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June 29, 2006

Turning Up The Pressure on Grand and Putnam

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Yesterday was a big day for our favorite drug-dealing hot spot at Putnam and Grand. First, the New York Sun ran a big story by Brad Hope about the escalating problems on the corner that we thought did an excellent job of framing the historical problems as well as the current resolve of community members to solve them. (As it is subscription only, we provide the entire text on the jump.) At the same time, as detailed at greater length over on the Brooklyn Record, members of the 88th Precinct were closing off the block, posting fliers and parking themselves right outside the drug dealers' doors. After all the lip service given to the topic at last week's town hall meeting, we were certainly encouraged by the show of force. It shows that the police can marshall the resources when they want to (or if DA Hynes wants them to, as the case may be). As many readers who don't live in the area may be disappointed to hear, we're going to keep holding them accountable to the extent that we can. Let's hope this is the start of a real sea change in action and attitude.

Addendum: We just heard from a reader who spoke to one of the cops this morning who told her they'll be there for months! Go, cops. We'll be sending over coffee and donuts. We suspect that DA Charles Hynes deserves a lot of credit for getting this moved up the priority list.
Police Pledge Crackdown in Clinton Hill [NY Sun]

By BRADLEY HOPE - Staff Reporter of the Sun
June 28, 2006

Responding to mounting community pressure in Clinton Hill, the 88th precinct is today launching an initiative to clean up quality-of-life crimes on the Grand Avenue corridor, sources said yesterday. One of the hot spots police will target is the corner of Putnam and Grand avenues - a dusty triangle between the neighborhood's streets of ancient mansions and brownstones, where neighbors said drug dealers openly make hand-to-hand trades and gamblers play illegal dice games. At the beginning of June the spot had its first slaying in three years, which has served as a rallying call for the neighborhood in recent weeks.

Though crime in the area is down significantly in all the major crime categories during the last decade, the Brooklyn neighborhood has already seen four slayings this year, according to Compstat reports. There were no murders last year. Reports of rape, burglary, felony assault, and grand larceny are also up slightly from the same period last year. Shooting incidents have risen to 12 this year from six last year, the reports show.

"It's a complete open-air drug market that everyone is aware of," a Clinton Hill resident and local business owner who would be identified only as Karl said. "There are drug dropoffs every morning. There are bicycle delivery people that you continually see riding about. You just avoid that corner."

The neighborhood complaints culminated last week with a meeting hosted by Concerned Residents of Grand Avenue, where the 88th precinct's commanding officer, Captain John Cosgrove, and the Brooklyn District Attorney, Charles Hynes, appeared. Captain Cosgrove told the audience that several dozen of the precinct's officers had been moved to other more problematic precincts in the borough, making it harder to fight the qualityof-life crimes on street corners, according to a report of the meeting at Brownstoner.com. Mr. Hynes said he would pay special attention to the block.

The precinct¹s new initiative will likely involve flooding the Grand Avenue corridor with police officers, sources said. Community organizers are pushing for surveillance cameras to be installed in crime hot spots. "There is high unemployment at that corner, so unfortunately individuals believe the best recourse is for them to engage in the drug trade," the neighborhood's City Council member, Letitia James, said. ³It¹s also the fastest and quickest way for them to get incarcerated."

Using the nuisance abatement law, the city is also trying to close down the Lefferts Hotel, a source of community complaints about illegal activity, Ms. James said. A manager of the hotel declined to comment. A former president of the Grand Avenue block association was allegedly threatened by drug dealers to stop his campaign to clean up the neighborhood several years ago, leading him to quit his post and the association to fold, an organizer and local resident, Stephanie Gillette, said. With renewed interest in the problem, Ms. Gillette said she hoped the authorities would make a long-term commitment to the problem. "There has been a lot of lip service in the past," she said.




Posted by Brownstoner at 8:56 AM | Comments (75)
Categories: Crime

Comments

Congradulations on getting corner cleaned up. Just hope they don't move closer to me.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 29, 2006 9:50 AM

I was wondering why the street was blocked off.

Is this an inconvenience for people who live on those blocks? How long will it continue?

Posted by: clinton hillbilly at June 29, 2006 9:54 AM

Nice job. I really hope you guys are successful.

