAWrap at August 16, 2006 11:33 AM

if AY goes up as planned, Atlantic Yards is destined to look like the Holland Tunnel approach road. choking any charm the Avenue currently has.

if smarter development goes up instead, the whole neighborhood will skyrocket.

Posted by: chuck at August 16, 2006 11:34 AM

Glare? Yes, Manhattan is unbeareable during those bluebird days of summer....

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 11:37 AM

Charm on Atlantic Avenue? What charm? Smarter development? Okay, shoot. I'm all ears.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 11:40 AM

I was inside this property on the house tour.
Its stunning. Underconstruction yes, but the new owners have a jem.

Posted by: chopper at August 16, 2006 11:59 AM

Between 3rd and down to the BQE, Atlantic Ave. has really changed, and yes, it is charming.

Posted by: jennyanne at August 16, 2006 12:24 PM

that's definitely true, there are some really cool cafes, boutiques and furniture stores on Atlantic these days. Doar and Hollander and Lexor are especially dope.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 12:33 PM

AY is east of Flatbush. Let's talk about Atlantic Avenue east of Flatbush. What's charming about the section of Atlantic Avenue in Fort Greene and Clinton Hill? What's there now? What's being replaced or displaced? What's worth saving? There are no cafes, shops or restaurants. Just a huge railyard, empty warehouses, gas stations and auto chop shops. It's urban blight, pure and simple. The armpit of Brooklyn. It needs to go.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 12:49 PM

i made the earlier comment about cool boutiques etc. on atlantic, but i completely agree with you, 12:49, about the makeup of the street east of flatbush.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 12:55 PM

Yes, there are cute as cute boutiques but will rents rise and push them out in the wake AY?

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 1:51 PM

Rising rents equate rising property values. I thought AY would be bad for property values. Not?

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 1:58 PM

By my count, three houses within a block of one another in Boerum Hill have gone to contract within the past 2-3 weeks. 236 Dean listed at $1.85 mm, house on Bond (between Dean + Pacific listed) by Corcoran at $1.625 mm, house on Pacific (between Hoyt + Nevins) listed by Corcoran at $1.495 mm. Two other houses on Dean (between Bond + Nevins)still on market. Seems like a lot of activity.

Posted by: Tony at August 16, 2006 4:25 PM

Tony: all these houses went for asking? I doubt it.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 4:33 PM

4:33pm. sounds like you're hating.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 4:36 PM

There is no real definition of blight in the law. So why, just because it isn't pretty, would an economically active business area and gentrifying neighborhood constitute blight? Because it's an affront to your rarified aesthetics? If you wanted to see blight you should see what blight really looks like- blocks of burned out buildings, groups of empty lots used as garbage dumps, hookers and dealers everywhere. You have no idea. You think it's bad today? There were neighborhoods that were wastelands- the AY is an industrial area and as such still has a good number of viable business that will be lost, homeowners and tenants that will be pushed out, public streets that will be closed off. So don't use "blight" as the excuse to give Ratner a free pass. And don't substitute being visually offended for legitmate reasons to build. ANd there are many good reasons-but none need to be that large or disruptive or destructive of the surrounding neighborhoods.

Posted by: jennyanne at August 16, 2006 5:01 PM

No hate. Just curious.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 5:12 PM

I think he meant "baiting" but I didn't think you were doing that either.

Posted by: jennyanne at August 16, 2006 5:20 PM

I think he/she meant "hating"---because it sounded like the first poster was *hoping* that the sellers were less than totally happy with the sale. Maybe it's not hate-- just schaudenfreude.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 5:55 PM

It actually is "Schadenfreude"

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 6:34 PM

What a lot of people are missing is that this is a stadium in the middle of an urban environment.

look at giants, yankee, or mets stadium. at least there are highways near there. this is a stadium in this middle of pedestrian-ville. It's going to be a nightmare, and will change the charm of at least fort greene.

