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August 23, 2006

More AY Mashups: Puttin' On The Perspective

ay projection
What is it they say about a picture being worth a thousand words? The latest architectural plan/photo mash-up depicting the scale of the proposed Atlantic Yards project comes from photographer Jonathan Barkey. This particular one shows a view of the Dean Street playground. If you look carefully you might see some small apartment houses behind the row of brownstones. Five more scenarios follow on the link.

Just a reminder that the Empire State Development Corp is holding a public hearing on the Atlantic Yards project today from 4:30 to 8:30 at 285 Jay Street. Written comments are due within 30 days of the meeting.
How Big? Way Big! [Atlantic Yards Report]

Comments

My thoughts exactly. These large buildings can be beautiful on their own and the contrast with the low rises in front may be visually pleasing. These renderings do not depict what will actually be built.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 23, 2006 9:47 AM

I see a lot of housing being created in those pictures.

Let's take a picture in front of other playgrounds that are adjacent to highrises in the city... I think there are a few in central park.

Posted by: OE at August 23, 2006 9:57 AM

And the shadows all day! Fabulous - can hardly wait. And lets remember the people living in those new buildings will be economically on a par with the people on Central Park. And remember, your taxes are going to pay millions and maybe billions so that Mr. R can build these luxury buildings. What a deal! What a humanitarian that man is!

Posted by: Anonymous at August 23, 2006 10:22 AM

Yeah...all that housing...You think thsoe kids in the playground will be living in those fancy high-rises? Guess again.

Posted by: Jon Keegan at August 23, 2006 10:37 AM

"And lets remember the people living in those new buildings will be economically on a par with the people on Central Park."

Yes and that means better services, retaurants, etc...

Posted by: Anonymous at August 23, 2006 10:38 AM

Those hi rises along Central Park are beautiful old buildings for the most part, and it visually all works together. As far a contrast- It certainly will be, but not a pleasing one. It's totally disproportionate and is a visual blockade. It will be nothing if not claustrophobic.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 23, 2006 10:47 AM

Whether or not AY is good or bad, those mash-ups definitely do not accurately depict what it would really look like.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 23, 2006 10:54 AM

huh? Brooklyn doesn't have good restaurants? And as for services - if Anon 10:38 is assuming increased train service, more schools or an upgraded sewer system, guess again.
This is buying into the "blighted" area argument. The railyards and the Ratner-owned properties surrounding it may be blighted, but the surrounding areas are booming due to the hard work and dedication of the residents already there.
*That's* why Ratner wants to put thouands of high-priced condos in the neighborhood. (Oh yeah, and the 900 affordable ones too.) Do you really think the luxury market he's going for would live in truly blighted area of Brooklyn?

Posted by: petunia at August 23, 2006 11:10 AM

I'd rather play basketball in the shade than in the direct sunlight. Do you know how hot it gets on those courts? It's often too hot to play. The shade will be nice.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 23, 2006 11:10 AM

after all, only old buildings are beautiful. and no blacks are allowed to live around central park. and any neighborhood with density and shadows is desolate and miserable (like all of Manhattan)

Posted by: Anonymous at August 23, 2006 11:11 AM

10:54, you base this on your expertise in architecture, or what? If the mash-ups are based on the renderings and plans offered by FCR, why not?

You may well be correct, but just saying it doesn't make it so. Back that up with some kind of evidence.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 23, 2006 11:12 AM

This rendering looks wonderful. I know that they are provided in hopes of illustrating how scary and horrible the area will look once the buildings are erected, but IMO it does exactly the opposite.

And the hearings scheduled for tonight are a mere formality. We all know that this project is going to get built.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 23, 2006 11:16 AM

The renderings do seem accurate and what blight. It's going to be a sad day for Brooklyn. We don't need another Manhattan. We need a contrast. Brooklyn is already booming without these monstrous eye soars. Why can't they make them 6 stories and make everyone happy.

Posted by: anon at August 23, 2006 11:28 AM

Wow I can't wait for these whole development to take place.