Posted by: Sassy at June 29, 2006 9:55 AM

I also wonder about the inconvenience factor. I walked down the block at around 3 p.m. and again at 4:15 and saw no evidence of police officers, but the street was blocked off. At the time of the second walk, someone was apparently unloading her car at the roadblock, I guess to walk her garden plants to her house.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 29, 2006 10:08 AM

We doubt anyone who lives on the block--other than th dealers--is going to be complaining about the inconvenience. Presumablty the block being cordoned off is very temporary.

Posted by: Brownstoner at June 29, 2006 10:18 AM

"As many readers who don't live in the area may be disappointed to hear, we're going to keep holding them accountable to the extent that we can." Who would be disappointed to hear of people holding the police/DA's office accountable for enforcing the law anywhere? Or were you referring to the dealers themselves? Do they read Brownstoner (could be a good business stratgey, actually)? This sounds like a long-overdue action and one that, hopefully, will ultimately succeed.

Posted by: babs at June 29, 2006 10:26 AM

"As many readers who don't live in the area may be disappointed to hear, we're going to keep holding them accountable to the extent that we can."

All ships rise with the tide. What's good for your neighborhood can only be good for mine.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 29, 2006 10:27 AM

For sure, Babs. That comment was a little toungue-in-cheek b/c some folks who don't live in the area have commented that we spend an excessive amount of time on the topic.

Posted by: Brownstoner at June 29, 2006 10:29 AM

Yo. This was one of Biggie Small Crack spots. Dont hate the game...... This is TRUE BRooklyn.

B.I.G, P-O-P-P-A,
N o info, for the DEA.
Federal agents mad cause im flagrant.
Tap my cell and the phone in the basement.
My team supreme, stay clean.
Triple beam lyrical dream, I be that.
Catch a seat at all events bent.
Gats in holsters, girls on shoulders,
playboy, I told ya, bein nice to me.
Who's too much, I lose too much.
Step on stage the girls boo too much.
I guess it's cause you run with lame dudes too much
Me lose my touch? Never that
If I did, aint no problem to get the gat.
Where the true playaz at?
Throw your rollies in the sky.
Wave em side to side and keep the hands high.
While i give your girl the eye
Player please, lyrically, niggaz see, B.I.G.
Be flossin jig on the cover of Fortune,
Five double O,get the phone number your name I got to know,
I got to go. Got the flow down phizat, platinum plus like thizat,
Dangerous on trizack ... leave your ass kizzack.

Posted by: Biggie smalls at June 29, 2006 10:37 AM

I'd be much more inconvenienced by STRAY BULLETS than police cordons!!

Posted by: Archiefina at June 29, 2006 10:51 AM

I think you should give them their due. Sounds like they were not giving you "lip service" at all.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 29, 2006 10:51 AM

not an inconcenience at all. if you have proof of your residency on the block they let you drive in. they are incredibly nice officers as well and very open and willing to talk about their presence there and the hopes they ahve about the effect. They also seem to know exactly what's going on. I spoke with them about whether this would push it to another spot and they said, possibly, but they know exactly where that spot is.
to biggie smalls: brooklyn is and has always been about alot more than gangsta rap.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 29, 2006 11:07 AM

The people of Clinton Hill are lucky to have a drug marketplace located so nearby. When you buy drugs, the last thing you want to do is have to travel to areas you don't know very well. To have it in your own backyard is a huge advantage. If the cops run the sellers off, it'll be Clinton Hill's loss. Here's hoping they come to Park Slope!

Posted by: Mark at June 29, 2006 11:11 AM

The 10 Crack Commandments, RIP Biggie Smalls

I been in this game for years, it made me a animal
There's rules to this shit, I wrote me a manual
A step by step booklet for you to get
your game on track, not your wig pushed back

--Rule nombre uno: never let no one know
how much, dough you hold, cause you know
The cheddar breed jealousy 'specially
if that man fucked up, get your ass stuck up

--Number two: never let em know your next move
Don't you know Bad Boys move in silence and violence
Take it from your highness (uh-huh)
I done squeezed mad clips at these cats for they bricks and chips

--Number three: never trust no-bo-dy
Your moms'll set that ass up, properly gassed up
Hoodie to mask up, shit, for that fast buck
she be layin in the bushes to light that ass up

