« Name That Red Hook Development Site Monday Linkage »

August 25, 2006

Open House Picks

housePark Slope
144 St. John's Place
Brown Harris Stevens
Sunday 2-4
$2,495,000
GMAP P*Shark

houseBoerum Hill
130 Dean Street
Prudential Douglas Elliman
Sunday 12-2
$2,100,000
GMAP P*Shark

houseCarroll Gardens
40 Third Place
Corcoran
Sunday 11:30-1
$1,995,000
GMAP P*Shark

houseFort Greene
191 Washington Park
FSBO
Sunday 12-3
$1,900,000
GMAP P*Shark




Comments

each of them looks not half as nice as mine if we compare layout, kitchens, bathrooms, original details, location.
And we paid 40% less than the cheapest of those less then 2 years ago in prime PS.
This is speaking of THE bubble. How much it should deflate that we will be at loss?
If prices will decrease by 10-15% we are still ahead (plus rising rental income too).

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 12:08 PM

The St Johns house looks beautiful. I which I could afford it..

Posted by: Rachel at August 25, 2006 12:17 PM

Are there any non millionares visiting this site besides myself?
How about a few open houses under a million once in a while.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 12:20 PM

why to work it Douglas Elliman's James Kerby on the Boerum Hill property:

"Recently cited as "Brooklyn's Film Colony" by the NY Times, this area has attracted a great mix of celebrities and families..."

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 12:22 PM

Okay, so yesterday, Brownstoner had our knickers in a bunch over that house in Boerum Hill asking 2.4...now there's another lesser Boerum porperty asking 2.1! For some reason people are really digging this neighborhood.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 12:29 PM

Only one of these houses are in Park Slope.. If my calculations are correct, you paid a little over $1mil.. Two years ago, prime park Slope house were fetching is the very high $1mil. to low $2mil. range. Clearly you are not in "prime Park Slope or possibly you stole the house You could not getting anything just above $1mil. Something is either wrong with your math or your definition of prime is not in the majority

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 12:30 PM

Anon 12:20--Mr. B has spent at least half this summer finding less expensive properties to feature. I suggest you check the archives.

Anon 12:22, As someone who works in the film business, I can't tell you how disgusted I am by the way these brokers are using "celebrities" to market the neighborhood. What do these people think? That if they buy in Boerum Hill, Heath Ledger will come to their house for a barbecue? Or better yet, they spot him at a local restaurant and somehow that makes them feel better about overpaying for their brownstone? So Emily Mortimer and Alessandro Nivola just moved into the hood. I defy the average person to even recognize when they see them. It's abominable.

Posted by: west at August 25, 2006 12:31 PM

12:20, i feel your pain. occassionally he finds a good house for a modest price, these selections seem to belie the downmarket we're supposed to be in. we may have to start a site for those of more modest means, call it vinylsider.com?

Posted by: Jimmy Legs at August 25, 2006 12:33 PM

Fort Greene is the best thing on the market is ages!

Bidding war no doubt.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 12:37 PM

"As someone who works in the film business...can't tell you how disgusted I am by the way these brokers are using "celebrities" to market the neighborhood....It's abominable."

thou doth protest too much.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 12:45 PM

Re: prices, if anything we've been emphasizing the under-$1 million houses in recent months to the exclusion of ones like these. These one's just grabbed us this week.

Posted by: brownstoner at August 25, 2006 12:46 PM

the house on dean will need a conversion and seems way over priced. also across from school yard and extrememly noising during the day and on street parking hard

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 12:49 PM

there are 2 1-bdrm open houses at 121 pacific this sunday that i think are worth seeing. no, i'm not the seller (or the real estate agent) but i did just buy a 1 bdrm in the building. i stuck my head in both the places on the market (i think listed by corcoran) last weekend, and liked both a lot. both are lofts, with lots of potential.