Posted by: Josh at August 23, 2006 11:37 AM

Manhattan is growing... I mean Brooklyn. ;)

Posted by: Emilia at August 23, 2006 11:38 AM

11:10- plant a tree if you want shade.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 23, 2006 11:43 AM

Just a note. You cannot actually have shadows all day from a vertical building. As the earth moves around the sun, shadows move accordingly.

Fascinatin', no?

Posted by: anonymous at August 23, 2006 12:30 PM

Great views of AY from a helicopter right before it crashes into a building! What a joke!

Posted by: SuperAnon at August 23, 2006 12:59 PM

I agree with 10:54 completely - the perspective is exaggerated. The buildings would not look that extreme in reality. Plus, rendering them in a single, uniform color without fenestration or any facade details really portays them as especially oppressive.

Regardless, I think this outcome is fantastic. It's unfortunate that a schmuck like Ratner will be getting the profits, but I'd rather that than have the empty railyards for another 50 years.

Posted by: erik at August 23, 2006 1:15 PM

Wow! They're going to be HUGE. You do kind of have to admire a guy for going THAT balls out financially, what a tremendous risk he's taking in this market.

Hey people, this is the American way. No risk, no reward. Sure it might look terrible (not that it doesn't look pretty crap right now), but man, what a gamble! It's like 2 million square feet or something.

Give the guy some props.

Posted by: Brian at August 23, 2006 1:24 PM

Everyone knows that Atlantic Yards will be built as planned. With that being said, I would love to hear what opponents of the project will do afterwards. Is anyone going to leave Brooklyn? Probably not. To the contrary you will go on with your lives: (1) you will enjoy the public parks at Brooklyn Bridge, Fort Greene and Prospect; (2) you will enjoy the multitude of cultural offerings at the BAM Cultural District; (3) you will continue to enjoy the Brooklyn Botanical Garden, Brooklyn Museum and Children's Museum;(4) you will enjoy a new and improved Fulton Mall; (5) you will enjoy a plethora of new services, restaurants and shops catering to all of the new money flowing into the borough and brownstone Brooklyn in particular, (6) you will enjoy your beautiful brownstones and fast rising property values; and yes,(7) you will enjoy rooting for and attending Brooklyn Nets games at the downtown arena.

In the end, you will continue to tell all of your friends, family members and co-workers about how Brooklyn is such a wonderful place to live and why they should relocate to the borough of Kings.

Posted by: SuperAnon at August 23, 2006 2:13 PM

Petunia,

Of course Brooklyn has some good restaurants. I want more...

Posted by: Anonymous at August 23, 2006 2:19 PM

SUPER ANON SERVING IT UP STRAIGHT WITH NO CHASER!

Posted by: Anonymous at August 23, 2006 2:24 PM

You will also enjoy the new and DEVELOPED Brooklyn waterfront - full of luxury and affordable housing, shops, restaurants and marinas with some of the best views in New York City.

The sky is certainly not falling - not by a long shot.

Posted by: SuperAnon at August 23, 2006 2:25 PM

Superanon- sounding a little fascist there in your 2:13 post. You will you will you will.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 23, 2006 2:38 PM

erik's comment is correct. monolithic, monochromatic mashups do not accurately represent what the actual buildings will truly look like. imagine parts of manhattan rendered this way and it would look equally monstrous. in reality, even in the parts of manhattan where tall buildings border upon scaled down areas, it never looks as bad as this mashup.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 23, 2006 3:22 PM

Fascist? Who is commenting on this blog, some college freshman? lol

I'm concerned about the scale and the effects it will have on traffic and infrastucture.

I also have issues with the idea of using, or threatening to use, eminent domain for this project. If I was advising Ratner, I'd say develop a plan to just build within the empty AY lots as opposed to destroying people's homes and businesses and you'd garner a lot more support (or at least would make it much harder for the opposition to slow the project down or stop it).