--Number four: know you heard this before
Never get high, on your own supply

--Number five: never sell no crack where you rest at
I don't care if they want a ounce, tell em bounce

--Number six: that god damn credit, dead it
You think a crackhead payin you back, shit forget it

--Seven: this rule is so underrated
Keep your family and business completely seperated
Money and blood don't mix like two dicks and no bitch
Find yourself in serious shit

--Number eight: never keep no weight on you
Them cats that squeeze your guns can hold jobs too

--Number nine shoulda been number one to me
If you ain't gettin bags stay the fuck from police (uh-huh)
If niggaz think you snitchin they ain't tryin listen
They be sittin in your kitchen, waitin to start hittin

--Number ten: a strong word called consignment
Strictly for live men, not for freshmen
If you ain't got the clientele say hell no
Cause they gon want they money rain sleet hail snow
Follow these rules you'll have mad bread to break up
If not, twenty-four years, on the wake up
Slug hit your temple, watch your frame shake up
Caretaker did your makeup, when you pass
Your girl fucked my man Jake up, heard in three weeks
she sniffed a whole half of cake up
Heard she suck a good dick, and can hook a steak up
Gotta go gotta go, more pies to bake up, word up, uhh

Posted by: Anonymous at June 29, 2006 11:17 AM

Biggie Smalls,

I enjoyed his music too. Yes...he hustled on that corner, but when he got a record deal and made some $$$, he moved to a nice place in Jersey...so everyone wants and deserves a nice and peaceful place to rest their heads. Let's not further glorify this lifestyle...Thank you.

Posted by: faithful at June 29, 2006 11:53 AM

Crack should not be glorified, you idiots!

Posted by: bmeterp at June 29, 2006 12:14 PM

Whats up with this comment:
"Yo. This was one of Biggie Small Crack spots. Dont hate the game...... This is TRUE BRooklyn."

Thats like saying:
"Im happy that they reinstated slavery. Dont hate the game... Thats TRUE America"

Posted by: Bruklin at June 29, 2006 12:18 PM

i live on the block and wondered what was happening. it would have been nice for them to at least inform all of the brownstone owners, oh well. i had to show my driver's license to park on the block.

kind of nice for it to be closed off, my kids can ride their bike in the middle of the street and pretend to live in the suburbs.

hopefully, it will work. now those drug dealers and junkies will be someone else's problem. yahoo!

Posted by: Anonymous at June 29, 2006 1:17 PM

funny how theres no mention in this story that recent homicide on the corner had nothing to do with the drug dealers but was between two guys arguing over a girl.

Posted by: anon at June 29, 2006 1:29 PM

that's great they're doing something finally, but what does blocking off the street do? i guess i dont' understand the point of that, aside from the symbolism that the cops are in charge on the street.

Posted by: Jimmy Legs at June 29, 2006 1:42 PM

there's attitude for ya."it would have been nice for them to at least inform all of the brownstone owners".
Remember the good old days when only landowners could vote.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 29, 2006 1:42 PM

went to the deli on the corner for the first time (!) and the guy seemed really put out by the blockade. all his regulars were bitching about it too...did they lose their supply? is he a part of it? it's really not very inconvenient - only for drivers and I'd assume, this being NYC, that he's not losing business as foot traffic is not impeded at all...
signer,
a renter

Posted by: lady resident at June 29, 2006 1:52 PM

I was in that deli ('hole in the wall')a couple of weeks ago and a strung-out skinny guy burst in holding a small brown paper bag. He handed it to the man behind the counter who peered inside, dug around and then handed it back. He gestured toward the supply of OTC drugs behind him and told the skinny guy that he couldn't use it- he needed Tylenol. What a joint- buying stolen drugs from a civilian during the lunch hour. That place is a complete shithole and the lowest of the neighborhood's low seem to flock to it like moths to a flame. Hope it goes tits up ASAP, it's practically an open sewer.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 29, 2006 2:06 PM

I remember when they closed off 10th street in the east village after someone of Columbian origin opened up with an AK-47. They used to close off Clinton Street at both ends and run the dealers into a big "net" in the middle. I remember seeing this dealer running for his life. He stopped to rest, and bang, this dirty homeless guy who was sitting on the sidewalk, springs up and arrests the kid. He was a cop.