Posted by: anonymous at August 16, 2006 7:57 PM

Anon 7:57, do you know the fundamental difference between an arena and a stadium? Clearly not. Basketball and hockey are played in arenas not stadiums. What's the difference? Arenas have roughly 20k seats while stadiums are between 50k (e.g., baseball) - 110k (e.g., football and soccer). My eight year old son knows the difference - why don't you? Obviously you're trying to fan the flames and play to people's worst fears about AY and so called traffic problems. In NYC there is traffic issues everywhere, especially at peak times - whether you’re in midtown, uptown or downtown; Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx or Manhattan; NJT, 287, 495 or the Major Deegan. There’s traffic everywhere! New Yorkers deal with it and move on! If you are attempting to find a traffic free environment for a sport venue in NYC then you’re simply not going to build one within the City proper. Who are you kidding? Furthermore, can I share with you a lovely secret? Flatbush Avenue always had and always will have traffic issues and congestion – with or without AY. So get over it. Use an alternative route like everyone else and stop whining like you just dropped onto Plymouth Rock. The Brooklyn Nets will play in an arena similar to the size of Madison Square Garden. Like AY, MSG lies in an urban environment with great public transportation access. For crying out loud, sport venues in urban environments are not a novel concept - been there, done that (see Boston, Chicago, Miami and Philly). Furthermore, sport venues are hardly noticeable if you blend them into a larger development, e.g., Penn Station and office buildings at MSG. Though AY is not perfect, it’s a start and the plans will improve overtime. With that being said, the traffic argument is utter non-sense. The vast majority of fans will attend Nets games at AY as do fans at the Garden - they will take the train, bus and taxi. If you live in Brooklyn and work on Wall Street, you simply take the train to MSG and then home again to Brooklyn. If you live in Manhattan and are a Nets fan you would simply do the reverse. Either commute takes roughly 10 – 20 minutes and cost a paltry $2. As we do with the other sport teams in NYC, smart people (the vast majority) leave work, grab a drink or earlier dinner with friends and business colleagues and then we take public transportation to the games. This is Common Sense 101…..

Posted by: SuperAnon at August 16, 2006 9:10 PM

WTF SuperAnon, are you on Ratner's payroll, a shill planted to haunt the corridors of Brownstoner.com? It definitely looks like AY will be built and maybe it will turn out to have great consequences. Who knows? But what's with all the venom? Why are you so caustic and hateful? You sound like Bx2bklyn.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 9:53 PM

Common Sense 101 has nothing to do with the AY project. And common sense would also tell you that there are some major differences between the MSG area and the AY., not the least of which is that area of Manhattan is served by a number of subway, bus and train lines, from Jersey, upstate and the Island. Notice I said Manhattan because the much touted "hub" at Atlantic Ave. is where a number of far flung trains actually meet, while Manhattan is filled with train and bus lines, and a myriad of stations. Most of the surrounding streets in the AY area are old and narrower than in Manhattan, and the size and scope of the project is way out of scale for what the area can handle. Let me tell you a sweet little secret too- yes Flatbush has traffic issues. Only a fool would think they won't get exponentially worse with the arena.But don't let me dissuade you from your position. When you're stuck in horrific traffic, packed like a sardine on a train, and drunk fans are screaming in the street and pissing on your front steps, then tell us what common snese says about the difference between an arena and a stadium is. (kudos to your 8 yr old- but shouldn't he be learning something more important than the difference between a stadium and an arena?)

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 10:01 PM

Transportation options to Atlantic Yards/Downtown Brooklyn (all within 5 minute walk to proposed Nets arena site): Subway Lines A, B, C, D, F, G, M, N, Q, R, 2, 3, 4, 5; LIRR; Bus Lines 25, 26, 37, 38, 41, 45, 52, 63, 65, 67, 103 (and numerous bus and train transfers thereto); and Car Routes - Belt Pkwy to Atlantic Ave, BQE to Atlantic, Flatbush or Kent Aves; Jackie Robinson Pkwy to Atlantic Ave; 495 to BQE; Midtown Tunnel to BQE; Brooklyn Bridge to Atlantic Ave; Manhattan Bridge to Flatbush Ave; Brooklyn Battery Tunnel to Hamilton Ave to Atlantic; Prospect Expwy to BQE to Atlantic; Eastern Pkwy to Flatbush; and Ocean Pkwy to Prospect PK SW. Also major thruways: 3rd and 4th Avenues and Empire Blvd. The options are innumerable! Please stop with the excuses. AY is convenient to almost everyone in Brooklyn, Queens and Manhattan!!