Posted by: srl at August 25, 2006 12:58 PM

Re: Fort Greene house. anon 12:37. It has some nice detail, and great location, but for 1 million, 9 hundred thousand dollars (!!!!) I don't want to have to convert it into something else in order for it to work for me. If it was a duplex or even triplex with rentals, you might have a point, but now, in this market, I don't think so. But as a 4 family - doubtful, from my position as a watcher, not a buyer in the market.

Posted by: Crown Heights Proud at August 25, 2006 12:58 PM

Crown Heights Proud, you my friend, are out of touch. Fort Greene is a total catch and the 1.9 is just a starting offer to get the ball rolling. I'm guessing they get at least 2.1

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 1:03 PM

Hey, been wrong plenty of times before, have no problem admitting it again, if true.

Just thinking that if I had a mil, nine, I could buy a fully detailed, better house somewhere else, and still have money left to do some major renovations and interior decor. But that's me. This could be a major coup for someone with deep, deep pockets.

Buona fortuna!

Posted by: Crown Heights Proud at August 25, 2006 1:09 PM

CHP, that has to be the owner posting about that house. There is just no way - Who would pay near $2 m for a kitchen like that? Give me a break.

Posted by: Anon at August 25, 2006 1:12 PM

Those CHP's who sign in are real, all others mere shadows.

I'm flattered. About as much as Louis Vuitton is by counterfits sold on the street.

Posted by: Crown Heights Proud at August 25, 2006 1:13 PM

How much do you think it would cost to convert the Park Slope house into a single-family?

Posted by: Mona at August 25, 2006 1:18 PM


The Fort Green house will end up selling for 1.5 - 1.6 mill.

It takes a lot of time and money to build a beautiful duplex or Tripplex. Also, being directly on Fort Green park means noise from traffic.

When I finally pull the trigger, I want a side street near a park. I also hope to get a good enough price and have enough stashed aways that I won't need to have any tenants.

I'm a real estate manager/owner by profession, and the last thing I want is a tenant living above or below me.

Posted by: Malphious at August 25, 2006 1:22 PM


Check out the crazy backyard photo of the Carroll Gardens house. It looks like a giant, hairy, green vagina.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 1:30 PM

The Park Slope house (the best of the lot) has exactly the same woodwork and layout as my aunt's house in Bed Stuy. Interesting.

In answer to Mona, who knows, you'd have to see what the rest looks like, but you'd have to take out two kitchens, tear out some walls, put new walls up, perhaps. If you decide you want to move the main kitchen, or the location of the master bedroom, or living room, there's that to consider as well. You might want a new kitchen and several new bathrooms, while you're at it. Assuming there's nothing majorly wrong with the infrastructure of the house, like wiring, plumbing, etc, I would expect all of it to jack up the total to around 2.8 or 9. That's assuming you go top of the line, in workmanship, materials and appliances/fixtures. Just my $.02.

Posted by: Crown Heights Proud at August 25, 2006 1:31 PM

why would anyone buy right now? makes no sense we are headed into a terrible recession because of this whole housing nonsense.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 1:33 PM

Malphious, me thinks you need to go back to real estate management school...
A) being across the park is a huge asset
B) having tenants is a major plus for most people
C)when you finally pull the trigger and buy a place...sounds fitting, because you WILL need a gun because you'll be buy in a really crappy neighborhood.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 1:35 PM

Who wants to live on a street called "THIRD PLACE"

Posted by: imby at August 25, 2006 1:42 PM

Economic troubles are very close, those $5 lattes are in the past along with appreciating housing prices, i just hope we don't have a Savings and loan crisis that we had in the past. Banks like Countrywide and many other smaller Savings banks gave out a lot of Shady financing. About 50% of the people who bought homes in the last 5 years would never have qualified under normal terms.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 1:48 PM

If you buy now then who have no sense of what an investment is, even if you are going to live in the home.