Be careful citizens as if you are a law abiding young black male without ID you may just end up spending the weekend in jail until they sort out the mistake. Blocking the street took awhile, but it worked. It eliminates the drive by traffic, then the foot traffic, then when the dealers can't pay their rent, they start moving back into their mother's places.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 29, 2006 2:45 PM

It's not an inconvenience. And if, as an added bonus, the blockade takes care of the yahoos on motorbikes with loud mufflers who have been endlessly circling the block for the last three weeks, I will be extra pleased.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 29, 2006 2:57 PM

to: anon 1:42
from: anon 1:17

our houses that we own, work hard to own, and plan on owning for a while, is on the block that is closed off. don't be a hater cause you ain't one of us. nobody gave me anything, we work and worked hard to have all that we have. yes, we should have been informed, remember that thing called property tax? renter don't pay it, but owners do.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 29, 2006 3:00 PM

On another note, public officials are indeed listening and taking appropriate action, albeit slowly. Last week an area resident correctly pointed out at the 88th Community Council meeting that the Lefferts Place Hotel had bought an adjacent legal four family brownstone and illegally converted (10 apts) and attached it to the hotel. I'm happy to report that DOB agents were observed inspecting the hotel premises and noted that the hotel annex was indeed illegally converted and riddled with building code violations. How a business establishment can illegally convert residential property in a historic brownstone community to faciliate an ongoing drug and prostitution criminal enterprise is beyond my level of comprehension?!? The public outrage is well overdue and I sincerely hope that the legal action filed under the nuisance abatement law bears fruit. No residential community should have to tolerate such a deplorable business next door - a true "menance to society". Same goes for the drug activity on Putnam and Grand. Cosgrove and Hynes should be applauded for recent efforts to address quality of life issues in southeastern Clinton Hill.

Posted by: Justathought at June 29, 2006 3:49 PM

Gated communities complete with police blockade and ID check!! What has Brownstone Brooklyn become?


Do you have to call the front gate now to let the guards know that your friends are coming?

Posted by: Anonymous at June 29, 2006 3:55 PM

3:00 -- your point has nothing to do with nothing.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 29, 2006 4:06 PM

heh. my point is that you don't own a house so ha ha ha ha ha. i pay property taxes you don't. ha ha ha ha. you will be gone as a renter, since your lease will expire and i will sit in my big beautiful brownstone watching you in your uhaul, so ha ha ha ha.

all i said is that they should have informed us. got a problem with that?

Posted by: Anonymous at June 29, 2006 4:52 PM

Don't like drugs?

Fine.

Don't buy any.

Posted by: Mark at June 29, 2006 5:57 PM

anon 3:55,
you like crack whores wobbling down your street? you like thugs staring you down as you walk by every day, daring you to tell the cops what you just saw? Thank God the police are finally doing something. this is not draconian, this is results oriented. this is far from a gated community. we are not sliding key cards into some titanium gate as our luxury cars idle. we are trying to live in the city in a way that makes sense for everyone who's law abiding, raising a family, getting to a job, etc.
go spout your pseudo theories elsewhere. you sound like a college freshman.
and "mark", if you're so into drugs, why don't you cmoe to the community meetings, show your face and stand behind your position...

Posted by: Anonymous at June 29, 2006 6:23 PM

biggie's brooklyn is no more. i'd say the new version is more billy joel than b.i.g.

Posted by: franz fanonymous at June 29, 2006 7:01 PM

Anon at 6:23PM, no, I don't like crack whores wobbling down my street or menacing stares from thugs. I also don't like hot weather and egg plant. Come to think of it, I'm not too crazy about smart asses, either.

Sounds to me like you just don't like city life. You might consider moving to...I don't know, Arkansas or something.

Posted by: Mark at June 29, 2006 9:40 PM

not to mention a large piece of the facade from the illegally converted brownstone (part of the lefferts hotel) fell off recently and smashed the neighbors steel gate. this place is a mess. what can we do to help affect change?

Posted by: Anonymous at June 30, 2006 9:15 AM

I own too. Just think the "owners only" attitude is gonna kick your karmic ass one of these days.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 30, 2006 10:00 AM

"biggie's brooklyn is no more. i'd say the new version is more billy joel than b.i.g."