As for the juxtaposition of modern tall buildings and low scale 19th century neighborhoods, while not my ideal, I do not think it looks bad and can attractive. More publicly accessible space and not street demapping would make it even more palatable.

As for those who champion this as a good deal because of jobs and affordable housing, I think they are misguided. This will result in the area becoming even more expensive to live in and only intensify the flight of middle and lower income people from the surrounding neighborhoods. 900 affordable units of housing won't counter that very much.

Posted by: lp at August 23, 2006 3:27 PM

This ain't going to happen the way it's planned. Ratner & the ESDC cut too many legal corners--thinking Brooklyn was still a place rich people can do whatever they want. Too much sloppy stuff on the record, and they're gonna get nailed in court sooner or later. This could easily go to the Supreme Court, which is now much more conservative and would probably like to take another look at ED.

Posted by: Steve at August 23, 2006 3:42 PM

SuperAnon, you sound like a Ratner shill.

Posted by: fortgreener at August 23, 2006 4:30 PM

Re: those complaining about the mash-ups - they are better than those released by Ratner's crew which left out some of the building to create a less overwhelming image.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 23, 2006 7:47 PM

if you're for AY, you're a Ratner shill? and if you are against then what are you? A knee-jerk nimby. it works both ways.

Posted by: OE at August 23, 2006 7:52 PM

No. I'm not a Ratner shill. I'm just a born and raised Brooklynite who lives and owns property in the "affected" zone and one who firmly believes that AY, along with all of the other development projects slated for Downtown Brooklyn and the Brooklyn waterfront, is actually in the best long term interest of this borough. I've been living and investing in Brownstone Brooklyn long enough to develop an independent opinion on what this borough needs to continue to flourish and thrive. I’m entitled to my opinion as surely as you are entitled to yours. IMHO, Brooklyn needs to grow organically and high rise/high density development Downtown at the borough's transportation hub and near to its economic center is not only attractive but also necessary if we are to meet the rising needs of this borough and its residents over the next fifty years.

DDDB views their organization as something novel and different but they’re actually not – NYC has been engaged in combat with anti-development/NIMBY zealots for hundreds of years. The reason why NYC is the greatest city in the world is because we never allowed the anti-development/NIMBY irrational mob to win and trample on our lofty goals and aspirations for this wonderful city. If the DDDBs of yesteryear had won more battles then they had lost, NYC would look more like Nebraska than the cosmopolitan, first rate city it is today. Thank God. Folks, just remember that opposition to development in NYC is not new and more often than not it’s unjustified. Anti-development groups, a very vocal minority, at one point or the other have been against the construction of some of the most famous buildings, bridges, parkways and tunnels in NYC; e.g., Grand Central Station, the Holland and Lincoln Tunnel, the FDR Drive, the Brooklyn Bridge, the Manhattan Bridge, Lincoln Center, Battery Park City, the Empire State Building, the World Trade Center, Rockefeller Center, Yankee Stadium, Shea Stadium, etc. In NYC, there have also been fridge interest groups with their own myopic, self-centered view of the world who have attempted to stifle the city’s growth and natural development. Thank God they didn’t win then and thank God they won’t win now.

Posted by: SuperAnon at August 23, 2006 9:09 PM

I Lived in Brooklyn for 33 years and this is a wonderful thing for the borough. Most of the people that have complained are new brooklynites. THis project would bring jobs (because not all of us live on our trust funds)and some housing for the people who are already living in this area or surrounding parts. As for the topic of gentrifying the neighborhood. Let's face it has begun along time ago. I am sure that those who will have to move will be well compensated. THe area is already expensive to live in what will make the difference. Maybe this would be a good opprotunity for the minority population to get together and try to buy or open up their own businesses. Also I donot see anyone complaining about the DUmbo projects that have insultingly and blantantly confirmed that the will not have any affordable housing available. THere have been people commmenting on TV "that those people should be happy with the projects". SO were are the rallies supporting the underserved community in this issue maybe because the underserved are minorities...
PS WHY SHOULDN"T BROOKLYN BE ITS OWN MECCA/MONEYMAKER!

