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May 8, 2006
The Word on the Fort Greene House Tour: Eclectic
We haven't been able to find out exactly how many people came out yesterday for the Fort Green House Tour but the Fort Greene Association was able to tell us that ticket sales far exceeded anything in past years and we hear that the parents of PS20 made a "killing" on their official House Tour Bake Sale Table. (Check out the line for tickets at top and the line to look at one of the houses at right.) The glorious weather couldn't have hurt either! We kicked things off at the Williamsburgh Bank Building and then made our way, baby on our back, through seven or eight of the houses. There was quite a range this year, from the 25-year-long period restoration project at 30 South Oxford to the polished concrete floor at 203 Washington Park. It's gonna take us the whole week to get through all our photos and commentary, so stay tuned. We're curious to hear what the highlights of the tour were for others.
28th Annual House Tour [Fort Greene Association]
Get Psyched for the FG House Tour [Brownstoner]
Comments
Did the tour this Sunday - skipped all but one brownstone (Clermont) and skipped the Bank. Wow, incredible plaster ceilings in all the houses. Not so crazy about any of the kitchens I saw, so I'm still looking for ideas for our brownstone kitchen. It really feels like having a kitchen in the back parlor with an island really shrinks the rooms - and these are 20+footers.
My favorite house has to be the 2nd Empire - love the feminine plaster mouldings in the parlor. Another notable mention is the lovingly handcrafted kitchen in another house(I forget the street).
Posted by: Anonymous at May 8, 2006 9:06 AM
i was bummed out that we had to miss it! so i'm looking forward to more photos and commentary...
Posted by: lc at May 8, 2006 9:09 AM
I didn't love the concrete-floored parlor that I saw, primarily because the rest of the house looked like it retained some of the details - I found the woodwork on the staircase discordant with the open, light parlor. Also, there was some cabinetry around the staircase that was in white and didn't really go with the rest of the room. And the grey of the kitchen cabinets blended too much with the cement floors (which I really liked, BTW). I would have liked to see a gutted staircase that was floating - that would have been really cool.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 8, 2006 9:09 AM
My boyfriend and I are fans of the modern, so many of the uber-victorian renovations were a bit stuffy for us. Too much toile and chintz. We LOVED the contemporary gut reno--the Washington Park Parlor through. The floor to ceiling windows in the back were great--I loved how the master bedroom windows looked right over the garden , bringing the outdoors indooors.
Posted by: msvalery at May 8, 2006 9:21 AM
The second empire on the park was by far the best preserved and museum-like. Malymis and I thought the glass wall at the back of the very contemporary duplex with the polished concrete floor was impressive, but wondered about privacy issues--in fact, you could see into its bedroom from another house on the tour. I would have liked to have seen a house that combined historic details with modern furnishings in an interesting way; I didn't think any of these really did that. My favorite part of the tour was the colossal japanese maple in the backyard of the last house (on Clermont). Incredible.
Posted by: Megan at May 8, 2006 9:36 AM
Please please post pix soon - we were really looking forward to the tour but then had to miss it..
Posted by: Anonymous at May 8, 2006 10:41 AM
Brownstoner-- looking forward to your photos. Could you include one of the polished concrete floor? (We're about to undertake something similar in our basement.)
Posted by: naomi at May 8, 2006 2:01 PM
Funny about the concrete floor at 203. They've been working on it for a while, and they literally moved in three weeks ago, and they're already on the house tour!
Posted by: willingd at May 8, 2006 3:50 PM
what about those two retail stores who made it on to the tour? A similar feeling to being forced into the giftshop when exiting Lion King! In very poor taste!
Posted by: Anonymous at May 8, 2006 4:04 PM
You know what - you could have skipped the shops, like me and headed jsut for brownstones. Cautionary about concrete floors - I think it really limits your resale market. 90% of people prefer wood floors.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 8, 2006 4:18 PM
Yes, I suppose I could have skipped the stores but not being familiar with the neighborhood or addresses and it was advertised as a "house tour" I naturally assumed I would be seeing houses. Normally one does not have to 'pay' to have the privilege of shopping in a retail store.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 8, 2006 4:21 PM
What did people think of the preview of the planned development for carlton? it seemed touch and go as the owner/developer's(???) attempt to put the best possible light on the new plan didn't always meet w/success.
Does anyone know how long those plans have been in the works? when did the current owners/developers buy the property?
Posted by: anon at May 8, 2006 5:09 PM
preview for the carlton development?!!
oh, now i'm really upset that i missed the house tour. please fill me in on everything! the property touches my backyard.