Posted by: ron at August 25, 2006 1:49 PM

12:30
re: prime PS.
OK, I could correct myself. My house has a better location then 144 St John's Place in Park Slope. It is not on the "named" street but above 7th ave.
And while we were about to go into contract we briefly considered other house less then half block to the park on 8th street, big, lots of original details - asking price was 1.2 million.
Three months before we found our house we gave an offer on five family on third street between 7 and 6. Asking price was 1.6 and our offer was accepted on 1.5 House was in a good condition, three appartments needed renovation but mostly cosmetics. We had to put down 25% which was an issue for us.

Probably you did not look at that time (2004) otherwise you would know better

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 1:50 PM

Looking for value? Here's a tip: look in north Crown Heights before Landmark District Designation kicks in, and before Ratner is finished. Especially Dean Street and the area around Brower Park.

Crown Heights north will benefit econimcally from Ratner's project, even if areas outside the Landmark District suffer aesthetically, and from higher density.

Full disclosure: I bought in Crown Heights four years ago and comparables today are up in value considerably.

Posted by: Hal at August 25, 2006 1:51 PM

As the owner of 191 I am flattered and amused by the range of opinions and the debate on the merits of the Ft. Greene listing. I love the neighborhood and welcome everyone (especially anon) to come for lemonade on Sunday to decide for yourself. Thanks to all for their comments.

Posted by: 191 at August 25, 2006 1:52 PM

I will be really curious to see how the FG house plays out-- whether they get asking, above, or below. Keep us posted, please, Mr. B.!
thanks- a loyal reader

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 1:52 PM

OK what is all this stuff about traffic noise on Washington Park...it's totally quiet on that street...scarily so sometimes...

Two house in FG have sold in excess of 2.35MM in the past month which, while bigger houses, require an enormous amount of work...so $1.9MM directly accross from the park looks like an ok deal albeit needing a lot of work...

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 1:52 PM

Two other 3rd Place houses of comparable size/set up sold this year, both between Clinton and Court; both, I think, in the $1.3 - $1.4 range. Hard to see $1.995 for the same thing, more exposed to the BQE down by Henry.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 1:58 PM

anyone know what's going on with the $4MM listing on Washington Park? The listing was featured on this site a while ago...

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 1:59 PM

i rented on washington park last winter and loved it. (the park has great sledding.) we bought in clinton hill, but i would have loved to stay on the park. there is no noise from traffic. also, there's good parking, most of the time.

Posted by: judson at August 25, 2006 2:02 PM

To the person making the Third Street house comparison between 6th and 7th, compare the size of this house to the one on St Johns. You are looking strictly at "price". Most of the houses on Third Street on this block are only 45 feet deep and lack extensions.

8th Street is the worst of the park Block streets.. lacks any integrity horrbile

Posted by: betsy at August 25, 2006 2:05 PM

St. Johns Place is a great location and from the (only) two pix, looks to be in good condition. BUT - only one bath in the owners duplex? Entry to the 3rd bedroom only through the bathroom? No apparent entry to the garden from garden level, altho it may be that it is just not indicated on the floor plan. A beautiful huge dining room but a relatively small kitchen. Even if I were keeping this as a 3 family, I would want to do a good amount of reconfiguring of the duplex to make it work better. Quite pricey when you add in the reno cost.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 2:08 PM

I went to an open house for 40 Third Place back in the summer of 2003. I think the house was offered at $1.2 million at the time. It didn't sell at that price and the owner rented it out. Hard to justify it being offered almost 70% higher now. The kitchen + bathrooms still need updating.

Posted by: Tony at August 25, 2006 2:12 PM

And not to get into the which is better: So. Portland or Washington Park debate again, but Washington Park is a phenomenal street. All of the neighbors know one another and look out for one another, the street is quiet, parking is ample, the light we get is amazing from not having other brownstones directly across the street. Besides all those benefits, it's nice to sit in the parlor floor and look out the windows at the park - there's no better view in Brooklyn!

As for the $1.9 pricetag: location, location, location. Sure the house needs work but it would be perfect to take one floor and rent out the other three and as rental money rolls in, use that to renovate and take it over. Seems to make sense to me especially if you're looking for a longterm investment.

