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August 9, 2006
House of the Day: Crazily Overpriced on Greene
They gotta be kidding on this one! The 4,000-square-foot house at 165 Greene is one of a half dozen or so identical houses that were put up back in 1990. We've always assumed they were built as part of some kind of subsidized affordable housing initiative and the pricing and financing of the original sale lends credibility to that theory: We bet they were sold for $300,000 with 10% down, but we could be wrong. Regardless, they are without question deserving of a large price discount relative to the similarly-sized Victorian-era brownstones that grace the neighborhood. But the seller is pricing it on a par, which is insane, especially when you consider the truncated rear yard (see photo, top right) and, one of our favorite attributes, the bouquet of utility meters next to the front door (lower right). To be fair, it's not all bad: We thought the arched windows on the parlor floor were an unexpected nice touch. The location is very central, too, though the bus stop across the street is a slight bummer. Bottom line: We think the sellers are going to have to lower their expectations--and the price--a lot. Like four or five hundred thousand dollars.
165 Greene Avenue [Corcoran] GMAP P*Shark
Comments
agreed, pretty insane.
should be noted that 171 greene, on the same block, sold not that long ago for $1.425 mil. and the purchaser is condo-ing, rennovating and planning on reselling. woah.
btw, i'm pretty sure that this block was built by two separate developers replacing a delapidated hotel/apartment building. the whole block was built before the rush/gentrification into ft. greene and clinton hill. from washington to 175 were built as three family units by one developer and from 177 to st. james are two family units built by a different company.
Posted by: benno at August 9, 2006 11:59 AM
Woah - earth to Corcoran/current owners.......no way!!
I remember when these were built - I used to work for a small business run out of a house on St. James, at the time. I still think, as far as new townhouses in an historic neighborhood go, that these aren't bad at all. They at least hired a real architect, who did a good job incorporating period and area appropriate details into the buildings, the meters notwithstanding. The windows are large, which is great. Having said that, however, there is just no way a 15 year old pared down and rather utilitarian building should be on the market competing with a genuine period brownstone with fireplaces, woodwork, 12 foot ceilings and other period details. This one is going to see some severe price reductions, and I would be shocked if they even get half.
Love the barbed wire, that's a plus too.
Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at August 9, 2006 12:06 PM
I had friends who used to rent the upper duplex of this place, and I have to say it's pretty nice. The location is great and it's very large. I think it will sell a bit under asking, but not 4-500K.
I certainly prefer old houses, but if it's in the right location and in good condition, it doesn't have to be historic. The meters are lame, but this place is a HUGE step up aesthetically-speaking from other new construction in the area. And with the option of condo'ing, it could be well worth the price.
Posted by: clinton hillbilly at August 9, 2006 12:10 PM
It's around $400 per square foot. That's not a ridiculous price - saying it should cost $300 per is a little crazy.
Posted by: dcardoni at August 9, 2006 12:26 PM
OK, I admit my old house preferences tend to make me see most new construction as vastly overpriced, but as I said, I've always thought these were well done. So I guess it's feasible that it will sell for at least close to asking, according to all above.
Still, if you bought it at 1.6M to condo it, won't that still make some very expensive condos, especially after whatever work is done? It's still boggling the mind.
Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at August 9, 2006 12:56 PM
I don't think they would have to do much to condo it. It is already divided into 3 apartments and likely up to current code since it was built so recently. I bet it would cost around 100K.
Let's say someone buys this for 1.4MM. If they could sell the 2 duplexes for 799K each and the floor-through for 549K, there's a little money to be made.
Posted by: clinton hillbilly at August 9, 2006 1:01 PM
We looked at 2 or 3 of these townhouses about 3 years ago thru Corcoran...they were listed then at about 899K. We lost out on one of them because we weren't willing to budge off of $865K. The selling points are large apartments for everyone, including tenants (and probably good rental income)and nice deck space. The bad points - poor transportation hubs, miniscule backyards and a seemingly "iffy" neighborhood.
Posted by: NorthSloper at August 9, 2006 1:05 PM
I actually lived for 2 years in the adajacent building and moved out after purchasing apt in Prospect Heights. The upstairs apartments are great for rental, however, beware of basement apartments. Whenever it rained, most experienced severe flooding. Apparently there were major disputes between the city and individual building owners over whose falut it was and I'm not sure if a resolution ever came. Therefore, if interested, I would make sure to have the basement/leak problem fully investigated.
Location is great and is anything BUT iffy. Extremely quiet with exception of bus and nice walk to Fort Greene resturants. I still miss that neighborhood!
Posted by: iluvbk at August 9, 2006 2:05 PM
if not "iffy", why the barbed wire?
Posted by: NorthSloper at August 9, 2006 2:23 PM
i don't think the bus stop is an issue. i've heard brownstoner and others complain about houses that have bus stops on their blocks. we have one right in front of our house (no shelter though) and it's a blessing. i love coming out of the house right when the bus arrives.)
the sound doesn't bother me. (our replacement windows were well-installed.)
