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May 15, 2006

Houses of the Day: St. Marks Beauty Contest

houses
Both of these houses on St. Marks Place between Carlton and 6th seem pricey to us, but the one on the left (#126, we think) seems like a relative bargain at $2.3 million when lined up against the $2.99 million asking price of the one on the right (#144). The $2.3 million 2-family house is quite lovely inside, with oodles of walnut paneling and origingal plaster moldings; were it on the other side of the tracks (Flatbush, that is) it would seem attractively priced to us. Regardless, it's a beautiful place that someone may fall in love with and buy for close to the ask. Number 144, however, is a complete joke: $2.99 million for a house that's chopped up into 8 co-op apartments (which, we gather, are also on the market at the same time); add to this the fact that the property needs a significant amount of work. What are they thinking?
126 (?) St. Marks Avenue [Brooklyn Properties]
144 St. Marks Avenue [Citi-Habitats] GMAP P*Shark

Comments

But, according to the listing, 144 St. Marks is "Close to mall." That makes all the difference, doesn't it? :-)

Sometimes RE ads have GREAT unintentional humor.

On a more serious note, can we infer that perhaps the present owner has had trouble marketing the 8 condos individually?

Posted by: Bob Marvin at May 15, 2006 12:25 PM

Careful about Ave and Place here. This is Ave. St. Marks Place is more well known and kind of trips off the tongue, but is in the East Village.

Thanks,

Posted by: ameraleed at May 15, 2006 12:26 PM

Actually, Ameraleed, there is a St. Mark's Place, between 4th and 5th Avenues in Park Slope (continatuion of St. Mark's Ave.).

Posted by: Anon at May 15, 2006 12:45 PM

These two houses are on St Marks Ave between Carlton and Flatbush. St Marks Place is the same street but is so named for the stretch that runs between 5th Ave and 3rd Ave (where it becomes Wycoff and continues through to Court St in Cobble Hill).

But the real puzzler here is why anyone would buy a coop at 144 which is a totally unrenovated building? And I know it's in rough shape coz I live about 10 doors away. I haven't seen the prospectus, but there's no mention on the Citi-Habitats site of a reserve fund to upgrade the plumbing, electrical etc. How then would the coop members deal with those inevitable expenses? Would be a lousy experience for a first time home-owner (these are mostly tiny, starter apts) to discover they had to negotiate with the other cash-strapped new owners to undertake major renovations just to make the building functional. And the price of the house in its entirety is -- as brownstoner says -- completely mad. Even having the coop conversion in place couldn't make it worth $2.99m. You'd need to spend at least $500k to make it really marketable.

Posted by: Anon at May 15, 2006 1:01 PM

anyone here think paying 2+mm is too much for prospect heights? even the 126 st marks, at $2.3mm seems pricey to me whereas the $2.99mm beast is a joke not even worth talking about.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2006 1:21 PM

More than $2 million for either of those seems insane to me.

Posted by: anon at May 15, 2006 1:25 PM

On the topic of over priced.

Perhaps in response to the debate several weeks ago. The Corcoran listing at 899 Union Street has been reduced $500,000!! From $2.75m to $2.25m.

Interesting.

Posted by: bkborn at May 15, 2006 1:47 PM

I know I gonna get flamed, but there are just not enough people whose first choice of a neighborhood is PH, Clinton Hill or Fort Green to justify $2 mln plus prices for all but the most unique and large properties when you can live in Carroll Gardens or Cobble Hill for the same price. I mean would anyone really say "I'd rtaher live in CH, PH or FG than Cob Hill or CG" POssibly, possibly, FG, but CH or PH, no freaking way. I'm curious, how many of you who bought in those nabes would have rather bought in Carroll Gardens or Cobble Hill, but were priced out at the time of purchase?

Posted by: anon at May 15, 2006 1:59 PM

i like FG a lot because of park and proximity to subways but for me FG does NOT extend thru vanderbilt. But i agree on PH or CH, especially CH, nice houses but not convenient at all...

As for corcoran's mark down - has anyone else noticed that corcoran seems to be getting less new listings than others lately?

Posted by: anon at May 15, 2006 2:02 PM

Prospect Heights is still kinda under-appreciated as a neighborhood. It's fantastically convenient transportation-wise: the Q at 7th Ave, the 2/3 at Bergen (or Grand Army Plaza), and I can walk to Atlantic Ave if necessary for even more options. The park is 10 minutes away, also the museum, the botanical gdns and the library. In the other direction, there's BAM and Target. Also, all the shopping and restaurants of the Slope + a 24-hr Key Food and a very large 24-hr Korean grocery on Flatbush. Few of the blocks are as pretty as FG/CH and it's not as posh as Cobble Hill, but we do enjoy enormous backyards (most lots are 130 ft deep). Prime houses have been selling for over $2m for at least 12mos. When we bought here in '99, we had just been priced out of FG. But now we're not sorry -- the conveniences are just too significant. Cobble Hill was always beyond our budget and we never looked seriously at Carroll Gdns: too much reliance on the slow F train and no park.

