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July 7, 2006

Open House Picks

housePark Slope
285 Garfield Place
Warren Lewis
Sunday 1-3
$2,280,000
GMAP P*Shark

houseBoerum Hill
229 Bergen Street
Cobble Heights
Sunday 12-2
$1,795,000 $1,595,000
GMAP P*Shark

houseBedford Stuyvesant
464 Willoughby Avenue
FSBO
Sunday 12-3
$899,000
GMAP P*Shark

houseProspect Lefferts Gardens
256 Lincoln Road
Alexis
Sat 10-2; Sun 2-4
$850,000
GMAP P*Shark

houseBedford Stuyvesant
643 Jefferson Avenue
Corcoran
Sunday 1-3
$775,000
GMAP P*Shark




Posted by Brownstoner at 11:35 AM | Comments (54)
Categories: Open Houses

Comments

i saw the garfield place a few weeks ago- the entire house is sloping pretty badly, feels odd inside, like living in leaning tower of piza

Posted by: Anonymous at July 7, 2006 11:43 AM

The house on Lincoln Rd is being sold by the same fsmily as the one on Empire Blvd. from a few weeks ago. I went to the second OH they had at this house (it's been on the market for about five or six weeks now) and while the location is excellent, the house needs A LOT of work, which the owners readily admit. It's been occupied by the same family for about 45 years and looks it. A lot of the great original details are still there, byt the house is just crammed full of 45 years worth of stuff and no effort (or maybe it has but there's a lot more that could be done) has been made to get it in shape to sell, and having the whole family around at the open house doesn't really help, either -- it makes you feel uncomofrtable, like you're disturbing them. Considering what other houses on this and surrounding Lefferts Manor blocks are going for, this price doesn't seem too bad, unless it needs over $300K worth of work. I just think that if it showed better (clean the place up, put stuff in storage, take the family to the park for the open house) it would have sold by now. The house on Emire Blvd. was in better shape with less clutter so you could see the place and was underpriced so it sold itself. This one needs a little help.

Posted by: babs at July 7, 2006 12:00 PM

229 Bergen Street. Good block. Used to live on it. Only drawback may be the Bus traversing that street (if you are a light sleeper it sounds loud given how quiet the street is at night). Price seems a bit low given that 244 Bergen (280 SF less in size) went for 1.53 last year.

Posted by: crouchback at July 7, 2006 12:02 PM

Also saw garfield a while ago and yeah it feels woozy like a funhouse upstairs. They straightened the parlour floor way back when (the synagogue was built, which allegedly caused the sinkage) but not the upper floors.

It doesn't have a lot of garden lot left either.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 7, 2006 12:50 PM

I saw Lincoln Road too and I agree with Babs' description. But I question the price. A renovated version of the same house on Maple street is asking 949K. That house has been on the market for awhile too. The Lincoln road house needs way more than 100K to get into as good shape as the Maple one--and personally I'd pay an extra 50K just to be on Maple. So this house would have to be no more than 800K to make sense compared to the Maple house--and that's assuming the Maple house actually sells for asking, which in this market is unlikely. But the real thing is that neither house moved me enough to justify the cost and effort. Now that there are more options in my price range, I’m holding out for something special.

Posted by: choosy mother at July 7, 2006 1:02 PM

I was predicating all that on actually paying $800 - $825K; that would certainly be my best offer. I do think that if they fixed the place up a bit, however (just comsetics), they'd have a much better shot at that. As to whether Maple vs. Lincoln is worth $50K, that's a matter of personal preference.

Posted by: babs at July 7, 2006 1:18 PM

Babs--yes, of course my preference for Maple is completely personal. No real difference in the blocks--I just like the 'feel' of Maple more. And I'd agree again that 800K would be the most to spend on this house. As to why people don't understood the importance of a basic de-cluttering and cleaning before they show their house--it is a mystery to me!

Posted by: choosy mother at July 7, 2006 1:29 PM

I guess they figured it was too difficult (elderly people, years of accumulated stuff, etc.) and figured that the market was so hot the house would go easily at that price regardless of the clutter -- and they might have been right, had the family just gone out for three hours. Personally, having Grandma wave at me from her bed and a sullen teen-ager living in the basement watching TV while I was trying to look at the house kind of drew my attention away from trying to viualize the place after the clutter was gone. No offense to them at all, I know they are very good people -- it just prevents anyone from really taking a look around.

