Open House Picks

A varied and interesting group of houses this week, Mr. B.

Is it me, or does the Carroll Street listing seem a tad over priced. The house is nice enough from the pix, sort of a clean slate, but I'm not blown away by the bathroom or kitchen, and there seems to be a lot of painted woodwork. I would have thought more like $2.3...

I thought Maple Street was Doctor's Row...? Bob?

Nice street and nice house in Sunset Park.

The PLG place does have a nice facade, though I would be a little nervous about living there.

12:07pm,

Carroll St btwn 7th and 8th is about as prime Park Slope as it gets. For a 20 ft-wide, 1fam, 4-story, home in clean, move-in condition, I think asking $2.95mm is not out of bounds. I'd guess it goes for more like $2.75mm.

The $2.3mm you suggest is more like below 7th Av pricing.

The description of the tenant situation on madison st. is interesting as well. Neither tenant has a lease, could (maybe) be delivered vacant, etc. Seems a little dicey.

All 4 listings strike me as overpriced, given the market. Carroll street is nice, but I agree that 2.3 is more realistic. 900K for Sunset Park also seems way too high. The Parkside house looks nice too, but with a fully renovated 4 story townhouse on Rutland being reduced by 150K and the limestone on Maple still sitting on the market at 975K, 880K for Parkside seems a bit delusional. Ditto for the BedStuy house, which isn't even nice.

It seems like there are 2 markets out there now. One reflects the reduced prices of the current market and the other steadfastly ingnores the changed situation and keeps trying to push the envelope. Very stange...

1:43pm,

You are at least half-right. Better, get used to the bifurcated market concept.

One market that serves the typcial 1st time buyer of limited means and an entirely different market geared towards an affluent buyer with substantial means and a desire to put down big bucks to live exactly where they want and exactly in the type of house want to live in. Park Slope attracts both, but to get into a prime-location bstone in PS requires being the latter.

Whoever buys the Carroll St house for upper-2's is going to be well-heeled and looking at a long-term play. They're buying a place to live for the next 20 years, and possibly longer. That market may be a relatively small part of the market, but it's not likely to see a "correction" anytime soon.

You might want to rethink your concept of over-priced when it comes to this particular market.

If the Carroll Street house goes for ask or over, it is definitely a matter of location. The house is very "nice" but hardly extraordinary in terms of renovation. It may be prime, but it ain't Montgomery.

2:05pm,

Duh! Of course location is driving price. And 4000sf of nicely detailed living space ain't exactly slumming it.

Would agree with whomever pointed out the kitchen sucks. But, a $100K kitchen reno for the slob who buys this baby would be a drop in the bucket.

Sunset Park looks well priced based on what's happening in that area. Corcoran is listing new properties of this caliber in the $950-$1M range and they seem to be moving.

Based on the condition, original details, location (across from the park), and flexibility to have 0, 1, or 2 rental units to offset the mortgage, I think this property is priced well and will sell in a reasonable amount of time.

I think those who think that these properties are well priced are in for a shock. I know I'm not the only would-be buyer who is taking a wait-and-see approach and isn't going to buy anything for at least 6 months--at which point prices will be at least 10% lower. You'd have to be a fool to pay that much for Sunset Park, PLG, or BS at this point in time.

3:33pm,

Maybe so, but how long are you planning to wait. Six months in r.e. terms is not a long time. Prices are extremely sticky. Most sellers don't actually have to sell. They can wait it out too, and usually do. Seller mindset takes years, not months to change, absent some extremely compelling reason like a job relocation or job loss, etc.

Under no market condition should you ever rush to make such a large purchase. But, on the other hand, don't let the news of corrections in other parts of the country or region lull you into trying to time your purchase either, especially if you plan to settle into your home for many years. If you're a flipper or a developer, then that's a whole other story. If you're buying a home for a long-run, then pay what you can pay, don't time.

The ups and downs of the market may be nerve racking, but it will all come out in the wash.

I think the Carroll St house is asking $2.95mm with the intention of settling for around $2.7mm, which would reflect the discount for the crappy kitchen/baths.

4:07, it isn't just other cities. I see price reductions all over the less-desireable regions of Bklyn. And Manhattan coop prices (in the 1M range) have already noticeably declined. It may take more than 6 months to spread everywhere and for recalcitrant sellers and/or brokers to give into reality, but that's cool. I'm in no great rush either. Waiting a year is worth saving 100K plus or being able to afford a nicer location (no offense intended to Bob, but Parkside isn't where I want to live).

4:19,

It's all relative dude. Saving $100K on a $2.3MM house is nothing, assuming you can afford the $2.3MM house to begin with. In that price range, it's a rounding error in the grand scheme of things.

All depends on if you're waiting for a soft market in something that is rare, like a park block PS bstone in mint condition (good luck), or if you're waiting for the coming fire-sale in cookie-cutter condos (where saving a $100K is meaningful).

My points above, were that the Carroll St house is a rarity (location-wise) and priced accordingly to ultimately sell in the $2.75-ish range.