Posted by: parkblocker at August 25, 2006 2:15 PM

wassup peoples

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 2:19 PM

the 4mm house on washington park is a joke - should be just shy of 3mm, no central air, nothing really special about the house. the 1.9mm seems ok, if drops too low would be a good buy.
i used to own on the park but didnt like the foot traffic = trash on my sidewalk so i move to sidestreet.

but it is not noisy except in summer when people bbq and blast music.

love fg - i think best place in the bk.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 2:25 PM

I have to disagree with 2:25 about the 4MM Wash.Park House. It was indeed something special - a meticulously, wonderfully, restored one family gem. There's more to the good life than central air conditioning. It was a rare beauty, and I tip my hat to the owners for a job well done.

Someone show me a house in Brooklyn that doesn't have foot traffic, occasional noise, or trash on the street.

Posted by: Crown Heights Proud at August 25, 2006 2:30 PM

You may be right parkblocker...if they chop a couple hundred K off the price...but you had better have a good rent roll.

Posted by: Anon at August 25, 2006 2:32 PM

Re: third street 45 deep.

That house was more then 50 feet deep and 22 feet wide. 14 feet ceiling on the second floor.
It is pointless to argue. It seems that you have no idea about the subject. I can suggest propertyshark as a starting point if you want to learn more.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 2:33 PM


Unfortunately for all you sellers of 2 million brownstones,unfortunately, right now there are very few people willing to spend that kind of money.
You'll need to drop your prices by at least 25% to 35% before you get any real offers.

Sorry, but it's the truth.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 2:41 PM

yep no buyers of $2MM brownstones...wall street bonuses are going to be up 25-35% AGAIN this year and with mortgage rates where they are you can forget significant price declines...

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 2:47 PM


Anon 2:47:

Have you seen the latest stats or talked to any brokers lately? I didn't say nobody has the money -- of course some people do. In fact, even I do. Folks who make lots of money usually aren't idiots. The real estate market in NYC is changing fundamentally and everyone can see it.

You're either a broker or a delusional owner if you don't admit what's happening.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 3:03 PM

I've been looking in the FG market for quite awhile now and can't recall which properties sold for over $2.3 million. Would someone please remind me?

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 3:18 PM

From one broker who hopefully is not considered delusional.. I have sold and or listed seven houses this year North of $2mil.. If the house is priced correctly it will sell.

You have to remember that new buyers are not all "first time purchasers". We have customers selling in the Village, SOHO, UWS, etc., they have to put their money back in the housing market otherwise they get killed on capital gains and loose most of their write-offs. We could do many more deals in the mid $2mil. to high $2mil. range if we had good product which required little work..

By the way, the lower duplex on St Johns actually has 1.5 baths, just not reflected on the floor plan

Posted by: Charlie Ruoff at August 25, 2006 3:20 PM

Well, my personal opinion is that if you have the money to buy the house in the first place, then reason has a tendency to fly out the window - it's so emotional the attachment that sometimes, even if it's a stretch, people will find a way to do it. That said, there are so few brownstones (rarely do people build new ones and the ones that are built feel new), that I can't imagine it not being a good move to buy something that's a limited commodity. I will concede that there is a shift happening but frankly, it looks to me that it's the Heights and Park Slope with their $5M pricetags that're really getting hit while places like Fort Greene are looking more affordable and therefore a better buy.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 3:24 PM

I love how angry people get about these debates. Cracks me up. Must be something else angering people (wanting to sell in the future and wanting a good price, not buying a few years ago and angry now, not being able to afford something in their preferred neighborhood, people with chips on their shoulder, pick your motive...).

Posted by: lp at August 25, 2006 3:24 PM

For the broker that posted about current owners having to put their money back into housing - not quite. You are subject to capital gains AND NYS and NYC income taxes on anything above your exclusion whether you roll the entire amount into a new property or not.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 3:48 PM

The Wall St. bonus argument didn't do much this year, and it won't again (and remember, bonuses are just projected right now, not promised, and as far as real estate goes, they are MILES away on the horizon). There are few buyers left...even these hedge fund guys don't need 6 brownstones a piece.