I'm sure the residents of Brownsville and East New York will be relieved to hear this.

Posted by: Tom at June 30, 2006 10:28 AM

This isn't just city life or local color or Biggie's Brooklyn any other happy face you want to put on it. It's criminal behavior that's been allowed to persist for far too long. The party's over, or let's hope so.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 30, 2006 2:17 PM

it is not an "owner's attitude", it is a simple statement of fact. we should have been notified, what is wrong with that? why do you have such a problem with it? information is key, do you read the newspaper or listen to npr or would you prefer to be oblivious to what is going on?

Posted by: Anonymous at June 30, 2006 3:35 PM

why owners only?

Posted by: Anonymous at June 30, 2006 3:46 PM

Pretty sure they don't notify neighbors before drugs raids/sweeps. The reason is clear. Think for 10 seconds

Posted by: Anonymous at June 30, 2006 4:13 PM

Okay, but they should still tell the OWNERS!

Posted by: Anonymous at June 30, 2006 5:19 PM

I don't know about your block, but on mine some of the owners ARE the drug dealers. Makes block association meetings a little tense - they show up to find out whether there are any anti-drug initiatives in the works. So no, any serious effort at law enforcement in this area should definitely NOT notify the owners. What makes you think all owners are law abiding citizens?

Posted by: Anonymous at June 30, 2006 7:14 PM

this was not a drug raid, so they could have notified us that the street was going to be blocked off. if it were a spontaneous drug raid then fine, i understand. this, however, was not and is not the case!

how could they notify tenants if their names are not in the city records? my name is in the records, as i get the tax bills. to insult me, to think that i don't think is ridiculous. my husband and i have too many degrees and are people who probably think way too much and that is why we wanted to be notified as to what is going on in our community and on our block.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 30, 2006 7:40 PM

Most reasonable people, including those of us with only a couple of degrees, would put the greater good of the neighborhood before any personal inconvenience.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 30, 2006 8:17 PM

the greater good of the neighborhood is to inform people. i read the nyts and am so happy that they told me about what the president is doing with bank accounts. perhaps you agree with the president and vice president and do not think that people should be informed, but i on the otherhand along with my husband believe that knowledge is power.

i also am african american and perhaps you can believe what the government tells you? as a black person in america, i know what the government does without telling us--have you read about the tuskeegee experiment?

what do you care? right?

Posted by: Anonymous at June 30, 2006 10:06 PM

Right on 10:06PM! Most of the regular posters on this site are, at the end of the day, racist crackers, only with a veneer of courtesy. And in saying this I especially mean to include Brownbomber.

Posted by: Darrell at July 1, 2006 7:20 AM

Not only have I read about it, I can spell it. It's TUSKEGEE.

Not that it has anything to do with this discussion, other than to prompt your one-man fan club into cheering you on with nonsensical piffle about 'racist crackers.'

Posted by: Anonymous at July 1, 2006 3:07 PM

They could have put a flyer in everyone's mail box; that would notify the renters and the owners, wouldn't it?

You don't really think they would go through the real estate records to notify all the owners, do you? Would they have to wait a week to make sure everyone got the letter? Or look up the phone numbers in the book? I don't think so!

Posted by: Anonymous at July 1, 2006 3:10 PM

You are all insane.

Posted by: anon at July 1, 2006 3:47 PM

You suck! yes you YO! with all those patetic lirics of biggie.... who cares of what he said I struggled at that corner as many other do today and as soon as he made his way out he dissapear, get those junkies out they are disgusting!!!!!!! do you have kids???? I Hope you do, so they can play at the corner around those F........s you are trying to defend

Posted by: Anonymous at July 1, 2006 11:39 PM

BrownBomber a racist cracker? He is black you moron!!!!