Posted by: lc at May 8, 2006 5:23 PM
Met the developer at the party afterwards. Seems like a good guy, very willing to work with the neighborhood and was a sponsor of the tour. He has not done anything in B'klyn before mostly in Tribecca but has two partners who have developed in Dumbo and Williamsburg. He is preserving as much of the Church as possible and is working with Landmarks. The entrance will be on Carlton. They will be condos with parking (for purchase) and shared outdoor space. The largest will be a 1700 sq. ft. 3 bedroom (duplex or triplex I forget.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 8, 2006 5:32 PM
This development is fine, urban design is totally ok (but devil is in details of course)
There is no point to be worried about this when Atlantic Yards monstrosity is coming.
Posted by: malymis at May 8, 2006 6:07 PM
Modern style should be in modern houses. If the house is victorian it should keep the period details and not be stripped modern.
Modernist need to keep their gut reno-ing mits of the old houses and move into a detail-less post war place.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 8, 2006 6:18 PM
The Second Empire house on Washington Park was stunning both for the east-west light that flooded the parlor floor and for the beautiful view of Fort Greene Park -- like looking out at your own private 18th century estate. And all the more surprising because that row of houses is rather somber and imposing from the sidewalk so I wasn't expecting such a bright interior. My other favorite was the 1845 Carlton Ave Greek Revival house with side wing. Gorgeous elegant architecture and a refreshingly NOT done-up-to-the-nines feel to it. Still lots of potential for continuing their sensitive renovation/restoration. But did others notice how the planned development adjacent to this house includes a building that would encroach on the yard of this house and actually be built right across the windowless rear wall of the wing? I wonder what kind of deal the home owners worked out with the developer to give him the go-ahead for such a radical incursion?
Posted by: Anon at May 8, 2006 6:31 PM
FLOOR TIP: the owners of the house on South Portland used Watco (a type of tung oil) on their new oak floors instead of polyurethane. It looked beautiful (very soft, satin finish) and they said water just beads up on the surface so spills are simple to deal with; it's also easy to retouch scratches (which of course you can't do with poly).
Posted by: Anonymous at May 8, 2006 6:40 PM
"Not so crazy about any of the kitchens I saw, so I'm still looking for ideas for our brownstone kitchen. It really feels like having a kitchen in the back parlor with an island really shrinks the rooms - and these are 20+footers."
anon at 9:06am,
I converted a rear parlor of a 20ft building into a kitchen and I'd like to think ours was particularly well-planned to retain an open, airy feel. No pictures to post, but the one universal is that yes, an island is an absolute necessity because the big challenge with a rear parlor is the total lack of space for overhead cabs.
Our space had virtually no wall space against which to build due to a large windown, door to deck, two sets of pocket doors, and fireplace mantle.
One thing, which I feel helped us was that we custom designed all the furniture and cabinetry for the kitchen. This is a situation where inches matter and we spent days with our architect, mapping an outline of the kitchen on the floor in masking tape, as well as making cardboard models to test our designs.
We ended up putting the range in an alcove one one side of the room. We also converted a closet to a pantry and you wouldn't believe how much you can stuff into a tall pantry with built-in shelving (on the door too) vs. conventional cabinets. The pantry also contains a small microwave. We also utilized another closet to house an all-refrigerator SubZero (the only thing that would fit) and got an undercounter freezer/ice maker for the island. With appliances like the fridge, freezer, and microwave hidden behind doors, the kitchen doesn't really look much like a conventional kitchen except for the range.
The 7ft by 3ft (approx) island contains sink, D/W, undercounter freezer, and lots of storage. The elevated back of the island (bar height) serves the purpose of deliniating the kitchen from the dining area.
The dining area easily fits large groups and everything is within easy reach.
While this was obviously a "high-end" reno, it also was not an unlimited budget situation. I think that with some extremely careful planning, a rear parlor kitchen conversion can be done in a way that still feels right and in keeping with a historic house's character.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 8, 2006 7:29 PM
Anon at 7:20pm - thanks for all the comments. But I beg to disagree - obviously, I haven't seen your place but if you saw the S. Portland house & the 2nd Empire - both had islands and this really shrunk the dining area for me. Also, my house is a 17-footer so it'll be even more cramped. I have done several kitchen renovations in the past (post-war apt kitchens) with full overhead cabs and we really never used them much. Primarily because I am the main user of the kitchen and I am only 5'2" :) Also, I had empty cabinets when I had an 8x13 kitchen so I think it'll be okay without an island. The rear parlor/kitchen will also be our dining area (we're renting out the garden) so I am really fighting the crammed look. I am hoping for an L or U shaped kitchen ... Any more comments?