Posted by: babs at July 7, 2006 1:37 PM

Re: the Lincoln Road house; I don't know this particular house, or its owner, but these relatively small two story houses, designed by Benjamin Driesler c. 1909/1910 for a company called Realty Associates, can be found on Lincoln Road, Maple Street, Midwood Street Rutland Road, and Fenimore Street (i.e. ALL the Lefferts Manor Streets) just west of Rogers Ave. In general, they're very attractive houses with lots of craftsman movement type interior details.

If the house is as Babs describes it, this could be a really good opportunity if the lack of preparation and clutter lead to a selling price significantly below asking. The way I look at it, the buyer is going to redecorate anyway, so why pay for recent work you're likely to re-do? The question is, what condition are the mechanicals in? This has probably always been a one family house with only two or three previous owners. It's relatively late and (presumably) has never been converted into a rooming house or multiple dwelling. These are the reasons why even houses needing "lots" of work in Lefferts Manor usually don't need as much work as houses in many other brownstone nabes.

Once again, I 'd like to point out that I'm writing in generalities. This house MIGHT be an exception, but IMO its well worth looking at.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at July 7, 2006 1:50 PM

Is it just me or does the BedSty house a little high given it needs so much work.

Posted by: Lisa B at July 7, 2006 2:35 PM

3rd and bond? ah I guess she is counting on gowanus eventually looking like little venice in london. Cute canal boats, flower boxes, and cobble stone pathways. A good extremely long term bet. 2050 perhaps?

Posted by: Anonymous at July 7, 2006 2:37 PM


Both Bed Stuy houses seem REALLY high given their locations. What's with that?!?!

Posted by: Anonymous at July 7, 2006 3:22 PM

Jerry: What area are you referring to specifically as being dangerous. I know a lot of people who live on the Lefforts Manor blocks who would disagree with you. Are you speaking from experience?

Posted by: crouchback at July 7, 2006 3:41 PM

If you think the BedStuy houses are REALLY high....what real comps can you point to that make you claim that?

Posted by: Anonymous at July 7, 2006 3:55 PM

"perturbed", the lincoln road house happens to be on a "very fine" tree-lined Lefferts Manor Historic Landmarked Block. and the homes on that block are of the highest architectural quality according to the landmarks preservation commission. all the blocks in the "manor" are patrolled by police on a regular basis; in fact, the association and many of the residents have partnered with the 71st precinct (on a first-name basis i might add) to address all complaints, including safety and quality of life issues. the results have been great.

so to say "that area is very dangerous" may be misleading to some folks. if you consider the area to be too dangerous "for you and your family", there are other nabes that will perhaps better satisfy your desires--you should explore them. people who make statements without proper justification are just not welcomed to lefferts. thanks.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 7, 2006 3:57 PM

Crouchback,

As anyone who's read my posts might predict, I agree with you. However, debating the "dangerous" nature of LM (which I certainly haven't observed over the past 30+ years) has lead to some pretty ugly exchanges here. If anyone is interested in looking for a house in Lefferts Manor or anywere in PLG, I'd suggest looking around the neighborhood, speaking to residents, posting a question on our local Lefferts Yahoo Group, speaking to the community affairs and anti-crime officers at the 71st Pct. and so on. There's no point whatsoever in starting another "its dangerous" "no, its not" exchange here--I'm pretty sure most regular Brownstoner readers are tired of it. If Jerry, or anyone else, doesn't like LM, that's fine--its a fairly small neighborhood with only a handful of houses on the market at any given time. In have no need to change anyone's mind.

Anyway, that's my bid for sainthood nomination for today :-)

I'll be more than glad to answer specific questions about the nabe, but no accusations, name-calling, etc.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at July 7, 2006 3:59 PM

I dunno, the Jefferson Ave house might be a good deal, depending on what "a lot of work" really means. It's just outside of the Stuy Hts Historic District, so as that area gets more and more desirable, people are naturally going to start looking in the surrounding blocks, so a fixer upper might be the best way to go, and enable someone to configure the house in the best way that works for them. The described detail sounds great, and I find this an interesting property.