Posted by: Anonymous at July 2, 2006 9:45 AM

I don't understand what the big fuss is over notifying homeowners or anyone about closing off the block. They still would have closed it off, whether you liked it or not. Seems to me that extreme measures needed to be taken, and a little inconvenience is the price for public safety. Maybe that's the first step on a slippery slope, I don't know, but if the police want to close my block off to stop the drug deals on my block, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 2, 2006 10:23 AM

He may be black on the outside, but he is white as a lilly on the inside. He has demonstrated this time and time again.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 2, 2006 10:23 AM

It is a ridiculous notion that it is racist to want to get rid of drug dealers, prostitutes, guns etc. These are goals that any law-abiding member of the community should be for. To accuse a black person of being anti-black for supporting these measures is an insult to black people. The police should be commended for finally taking action, not nit-picked to death because they didn't write you a personal note. How inconvenienced were you really? And how does your personal inconvenience pale in comparison to the huge increase in quality of life this could bring to the neighborhood? Get a grip.

Posted by: Brownstoner at July 2, 2006 11:22 AM

translation: I AM WHITE, AND QUITE WELL OFF!!!!!!

Posted by: Anonymous at July 2, 2006 12:05 PM

Why would beng black and not-so-well-off make you against cleaning up the street. The only thing reason we can think of that a lower income renter--black or white--would be against improving the neighborhood would be that it might translate into further gentrification, rising rents, etc. Are we on the right track?

Posted by: Brownstoner at July 2, 2006 6:36 PM

Thanks, Douglas. That's a much more thoughtful response. In the end, though, you can't really blame people for wanting to make the street that their children have to walk down everyday a safer place. That's hardly racist. It's called being a good parent. You're right, though, that the drug dealers will just relocate somewhere else.

Posted by: Brownstoner at July 2, 2006 8:16 PM

And black parents don't want the same thing?

Posted by: Anonymous at July 2, 2006 11:24 PM

For what it's worth, we've already spoken with three of our black neighbors about the police presence and they're thrilled, so you can stop your race baiting. No one has yet offered a credible explanation for why a black parent would not be in favor of removing the drug dealers.

Posted by: Brownstoner at July 3, 2006 8:56 AM

This is ridiculous. To think that black people don't want the crime cleaned up, especially since it also benefits white people, is absurd. To defend such a position is the same as agreeing with the equally absurd notion many black kids(and their parents) have that it isn't cool to do well in school, and that you aren't really "black" if you speak standard English, succeed academically, and go on to higher education.

We need to stop worrying about the white folks and their ulterior motives, and start fixing our priorities and attitudes. I disagree with many of the conservative social opinions of Brown Bomber, but he is 100% correct on this issue, and in his intolerance for this kind of crime. He also doesn't need anonymous people telling him he's not really black, who the hell are any of us to define someone we've never even met? What is "black"?

Drug dealing and drug use should not have a black face always attached to it. The "pharmacutical entrepeneurs" in our midst need to go. They are not glamorous, or urban survivors, or rapping heroes who have beaten the Man. They are criminals who are a blight on our communities. Nothing more.

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at July 3, 2006 9:39 AM

FYI, Darrell, Douglas, Anon 8:08 and Anon 9:00 (7/2) are all the same person. Please stick to one name--all you do is undermine your position by resorting to multiple personalities.

Posted by: Brownstoner at July 3, 2006 11:05 AM

I would urge you to check again. I have posted under no other name than my own.

Posted by: Darrell at July 3, 2006 11:18 AM

Brownstoner, may I ask why you would bother to examine Darrell's post with such scrutiny? It's your blog and you can do whatever you want, of course; but it looks 'funny' that you'd go after these posts...i.e., it looks like you subjected them to special scrutiny simply because you don't like their content.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 3, 2006 11:45 AM

We should have been more specific. Those four posts were from the same IP address. As for why we examined it, we usually try to look more closely at the source of comments when they are rude or inflammatory. Calling people "racist crackers" qualifies.

Posted by: Brownstoner at July 3, 2006 12:07 PM

That makes no sense. Isn't an IP address specific to a particular computer? If so, then those posts could not be from the same IP address (well, not unless people are breaking into my apartment when I'm not hear and posting to Brownstoner.com).

Posted by: Darrell at July 3, 2006 12:23 PM

I don't get why my 10:03 AM post was deleted.

Re post:

"Darrell and Anon - 'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our mind!'

Nothing breaks my heart more than hearing blacks folks attack other black folks simply because one groups calls for the uplifting of standards in the black community. I don't get it."

Did this statement warrant deletion?