6:34, my 100K figure was based on a 10% reduction of a house currently going for 1M. For the Slope house, I'd expect a savings of closer to 290K, but I still wouldn't be able to afford it. I'll grant you that price decreases in prime slope will be lower (percentage-wise) than those in PLG, Sunset Park, BS, etc. But there will be decreases. Actually I'd expect more than 10% decreases in PLG etc., but we'll see.

Sunset park is a good play right now

We at this computer would buy the Sunset Park house at/near this $$.....

henry at May 12, 2006 04:28 PM,

"I had just bought a house and found it worth at least 15% less in a few months."

When did you buy, '89-'91?

margaret--what is the link on the Maple FSBO? I thought all Maple street limestones had at least the first floor kitchen extension, no? As for the other one at 975, I heard it went for under 950. I need to buy soon, so I can't wait for any crash. But I agree with the person who thinks prices are already going down. I'm being very careful to not pay full asking and to be sure I get a decent deal, since I'm sure prices in the areas I can afford will decline soon. I liked the Maple street house, but there was no way I was going to pay 975 for it! I probably won't want this one either, unless the renovation is much better. I know its risky, but in a year I'll be glad I held out for a better deal.

Parkside house is nice. But the street is not. And I just saw the news and there was a fatal shooting at a PLG apartment building on Bedford. We've been looking in PLG and I never gave the "PLG isn't safe" posts any credence and yes, I know crime happens everywhere, but that is too close for comfort. Now that I've sen the nearby fringes of the area, and with the shooting, I don't think I could feel comfortable there. Which sucks, since it's one of the only areas I can afford. I think we'll start looking in the burbs..

Brownstoner: I second the thanks for including under 1M houses!

All nabes do have crime. And if you know NYC, you know that most neighborhoods change block by block. The fringes are everywhere and as Bob Marvin can tell you, it's far from all bad. He's lived there for years and loves it. I love Crown Heights and I've been told it's dicey. But once you live in a nabe and get to know it, your perspective is different. Also remember that (cold comfort though this may be) the majority of shootings or violence are family disputes. Which means the victims knows or is related to the attacker. But only you can decide what you can and can't be comfortable with. I would hope you do a little more PLG research though. You may lose a real gem (not necessarily this particular house).

The fact that the crime in PLG is drug-related is little comfort. Anyone who watches the news knows that drug-related crime often accidently hits innocent bystanders. When I'm walking with my kids I don't want to be worrying about the possiblity of a drive-by or some dealers shooting at each other. No matter how small that possibility is. Perhaps some think that that is wussy, but my number one concern is my kid's safety.

Bob, wasn't a young boy shot accidentally on Flatbush and Maple right after the West Indian Day Parade a few years ago? Did I misremeber the location?

Any recap on the open houses?

I looked at one of the four story townhouses on Midwood with a friend who is looking to buy in the nabe. It was a stunning house! Really lovely.

I saw the Midwood 4 story too. Loved it! It's in my price range, but I wasn't comfortable with spending that much on the area. Nothing against the area, really, I just don't think a house there is worth near 1.6M in the current market. Seems like a bad investment. If it drops a million or more, and I'm still looking, I'll buy it.

Midwood STREET in Lefferts Manor.

The 178 Maple is already sold, I believe.

Re: shooting Sat night...as per 71st Precinct: "the incident was drug-related. The boyfriend (being questioned) has a checkered past, and is a drug dealer; allegedly. The thieves were looking for money from the boyfriend. When they didn't get the amount they were seeking, they shot the girlfriend. The investigation continues."

The Lefferts Manor Assn communicates often and diligently with the 71st Precinct to a) inform the community properly and squash rumors, and b) partners with Precinct on crime and quality of life issues. When there's a crime, prior to it being reported in the media, Community Affairs officers from the Precinct call select members of the Lefferts Manor Assn. immediately. Yes, PLG has crime. It's almost 100% thug on thug. The trajectory is positive, as it relates to crime reductions in all categories. But still, any news of a fatal chilling, even on a fringe block, is chilling.

I'd say a max of 1.35 for the midwood 4 story and probably 1.25 for the Rutland and Bedford house. Only one house has ever sold in PLG for 1.4 and it was a far superior renovation (central AC, high-end limestone kitchen and baths, all new mechanicals, etc.). These houses are not as "mint" as that one. I'm sure the new Maple street listing will sell in the 9's, but I'd bet low 900's, not 975. Yes, thngs are selling, but they are taking awhile and going for under asking. No one wants to set records on a finge area in this market.

I live on the same block as the Sunset Park house. We have been here since 2000 and the block is quite safe. This is mostly a Mexican neiborhood and is very lively but not particularly noisy. I'd say there is a party in someone's backyard about once in 2-3 months and normally they shut down before 1 AM. The park is very quiet except for the rare occasions when the city has a concert there - perhaps 5 times in the last 6 years??

Nice block and very convenient to the fabulous shopping in Chinatown.

The house seems mechanically sound, but I hate the painted brownstone on the ground floor, and both entrance doors need replacing.

The broker for the Sunset Park property in my experience is rude.