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at July 7, 2006 4:02 PM

okay both of the bedstuy houses are totally overpriced. willougby between marcy and nostrand for almost 900k? and the places around stuy heights are just starting to fetch over a million thats silly. Jefferson ave isn't too bad but value decreases significantly past stuyvesant ave and its off malcolm x not to mention it needs 250k (probably more like 500k) of work priced at 775? that's a real stretch.

Posted by: stuy blkbuttrflie. at July 7, 2006 4:07 PM

I'm willing to bet that Jerry has no personal experience. Essentially, he's refering to all of the negative press on this blog with respect to PLG. The area is not dangerous. When crime does happen it's typically afflicted upon poor blacks who don't live in PLG by other blacks who don't live in the area. The whites in PLG are for the most part safe. When was the last time that someone white was murdered in PLG or one of their apple cheek kids abducted? Stop with the paranoia. PLG is not Brownsville or East New York. We live in NYC. Brooklyn is vibrant, very urban and "colorful". If young folks fellowshipping on a street corner unnerves you, then you shouldn't live anywhere near Flatbush or Rogers. Oh yeah, don't get on the buses and trains either because they're there too....

Posted by: Super Anonymous at July 7, 2006 4:08 PM

crownheightsproud - if the jefferson house does indeed need 250k of work (per corcoran - and we all know how honest they are at appraisal) that means you'll spend over a million dollars for this house. don't you think thats just a bit too much to bite off to be between malcolm x and stuyvesant?

Posted by: stuy blkbuttrflie. at July 7, 2006 4:10 PM

re: 643 Jefferson....click on propshark.. and shows pic of diffenent house and indicates on corner of Stuyvesant.
Did Corcoran put in wrong address or wrong photo?

Posted by: Anonymous at July 7, 2006 4:27 PM

Well, stuy blkbuttrflie, I don't know, since I've never seen the inside, which I may go do this weekend, just for fun.

I happen to think almost everything is overpriced, but my thinking that doesn't make them go down any, so I'm dealing with what they have dealt me here.

But if the house is between Stuy and Malcolm X, and the hist. district ends at Stuy Ave, we're not talking about WAAAY out of the area with the million dollar houses, they are just around the corner and down a bit, so it stands to reason that as they appreciate, so will this one, albeit a bit slower. I'm not that familiar with the specifics of that block, as I used to live on Jeff between Marcy and Thompkins, and that's a ways away.

In answer to your second post, let's say the house is suffering from years of neglect and the usual ignoring or shoddy repair of small things, like leaks, which are now large problems, and needs new plumbing, electrical, and plastering, and probably some floor repairs, and a whole lot of cosmetics. Even if it needs a new roof or boiler. Not to mention some facade/backyard work. If the house has good bones,(for me)great detail and built-ins, and a good layout, I'd consider it money well spent. The area is only going to go up in value, and also important to me, would be a great place for me to live.

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at July 7, 2006 4:40 PM

re:643 Jefferson....Propshark shows a 643A Jefferson with same pic as Corcoran.
So Corcoran dropped the A or propshark has mixed up addresses .

Posted by: Anonymous at July 7, 2006 4:41 PM

oh, and propshark shows 643A Jeff just sold in Jan for $665K.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 7, 2006 4:45 PM

The houses on that block of Jefferson are quite nice in my opinion. I don't know if that makes it a good deal, but I don't see how location is a drawback for this particular property.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 7, 2006 4:50 PM

Plenty of people raise kids on Lincoln Road, they even let them out to play.

When will people stop acting like the neighborhood is in a field between two opposing armies who are exchanging gunfire? Have any of you people who feel the need to cry "danger" ever even walked around the blocks of PLG? It's quiet, tranquil, and safe. They have one of the best community organizations I have ever seen, and many of the people there actually know and speak to each other. We all should live in such a great neighborhood.

Yes, it has problems, rowdy spots, downright bad spots, and crimes do occur. But that's a far cry from "dangerous."

Posted by: Anonymous at July 7, 2006 4:51 PM

Thanks for the even-handed post Saint Bob.