Posted by: Mel at August 23, 2006 11:12 PM

Why would anyone be against fridges?

Posted by: Amy at August 23, 2006 11:50 PM

"I’m entitled to my opinion as surely as you are entitled to yours."

" NYC has been engaged in combat with anti-development/NIMBY zealots for hundreds of years."

So you want respect for your opinion, but anyone who is against the AY development is a NIMBY zealot? In other words, those who want a plan that is not so big, or that will take over public streets, or gulp down tax money or put a huge strain on the area resources or wonder why we should have to subsidize families that make over 100,000 a year in luxury apartments (not "nice" apartments, or "good" apartments, mind you) - that is, anyone who disagrees with how the AY is going to be developed, are totally anti-development Nimbyist zealots who are racist and new to Brooklyn. Oh yeah- that makes me want to respect your opinion. Because you have been so respectful of everyone else's.

"IMHO, Brooklyn needs to grow organically "- This is organic growth to you?! Must be the kool-aid and valium.

As for you, Mel- obviously despite 33 years of living in Brooklyn you haven't learned a thing. All you're doing is repeating the Ratner party line with no facts, no proof and a very simplistic view of life.

"I am sure that those who will have to move will be well compensated." How do you know? Pretty blase attitude you've got when someone else's home is at stake. Just another smug, head in the sand, AY shill.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 24, 2006 12:10 AM

Mel, hold on there, my friend. You must be new to the sandbox. ACORN, the affordable housing organization who is now FCR's new best friend, was protesting at DUMBO sites not even six months ago. They correctly were protesting the development of several DUMBO luxury condo buildings that were built utilizing tax and development programs that were created to encourage the building of affordable housing. It was quite the topic of discussion on this site. Some of the ACORN protests were rude, crude and very un-PC, but they made their point, and I think Bruce Ratner very cannily decided that it would behoove him to have that hornet's nest on his tree, not the opposition's. I also think that he has very been very smart in playing the race card in this fight, making it seem that rich, white yuppy newcomers are trying to keep poor black people from having new homes in their new swanky nabes. FCR has used the carrot of jobs and affordable housing to entice an army of people of color to fight for him, but they are only cannon fodder. This project does nothing to promote the creation of a new Brooklyn Mecca, it just makes money for FCR, and would overcrowd an area that is rich in transportation possibilities, but lacking in infrastructure, especially in terms of traffic,large enough public transportation facilities, access to emergency services, schools, etc. The fact that the project is waaaayyyyy too big, too high, threatens eminent domain abuse, and is just fugly to boot, should cause alarms to go off.

A company that builds malls right next door to this very project, that are a slap in the face to the "urban shopper" by their very design, is now going to care enough about that same community to make sure they are represented in the creation of affordable housing and good jobs. Uh huh. I have a great bridge for you. It'll make great luxury condos.

Posted by: Crown Heights Proud at August 24, 2006 12:42 AM

What's sad and interesting is how most Brooklynites are in agreement about a lot of issues in this - but no meaningful consensus will be reached because Brooklyn has little to no voice in the outcome. Nevertheless, most of BK has staked out their political positions so they can eke out some advantage of the end result - which none will be happy with.

99% of us are for something happening in that space, more housing for the working and middle class and more jobs for Brooklyn.

If ACORN and DDDB could sit down at a table for a few weeks, sure there would be some screaming and irriationality, but we could have a plan that all of Brooklyn would not just accept or begrudge but be really excited about. But the decisions will be made in Manhattan and Albany by those who care nothing about Brooklyn other than the revenues it can produce for the city and state.

The best case scenario is that DDDB, et als' efforts will pressure Albany to scale back the project and Acorn et al will somehow hold Ratner to his word (even though he has already backslid on it) on 50% units going to low, middle and "moderate" income folks. There is just as much chance that the project will go forward at its present scale and with few new affordable units for a project this large.