Posted by: Anonymous at May 8, 2006 8:33 PM
occupy the entire house and put your kitchen on the garden floor like we die. the front of the garden floor is a tv room/family room. the back parlor is the library. it is not cramped at all.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 8, 2006 9:04 PM
I wish we could have the whole house but 3k/month is too much to give up.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 8, 2006 9:13 PM
Anon 7:29 - your kitchen reno sounds just like the kitchen in the house on 4th Street in Park Slope, which was just sold through BHS - the house I dream of every night (oh but I wish I could have bought it):
http://www.bhsbrooklyn.com/detail.asp?id=475575
Posted by: Anonymous at May 8, 2006 9:57 PM
for 3k/month i'd get rid of some of the kitchen stuff, then i'd need less cabinets, feel less cramped and have the $ to boot!
Posted by: anon at May 8, 2006 10:17 PM
what shops were on the house tour?
Posted by: zeb at May 9, 2006 9:08 AM
and why?
Posted by: zeb at May 9, 2006 9:10 AM
Re- S. Portland House. Floor finish is Waterlox, not Watco. It's my friend's house and we've both used it for years. The advantage is that you can re-coat without sanding when you need to, like in high traffic areas. And the finish is very warm and natural. Check out the Waterlox website for more info.
The kitchen dilemma-we had the same problem, and our house is 20' wide. We really wanted a serious kitchen AND a real dining area, and it was hard to do both in the same room. Then our designer came over one day and said he got an epiphany on the subway--put the kitchen in the front of the house!
Our house was a total dump when we bought it, so changing the floorplan was not an issue. So we have a big sunny kitchen in the front (two walls of cabs and a center island), a (small) formal dining room in the center, and a really nice well-proportioned living room in the back with doors to the deck. This may not work for many, particularly if you have a front parlor with lots of detail that you want to preserve. But our front parlor was pretty stripped, so it worked for us.
Posted by: tinarina at May 9, 2006 10:30 AM
From anon at 7:29pm to anon at 8:33pm,
To each his or her own. If your house is a 17 footer then I can totally understand excluding the island. I like my set-up because the sink is directly opposite the stove (very convenient) and the fridge (and freezer) are one step away (the magic kitchen triangle really works; i.e. stove, sink, kitchen should form a triangular relationship). Wish I could draw you a picture. Storage is important to us because we wanted everything to look put away. Yet, we did not want a the look of a lot of cabs - we wanted it to look more like antique furniture that happens to be in a kitchen. And we also wanted to kind of hide the extra-large range, so as mentioned, the island has a 1ft deep, raised back, so when you are sitting at the dining table, all the kitchen clutter, sink, stove, dirty dishes, etc are hidden from view. After all, it's fairly imposible to cook and then magically make the mess go away before sitting down to eat. I really like this arrangement. I probably feels airy because the room has so many doors and windows - hence the original challenge of not having much wall space to work with. An L-shape or U-shape would have been impossible for us without interferring with a door or window access.
anon at 9:57pm,
I only see one photo of the kitchen in that link. There might be some similarities, but my kitchen lloks a lot different from than one. 1st of all I think my bldg is wider, so I can fit a full sized dining table that expands to seat 8 on the other side of the island. Also my island has a bar-height one foot wide counter-top facing the dining table to provide more separation btwn cooking and dining, hide the mess in the kitchen (see above discussion) and to provide a backspash for the sink.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 9, 2006 2:08 PM
anon at 9:57pm,
I just another look at the 4th st house link and realized where they put the stove (against the rear wall). Ugh!
That would never work for me. The range is much to far away from the sink (and I am guessing fridge is across from the sink. The magic triangle has been violated!
Anon at 10:30am,
We considered the kitchen in the front option, but that room was the nicest room in our house and we wanted the kitchen to open out onto our deck and easy access to the outdoor grill (where we do much of our summer cooking).
So many trade-offs with modernizing these houses. No perfect solution.
Posted by: anon at 7:29pm at May 9, 2006 2:14 PM
Sorry for all the above typos that make my posts sound completely illiterate.
;)
Posted by: anon at 7:29pm at May 9, 2006 2:17 PM
stores on the tour were S. Portland Antiques and Yu.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 9, 2006 3:54 PM
Thanks for correcting me re. the Waterlox floor finish.
Regarding kitchen layouts, we have a U-shape. We had planned for a small island but never got round to building it and probably never will at this point. While we'd love to have more counterspace, we are OK for storage. That's because we have large English 19th century free-standing cupboard (about 54' wide by 78' high) in one alcove of the dining area which serves as a very ample pantry.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 9, 2006 5:16 PM
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