Posted by: nygrand at August 9, 2006 2:27 PM
only some one from the north slope would call clinton hill an iffy neighborhood. have you never seen barbed wire in the north slope? the only problem with this location is the bus that runs along greene avenue, which is extremely loud and runs all night and the suspicious hotel around the corner on washington avenue. but even the north slope has its share of questionable hotels. there used to be one on lincoln place between 7th and 8th avenues that was only recently replaced.
Posted by: miche718 at August 9, 2006 2:35 PM
Actually, I think my neighborhood is iffy too>>>> witness the stabbing that took place on a Saturday afternoon because of road rage. And no, I've never seen barbed wire in the North Slope. Please point it out if you know of it. I also doubt the North Slope has hotels. SROs yes, hotels no.
Posted by: NorthSloper at August 9, 2006 2:39 PM
Barbed wire does not equate "iffy" neighborhood. The tenants who live on that end have young kids and there is a side entrance that is right on Wash into their backyard. You can never be too safe. It was definitely safer and quieter there when I was renting than in Prospect Heights.
Posted by: iluvbk at August 9, 2006 2:41 PM
Sorry you missed the boat a few years ago, but if you lived here, you would know that this part of Clinton Hill is decidely not "iffy." More like spiffy, barber wire or no.
Posted by: clinton hillbilly at August 9, 2006 2:45 PM
This strip of houses was actually built in two sections--the first section towards Washington wnet up in the early 90s. Allegedly the developer ran out of money, so there was a big empty lot on the St. James corner.
Then in the late 90s more units were built on the empty lot--I think it was the same developer but I'm not sure. The newer units tried without success to be luxurious--marble here and there but really stupid layouts. My fave feature was a fireplace located annoyingly off-center in the living room.
I think the older units, of which this is one, actually have better layouts and benefit from the lack of cheesy upgrades that plague the new ones.
But my pet peeve is electric baseboards--totally unattractive and not easy to fix. The price seems a bit steep for the quality of the construction.
Posted by: Tinarina at August 9, 2006 2:46 PM
Sorry you missed the boat a few years ago, but if you lived here, you would know that this part of Clinton Hill is decidely not "iffy."
Posted by: clinton hillbilly at August 9, 2006 2:46 PM
I know (from the horses mouth) that the developer who bought my house on Cambridge Place at a tax auction with the intention of tearing it down and building condos built either half, or all of these houses. When he was reluctantly selling the house to me (because the LPC wouldn't let him tear it down) he told me that he had built these houses.
Posted by: Shahn Andersen at August 9, 2006 3:05 PM
north sloper - you're blind. there is barbed wire all over the north slope you just have to open your eyes. its everywhere - everywhere.
Posted by: miche718 at August 9, 2006 3:09 PM
Yet another case of "Corcoran gone wild!". They overprice everything!
Posted by: morningbelle1 at August 9, 2006 3:20 PM
mihe718 - you haven't answered my question. where exactly is the barbed wire. don't let my question get you so hot under the collar. "Everywhere" is not an answer. BTW, you're not going to change my opinion about the location of these townhouses.
Posted by: NorthSloper at August 9, 2006 3:28 PM
do you mean change your opinion about the neighborhood in which these townhouses are located? I'm not a big fan of the location for the reasons I mentioned earlier (bus line, proximity to a suspicious hotel) but it as nice, safe, and beautiful a neighborhood as there is in brooklyn. I'm also not going to gratify you with specific examples of where barbed wire is located in the north slope when it is everywhere and all you have to do is get off your keister and open your eyes to see it.
Posted by: miche718 at August 9, 2006 4:05 PM
There's no point in trying to convince NorthSloper that landmarked Clinton Hill, in 2003 or 2006, is not an "iffy" neighborhood if she/he considers the Northslope iffy.
As for barbed wire, you do see it around in lots of neighborhoods, even seen it in the Brooklyn Heights. Usually where there is potential for public access to a yard over a fence.
I think this price is actually very out of whack, even for the size. It should come down a fair bit I'd say. Nice mid to late 19th century 4 story townhouses with details not requiring major overhalls but needing some work go for this price.
Posted by: 1847 at August 9, 2006 4:13 PM
I can confirm a couple of things above -- in late 2003, the house at 175 Greene (which has a better view out the back than 165) was asking $839K, and i think it was sold for just under that (I believe we were outbid by a few thousand).
However, that house's basement had clear signs of flooding issues. Also, while the apartments were OK, the walls and fixtures uniformly were middle-of-the-road if not downright cheap in feel and appearance.
Finally, these would be great units to go condo, but would require essentially a gut job to turn into single family residences.
Posted by: BHill denizen at August 10, 2006 9:21 AM
I looked at one of these units about a year ago (can't remember the number) but remember the "new" interior looking pretty tired and the rooms feeling kind of small. I also thought it was strange that they were priced like "real" brownstones though seemed kind of cheesy.
Posted by: Lisa at August 10, 2006 2:40 PM
I always wondered about these. I was looking at everything before I bought in Dec 04 and saw these (don't know which building) advertised often but never saw them inside. They always looked a little off (off center fireplace noted...). Just had to say about Corcoran - rather than just say they are nuts, they always go for the moon on everything. Who knows what the statistics are on where they close these things versus where they list them.
Posted by: donatella at August 10, 2006 4:11 PM
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