Sorry for the negativity, but I would really love to see community activists on both sides get what they want - or at least somebody from Brooklyn get what they want out of this.

Posted by: u r ripping us apart at August 24, 2006 1:41 AM

You are absolutely right. This has never been about Brooklyn- it's always been about Manhattan. Acorn and DDDB would be quite a unique, if not politically powerful community voice but Bertha Lewis signed that all away when she signed onto ratner's plan. CHP is right about Ratner playing the race card. It just proves him to be cynical, manipulative and greedy. Moreover, it takes a certain amount of contempt to use the race card. Think Bertha Lewis or Rev Daugherty realize how they have been played?

Posted by: jennyanne at August 24, 2006 1:53 AM

Oh....I'm sorry. JennyAnne and CHP are correct. Ratner is indeed playing the race card and Bertha Lewis and Daugherty (and any other person of color) are being used by their "white slave master." Isn't this what DG said a few months back and got slammed for: asserting that blacks are incapable of independent thought and opinion? Simmer down everyone. Both sides are playing the race card and using blacks in the fight to win support for or against this development: Ratner with the promise of jobs and affordable housing and DDDB with the argument that there won't be enough affordable housing or job creation at AY to warrant the project in its present form. Personally, I couldn’t care less for Ratner (I think the man is an idiot with no sensibility or taste) or DDDB (blind and fanatical). I simply think that this is a good deal for Brooklyn and with everyone watching, Ratner can't fuck this one up.

"Fridges" are bad because I'm overweight and they contain the seed to my demise... ;-)

Thanks for spotting the typo Amy - always the eagle eye!

Posted by: SuperAnon at August 24, 2006 5:44 AM

"Personally, I couldn’t care less for Ratner (I think the man is an idiot with no sensibility or taste) or DDDB (blind and fanatical). I simply think that this is a good deal for Brooklyn and with everyone watching, Ratner can't fuck this one up."

You're making no sense- you think Ratner gives a rat's ass for other opinions? You think he's an idiot, with no taste or sensibility, but you're willing to trust that he will do the right thing for Brooklyn because Brooklynites are watching? Where do you see any evidence in this whole process that shows he can be trusted?

Posted by: jennyanne at August 24, 2006 12:50 PM

Too bad that some people cannot respect other opinons and decide to attack instead of respond constructively. THis is not a tree grows in Brooklyn story. Obviously we have seen the development of One Hanson Place. It has shown that many of these things are out of our control no matter how much we protest. ANd many of you are correct in the sense there is no guarantee jobs would be offered to those in need. But maybe we can push that issue because lets face it many are behind the project and many of them have the $$. And so what the tax payers may have to take on some of the expense. Let's face it we have taken on the expense for many things we donot even know about.

As for Amy- If you are so concerned about Brooklyn why don't you fight the other developments going up all around the downtown area. I heard Scarano has plans for those infamous projects in "FOrtGreene". ANd even across the street from the projects as well on Myrtle ave. ANd what about the toy factory I donot see many people who are low income or even Middle income living in there. Of course it depends on what your criteria of middle income is!

And at this point I must agree with Jennyanne this still would be a good deal for brooklyn.

PS Just for your info I AM NOT NEW TO THE SITE. Have been checking it out for a long time just not one to respond much because as you see people are just way to sensitive to other opinons.

Posted by: Mel at August 24, 2006 12:53 PM

Thanks Mel, but I think you are referring to Superanon. I don't think the project is a good deal as it stands now. Superanon trusts the eyes of Brooklyn to force Ratner to do a good job. I don't see it and by the time we know for certain, the damage will be done.

Posted by: jennyanne at August 24, 2006 1:21 PM

I think JennyAnne needs a hug.... :-(

Posted by: Anonymous at August 24, 2006 4:09 PM

Oooh thanks anon at 4:09 but not from you. :-)

Posted by: jennyanne at August 25, 2006 12:33 AM

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August 23, 2006

More AY Mashups: Puttin' On The Perspective

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