Posted by: crouchback at July 7, 2006 4:59 PM

I've been looking all over Brooklyn for awhile now, and Lefferts Manor is one of the better options if you want to spend under a million. As 4:51 said, there are problems and bad spots. Personally, I wouldn't live too close to Flatbush or Rogers, since I don't want to have to see or hear the loiterers or the traffic from my house, and because there is drug-dealing at many of those corners and I wouldn't want to be too close to it. But once you're away from those corners, it really is pleasant and safe. I have friends in the area and they certainly have plenty of complaints and concerns, but dangerous crime isn't one of them. As I said earlier, I think the Lincoln road house is a decent deal if you can get it for around 800K.

Posted by: choosy mother at July 7, 2006 5:04 PM

Bob, you are indeed a saint! You and your wife raised a child, let him run abound your PLG neighborhood, and he lived! According to 5:04, that's a miracle. You must be in good with the Almighty.

5:04, your comments are beyond absurd, and win my Snort of Absolute Ridiculousness. Congratulations.

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at July 7, 2006 5:12 PM

The Jefferson block for the Bed Stuy house is a nice one. It's on the corner of stuyvesant. It seems really pricey considering repairs will probably be more like $400,000 not $250,000 like corcoran says.

Posted by: pietro at July 7, 2006 5:20 PM

I'm not commenting on any particular neighborhood but this is one hell of a hillarious euphemism:

"young folks fellowshipping on a street corner"

Posted by: Anonymous at July 7, 2006 5:25 PM

"young folks fellowshipping on a street corner"

LOL! That's an interesting way to describe a drive by shooting.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 7, 2006 5:30 PM

It is possible for black teenagers to hang out with their friends, even on street corners, as this is a city, and not be in any way connected to crime, and/or shootings. They may be rude, crude and noisy, but that doesn't make them criminals.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 7, 2006 5:53 PM

Absolutely true, 5:53. In fact, rude, crude and noisy describes a lot of teens all over the world.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 7, 2006 5:56 PM

"You forget that some of us read this blog regularly and are reading it even when we\'re not posting."

Very true. Which is why no one believes you. Go away now...Shoo, shoo.

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at July 7, 2006 5:57 PM

Unfortunately, not everyone in NY (or anywhere else in the US, I guess) agrees with Anon 5:53. I am continually amazed at the noise, filth, crowding, public drunkenness, and generally obnoxious behaviour exhibited by the hordes of affluent, usually white, young adults who descend on the Lower East Side (where I also live) on any given night, but particularly Thurs - Sun, about which the forces of order do absolutely nothing. As I've often remarked, let even half as many young black adults make half as much a scene anywhere and you'd have the cops out in riot gear in 10 minutes. The contrast between the LES at night and PLG at any time of the day or night is truly amazing and a blessed relief.

Posted by: babs at July 7, 2006 6:11 PM

The relief being, of course, when I get home to PLG, and is a reason I spend less and less time on the LES.

Posted by: babs at July 7, 2006 6:24 PM

Very true Babs. Says something about our perceptions in this country. And I have to say that while I have never been offered a seat by a white teenager, I have on several occasions, while carrying a lot of heavy bags, been offered my seat by Black ones. (And I'm white).

Posted by: Bx2Bklyn at July 7, 2006 7:09 PM

Aleta- how is it you, Carlo and the troll get the same out of place backslashes in your posts and no one else does? Hmmmm....I wonder. (You need to better your typing skills or your keyboard).

Oh- and welcome to the Sybil Club. We're adding you to the growing list.

FYI- CHP and I are NOT the same person.

Posted by: Bx2Bklyn at July 7, 2006 7:13 PM

"FYI- CHP and I are NOT the same person"

I can attest to that--both CHP and Bx 2 Bklyn came to the opening of my photography show at K-Dog a couple of months ago--definately two different people :-)

Posted by: Bob Marvin at July 7, 2006 7:23 PM

Oh,Pleeeeese!

Posted by: Bob Marvin at July 7, 2006 8:30 PM

anon 5:04:

shame on you! why don't you stop the insults and pick on someone your SIZE! Leave PLG--especially LM, alone!!!!!

Posted by: Anonymous at July 7, 2006 9:40 PM

While I got a certain thrill from being "trolled" it quickly wore off and now I'm just disgusted. How much fun can it really be to play such childish games?