Posted by: Anonymous at August 16, 2006 10:27 PM

sorry to debase the intellectual quality of this debate, but the real question regarding AY is whether the legions of died in the wool brooklyn based knick fans will suddenly shift their battle hardened allegience to a contrived local franchise. ratner has recently tried to sell off a quarter of his share in the team. that tells me that he may be starting to question the viability of AY's cornerstone - the basketball team.

Posted by: franz fanonymous at August 16, 2006 11:53 PM

The argument, anon at 10:27, is that they are claiming it's much more convenient to take public transportation to the arena. You, however have just pointed out how convenient it is for cars. We all know there are options- the idea was which options were "better."

Franz- that's really interesting. So what happens to his rationale for the arena then? And Will Bklyn Knicks fans change their loyalty? FOr a Jersey team? I don't think so- they're still pissed at the Dodgers for deserting, and no one forgives Jersey for stealing the Jets and the Giants. Long long memories in NYC fans. IMHO :-)

Posted by: jennyanne at August 17, 2006 12:33 AM

Franz and Jenny, are you kidding me?!? Will Brooklyn support the Nets?!? You guys obviously know nothing about sports, basketball or a little thing called "Brooklyn Pride"! The Brooklyn Nets (and surely the Devils too) will be one of the most successful sport franchises in the country, if not the world. Every sport writer in town has stated this obvious fact! Every business person who is involved in pro sport management has stated this obvious fact! But now two renowned sport pundits, Franz and Jennyanne, are predicting that Brooklyn will not support the Nets! Ha ha ha! Do guys even you read the sport pages? The Nets will be sold out for many many years. What happened when the Mets joined MLB or the Jets joined the NFL? Did New Yorkers not support these franchises? Know your history.

"No one forgives Jersey for stealing the Jets and the Giants. Long long memories in NYC fans. IMHO :-)"

Ha ha ha ha!! Are you serious? The Jets and Giants are still NY's team and are overwhelmingly supported by New Yorkers! Despite playing across the river, no one on this planet, including the league, team owners or players consider them New Jersey teams (it's not even part of the team name). When the Giants win the Super Bowl where's the parade, in Downtown Newark? No, it's in New York on Broadway! You just shot yourself in the foot with this absurd statement and made it obvious to everyone on this board that you are clueless. Please, no more commentary from you two. It's embarassing... :-(

Posted by: SuperAnon at August 17, 2006 5:54 AM

Awesome! Brownstoner is back! Finally some life on this board again!

Posted by: Anon at August 17, 2006 7:46 AM

No- just the insults and idiotic commentary. - Superanon. You definitely prove the axiom, if you don't have a good argument, bait, insult and distract.Frankly there isn't anything super about you at all.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 17, 2006 11:12 AM

So much for being allowed to have your own opinion in this country. When did you become such an opinion-nazi, superanon? And how is it you're incapable of responding except by insults and sarcasm? Have a different opinion than I do? Fine- how about responding like a grown-up instead of a 5 year old?

Posted by: jennyanne at August 17, 2006 1:04 PM

Huh? I simply destroyed your argument. Put forth a better argument and perhaps next time you won't feel so insulted. IMHO, you insulted yourself by making such ridiculous assertions.

Posted by: SuperAnon at August 17, 2006 1:38 PM

You can't destroy anything because rants and self-satisfied, egomaniacal crowing do not constitute a valid contribution to a debate, despite what you may believe. Frankly it's not worth my time to even discuss it with you because you are incapable of being mature, respectful or even intelligent about it. This thread's done for me. Rant away s.anon- make all the noise you're capable of. And that's all it is- noise.

Posted by: jennyanne at August 17, 2006 2:45 PM

superanon - the fact that you posted that semi-coherent drivel at 5:54 in the morning arouses in me sincere concern for your mental condition. i can see you now, sitting in the same room you grew up in somewhere in canarsie, bathed in the sickly pre-dawn glow of your computer screen, surfing brownstoner, typing with frenzied, pathological zeal. that's some disturbing shit. get some sleep man, the internet is open 24 hours. and that's fucked up what you did to jonbenet ramsey too.

Posted by: franz fanonymous at August 17, 2006 4:33 PM

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August 16, 2006

That Was Quick: 236 Dean Snapped Up

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