Brownstoner, I will give you the benefit of the doubt in that you probably wanted to avoid the high jacking of this thread by the troll. However, whether Darrell/Douglas/Anon is a troll or not is truly immaterial. His views, which are more prevalent than one would imagine, explain precisely why there is a drug problem on Putnam and Grand and why it has endured for decades! The attitude of the black community towards crime and law enforcement should be discussed when introduced on this board. Otherwise, you're ignoring a huge part of the problem.

Posted by: BrownBomber at July 3, 2006 12:29 PM

Thanks BrownBomber, but I don't want any help from you.

You can label me a troll, a jerk or whatever you want. It's all because you don't like what I'm saying, and if you don't like it, that's tough.

Don't worry Brownstoner, you don't have to block my access to this pristine, white board. I see where things are headed. So, I'll go away. But don't think for a minute that my ideas, my point of view or my brothers are going away. We're here to stay, so live with it.

Posted by: Darrell at July 3, 2006 12:54 PM

We don't want anyone to go away, but we do want people to be able to engage in civil discourse without name calling, especially when it comes to such a touchy subject as race. The irony is that such hyperbolic ranting only serves to undermine any argument. You're much more likely to have your arguments taken seriously if you refrain from that kind of language.
Thanks
p.s. BrownBomber, we didn't mean to delete your post. Must've gotten caught up in the spam deletion that we seem to spend most of our time on these days!

Posted by: Brownstoner at July 3, 2006 1:46 PM

"His views, which are more prevalent than one would imagine, explain precisely why there is a drug problem on Putnam and Grand and why it has endured for decades!"

I find this remark interesting and, in some ways, telling. The drug problem is not the result of the disadvantages and limited options open to black and relatively poor people. It's not the result of a cycle of discrimination that has been operating non-stop for centuries. It's not the result of hopelessness and despair. Instead, it's the result of black people's "failure" to have the right "view" of law enforcement.

I guess we're just too lazy and shiftless to have the "right" view, huh Brownbomber.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 3, 2006 1:47 PM

First of all, 1:47, I don't think that's what BB meant, but I will leave it to him to defend his positions.

Secondly, we, as a people, need to get a grip on who the real enemy is here. The thief who stole my purse was not my sister, nor was the creep who broke into my house, my brother.

But if you want to think of things that way, our brothers and sisters, the black police officers who are trying to catch these criminals, and the brothers and sisters in the justice system - the ADA's, court officers, corrections officials, judges, etc. deserve our respect and cooperation.

People are not good, or evil, or law abiding or criminals, because of their race. That's what we have been fighting for hundreds of years. People are people, all capable of great good and great evil. Can we stop this "the white man kept him down, and that's why he's dealing drugs,mugging people, whatever." What happened to personal responsibility and morals? Not everyone poor or disadvantaged becomes a criminal, or is a failure, just as not everyone who has all the advantages is successful, or law abiding.

I think discussions about race, crime, neighborhoods, gentrification are all good, and can bring greater understanding between all of us, and your voice and opinions are as valuable as the next person's. But just as we don't want all black people to be lumped together as some monolithic block that thinks alike, votes alike, worships alike, spends alike, and has the same cultural likes and dislikes, don't get sucked into that by insisting that Brown Bomber, you, myself and every other black person in America has to also think the same on issues of crime and punishment.

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at July 3, 2006 2:48 PM

"Please leave this blog alone. Please get help."

Kindly take your own advice.

That's it for me on this one.

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at July 3, 2006 3:57 PM

Janet- you were already outed by Mr. B as one of the multiple schizphrenic personalities of the troll annoying people on this board. Don't you ever tire of being infantile and moronic? Or do you just not have a life and this is the only way to get your kicks? I pity you. You are one sorry puppy.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 3, 2006 11:12 PM

Nope- I remember you from the last go-round. You posted before and by checking isp addresses you were outed. Deal with it. And get a life.

Posted by: Anonymous at July 4, 2006 9:08 AM

It seems that some of the mayhem has drifted from Gates to Classon. Last night I saw a fight and a shooting in front of my house. The shooter didn't hit anything but he did manage to shoot out a car window. The cops showed up, milled around and left. I presume we'll start seeing foot patrols on Classon.

Posted by: ClassonClassy at July 4, 2006 12:57 PM

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