Posted by: Anon at August 25, 2006 3:49 PM

To anon at 1:30:

Methinks you have not seen a vagina in a while!

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 4:00 PM

anon at 3:18...10 South Oxford sold for 2.35...isn't in shark yet as it hasn't closed....there's another one somewhere too either oxford/portland that went for 2.3-2.4...

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 4:11 PM

Ah, yes. Crown Heights is in the house. Perhaps, CHP, you haven't been to the park lately... it's changed since 1977. That said, I can't imagine why people are so divided on the park. There are way more muggings and murders in Prospect Park and loads of shady dealings go on in Central Park and people still covet apartments and houses there... I just don't get the bad p.r.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 4:16 PM

The Washington Park house seems to me to be a mixed bag. It is in a good location but is split into four units, none of which seem to have new kitchens. It would take a good amount of work and money to turn it into a one or two family house, which is definitely a risk in an uncertain real estate market.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 4:24 PM

Just noticed the google map shows 181 Washington Park not 191. The house is exactly mid block between Dekalb and Willoughby, not at the corner of Willoghby as shown.

Posted by: 191 at August 25, 2006 4:24 PM

Hey anon 1;30 I think anon 4;00 has a valid point. Most women under 30 have some kind of landscaping work done. For women under 25 it's seems to be mandatory with most opting for some sort of severe topiary> manicured putting green type lawns. I for one find the 1970's style to be most pleasant. I like my nature unspoiled. And oh yeah the F.G. house will sell for 25k less than asking so the buyer can tell his friends he didn't pay full price.

Posted by: aaaaaanon at August 25, 2006 4:33 PM

I don't want to engage in the "I didn't say that", but....I didn't, 4:16. I log into this site, with the little typekey logo. If it doesn't have that logo, I am not the author.

For what it's worth, I would never say anything so stupid. Wash Park Ave, anywhere in Fort Greene, for that matter, is a great neighborhood, and if I could have afforded it, even back then, I would have moved there years and years ago. I'm not the one slamming your hood.

Posted by: Crown Heights Proud at August 25, 2006 4:55 PM


I'd like to here more about how brooklyn brownstone backyards are cropped. Any more theories?

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 5:06 PM

I think all of these houses are very over-priced. Think though that some of the doom and gloomers on the site(i.e. anon 3:48 PM "The Wall St. bonus argument didn't do much this year, and it won't again,")need to look at facts. According to Halstead Property's Brooklyn Townhouse Report for the 1st Half of 2006 the average tonwhouse price (for Boerum Hill/Brooklyn Heights/Carroll Gardens/Cobble Hill/Park Slope) increased by 11% to $1,539,841 while the median increased 8% to $1,350,000. I'd be carefull right now if I was a buyer too. Still have to distinquish between hype and fact.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 5:07 PM

I second the motion that what is most interesting about this debate is how irrational it is. People get so attached to their vision-- that there is/isn't a bubble & that it will/won't pop painfully...

The people who creep me out, though, are the people who lovingly envision a painful future for others. Like Anon 2:14, with that "sorry, but it's the truth." That's a person who loves delivering bad news so much that he/she has created it to deliver it to strangers.

Creepy.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 5:22 PM

It all just gets boring on these threads. Obviously, no one knows how the market will play out and whether and how substantial the downturn will be. Why not comment about the houses, their merit, their location? Otherwise, the threads, with all the trolls, just become meaningless. It's like watching Geraldo Rivera on tv.

Posted by: PPSer at August 25, 2006 5:29 PM

couldn't agree more.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 6:03 PM

To Anonymous 4:11, you say 10 South Oxford sold for 2.35. Are you sure? It was completely gutted this past year for condo conversion and is in the process of getting a new facade. I walk by it many times each day. Knowing the local market well, I really doubt it went for 2.35 million. However, I heard that 27 South Oxford, a lovely 4-storey house across the street, sold for 2.2 on Craigs List this spring.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 25, 2006 7:42 PM

Oops, forgot to sign my name at 7:42. Other real estate transactions in FG north of 2 million were 10 South Portland ($2.65 million, 5 storeys, 23' wide, needs major work) sold this summer, 50 South Portland ($2.3 million, 22 or 23' wide, 4 storeys, move-in condition) closed this summer, not to mention 1 South Portland, which sold for, I think, $2.85?