To try to get back on-topic, I have to say that I agree that a group of white teens hanging out, drinking, and making noise is deemed just a nuisance while black teens doing the same thing is seen as somehow criminal. Nonetheless, I personally wouldn't want to live within earshot of either group, and I do understand why some people don't want to live near places where that takes place on a regular basis. Call it "fellowshipping" if you want, but it is still noisy and can be uncomfortable to walk through.

Now I'm going to bed. If there are any more posts with my name later on, they're not me!

Posted by: choosy mother at July 7, 2006 11:33 PM

I live on that block and it's fantastic - perhaps a step below Prospect Heights in terms of being "prime" for Manhattanites, but that block is miles ahead of Bed-Stuy and Crown Heights on so many levels. $850K on that block for someone starting or raising a family seems unbeatable to me.

P.s. - I think Jerry is the troll.

Posted by: C.B. at July 8, 2006 12:24 AM

I also live right near there and I agree that the area has a lot going for it. There is substance to the claims that it is a dangerous neighborhood, though. I would even go so far as to describe it as 'very dangerous'; but that simply means that it would take the right sort of person to jump on this deal. I am single, expect to remain single and have no desire for children. That's one of the reasons this neighborhood works for me. If I had kids I'd have to move, but for me, in my present circumstances, this area is just fine.

Posted by: Jim at July 8, 2006 1:27 AM

Nothing is more boring or tired than seeing Brownstoner threads devolve into a "Lefferts Garden is dangerous!" versus "Lefferts Gardens isn't dangerous!" flame war.

Please. Stop. It. So. F'ing. Tired.

Posted by: B.D.M. at July 8, 2006 9:38 AM

Jim,

I'm curious, what street do you live on? There are LOTS of kids being raised in PLG. My own son, now 23 is an example. I wanted to link to photographs I took of a childrens' performance by the new PLG Arts group, but its posted on their Yahoo Group which, unfortunately isn't working right now--I'll try to post it later--many small children in the audience (BTW, for people with children, there are performances this Sat. & Sun.and NEXT Sat. & Sun. at 11 AM in the Prospect Park Imagination playground off Ocean Ave. south of Lincoln Road).

Posted by: Bob Marvin at July 8, 2006 9:49 AM

I am on Midwood not far from Rogers Ave. I know there are lots of kids being raised in PLG, as in every part of Brooklyn. Even so, I do not feel this neighborhood is safe enough for raising children.

Not to criticize people who do raise kids here. Many people may not have the option of moving. I am just saying that I would not do it.

Posted by: Jim at July 8, 2006 10:40 AM

I see that 77 Midwood (which was featured here a week ago and which Brownstoner predicted would be sold by July 4th) is still on the market and having another open house tomorrow. So much for the master's powers of prediction.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 8, 2006 10:53 AM

As a mom I can say that deciding what is a "safe" place for my kids is incredibly difficult and totally personal. I feel that Lefferts Manor IS safe, but I do have some concerns and I understand why some people wouldn't pick it. That's one of the reasons (but not the main one) that I'm looking at a range of areas. Right now we're off to visit friends and look at houses outside of the city. Tomorrow we'll do the Brooklyn open house circuit. Sooner or later, we'll find the "right" house in the "right" area, and everything will click.

Posted by: choosy mother at July 8, 2006 11:17 AM

Brownstoner, can't you do something to shut this b*tch up? Can't you ban her or do something to keep her from ruining every thread on this site?

Posted by: Anonymous at July 8, 2006 3:09 PM

Choosy mother, you need a new handle. If you think Lefferts is safe, you aren't "choosy" at all!

Posted by: Anonymous at July 8, 2006 3:57 PM

This is the URL I couldn't post earlier for my photos of last Sunday's PLG Arts performance of "Daydream" (a shortened kids version of Midsummer Night's Dream) lots of kids in the audience and I doubt that their parents consider them endangered.

http://tinyurl.com/zdg46

)BTW THIS "tiny url" is harmless--I only used it because the full URL is so long)

Posted by: Bob Marvin at July 8, 2006 6:43 PM

bob, we can't see the photos without joining the group.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 8, 2006 9:20 PM

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