All this to say I think $1.9 is just about right for a 4 storey 20 footer on Fort Greene Park. I just wonder if it will sell to someone who wants the rental income (I doubt it), or someone who will convert to 1 or 2 family. If you put 4-500 thousand into it to convert to, say, an upper triplex with a garden rental, I'd say you'd still be in the right ballpark, price-wise.

Posted by: fortgreener at August 25, 2006 8:30 PM

brownstoner...are you glad you eliminated the sign in requirement now? How's it feel to be popular again?

Posted by: anonymous at August 25, 2006 8:53 PM

I don't know how Mr. B feels, but I think it's great to have the site be its old self again. This site rocks again!

Posted by: PJ at August 25, 2006 9:44 PM

yes, registration sucked! it was the same four people dominating every thread. negative selection to the core. evertyhing was "development sucks, politicians suck, big business sucks, capitalism sucks, George Bush sucks, America sucks....yada, yada, yada. enough, we get it already! so boring... Zzzzzzzzzzzz....

Posted by: justathought at August 27, 2006 1:44 PM

To the person who thinks these prices are coming down 25 percent, good luck to you, you won't be buying any time soon, I guess.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 27, 2006 2:41 PM

Sorry but St. Johns is not a good block. Not worth that price tag to anybody in the know about the north slope. What, did all the section 8 housing just disappear in the N. Slope? I don't think so. Center Slope has much more charm and value. Just not a lot of sales there because people hang on to their property longer in that area.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 27, 2006 7:10 PM

To Mr. Justathought - I think you should be a little more careful in your posting - while people on this site criticize bad development which is a problem in Brooklyn I dont remember seeing anything anti-American or even anti-Bush - its easy to lump in things that don't belong together or to exaggerate and I think this might the case here.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 28, 2006 1:44 AM

I saw the Ft. Greene house and thought it was intriguing. The owners haven't lived there in many years but the place is in great shape/good tenants which reflects well on the sellers. The location is amazing and even on a rainy day, the place was filled with light - a tricky thing in a lot of these tall thin places. I think they'll fetch their asking price or higher. I for one would be happy to start with a clean slate on the kitchen. I've been looking for 2 years and haven't seen a single renovated kitchen that I like. It's easier to tear out that little one and really easy to knock down the wall and expand it. I wish this was in my range.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 28, 2006 9:03 AM

curious if anyone has seen the house at 308 carlton and can compare to this one. same price, carlton block of course doesnt have 'signature" of washington park but also a four family with detail on parlor floor
any thoughts?
thanks!

Posted by: anonymous at August 28, 2006 6:31 PM

heard they have an offer at asking already

Posted by: anonymous at August 28, 2006 7:23 PM

The St. Johns house has some gorgeous details, has the grandest formal dining room ever, but I agree with the person who pointed out the one owner's one sole bathroom with the weird layout. And yes the kitchen is small. I had a hard time imagining who would spend that much to live in that particular duplex. Lastly, I LOVE the idea of vinylsider.com! Hysterical. That's my price range too, so bring it on man. I'd love to see more discussion of how to turn South Slope vinylsiders into nice single family houses. Let's see photos from someone who did that.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 30, 2006 2:30 AM

For the record, today we went to contract at the asking price for 191 Washington Park. If a property is priced fairly, it does not take long to sell , and the internet allows FSBO sales that were not possible only a few years ago. I am indebted to this site and the vibrant realestate community in Brooklyn for our success.

Posted by: 191 at September 5, 2006 9:00 PM

Post a comment

Please be patient while your comment is published. It may take a moment.

Latest Restaurant Additions