Posted by: Anon at May 15, 2006 2:14 PM

From what I saw on CitiHabitats website it looks like the brokers are trying to sell this both ways: unit by unit or the whole magilla.
Seems a bit strange, no? And the units are pretty scary. Maintenance is listed at 168/month. hmmm...

Posted by: bkr at May 15, 2006 2:17 PM

i chose clinton hill over cobble hill and definitely carroll gardens. as an african american brownstone owner whose kids go to school in brooklyn heights, i personally wanted a little diversity. those two neighborhoods don't have it.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2006 2:22 PM

I've never been a big fan of Carroll Gardens or Cobble Hill. Or even Bklyn Hgts for that matter. Although I recognize that these are fabulous areas, it's just not my cup o' tea. Too polished for me. So, yes I would prefer to live in those parts of FG, CH or PH, close to good transportation.

Posted by: Yente at May 15, 2006 2:25 PM

You know a part of CH thats close to transportation? i hope you arent talking about the G train...
(semi joking)

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2006 2:34 PM

I looked at all 8 of these units yesterday, and I don't quite understand how people who have not seen them are able to comment. They are neither "tiny" nor "pretty scary." Yes, they need some work, but the original details in these units are quite nice. All but one or two units are 1 bedrooms, and at under 300K make a pretty excellent bargain for a first time home buyer who is willing and able to put in a little time and money to restoring them to their original grandeur.

Posted by: anonymous at May 15, 2006 2:51 PM

I stand rightly scolded for judging based on a few bad photos; but as a brownstone coop treasurer for 12 years (in PH), my scepticism remains on the financial scariness of purchasing an invidual unit or the whole building

Posted by: bkr at May 15, 2006 2:57 PM

Hello anon at 2.34 - ever ride the "C"?!! It's a block and a half from where I live in "prime" CH, and is 5 stops to Manhattan! That beats all of Cobble Hill and Carroll Gardens in terms of transportation, PLUS people in my nabe, and houses to boot, don't all look alike!!

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2006 3:36 PM

I'd _MUCH_ rather live in some parts of FG (say between DeKalb and Greene) than in many parts of CG (say anything west of Clinton Street). And certainly over anything further on the F train.

But that may be because I am subway-motivated.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2006 4:57 PM

2:34, I was talking about the C train. (Thanks, 3:36.) However, I've got it even better in Bed Stuy as I'm right around the corner from the A. I was on the F line in the Slope for years. Ugh.

Posted by: Yente at May 15, 2006 5:04 PM

yeah - ive taken the "C", in general though i dont like to depend only on 1 train choice. hence why i prefer FG (walk to Q/R and 2/3 isnt too bad).

to be clear - i do like diversity of FG and CH to CG/Bor. Hill too. I just dont love the walk to the clinton/wash station nor do i like the station.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2006 5:36 PM

2 million dollars?!?

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2006 5:37 PM

Don't have to rank on other neighborhood to build up esteem of your own.
and btw Cobble Hill and Carroll Gardens are 3 or 4 stops to Manhattan - so don't know how your 5 stops beats it (if that is your major criteria).
And after living in Carroll garden/CobbleHill for past 30 years I have to laugh when called too polished or that all neighbors look alike or all houses look alike.
BTW - always thought well of FG and Clinton Hill even 30 years ago.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2006 5:50 PM

Dear Anon 2:51pm,

I live in a brownstone on the next block of St Marks which appears to have built at the same time, possibly by the same builder (based on both the exterior appearance of 144 and looking at the interior photos). So I know it's a potentially a great building. But how would you resolve the issue of moving into a newly converted but unrenovated coop? Who would pay for the overhaul of the basics mechanics (roof, facade, plumbing, electrical, mains water supply, structural repairs/upgrades etc?). It just concerns me that a newbie coop owner could be walking into a whole mess of unanticipated assessment costs -- without the advantages of a deep-pocketed sponsor or a large number of apt owners to share the costs.

Posted by: Anon at May 15, 2006 6:07 PM

yes sir $2 AMERICAN DOLLARS! no less!
muhahahahah

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2006 6:09 PM

someone should send a letter to the owners of both building especially the coop or condo one.

are you nuts!!!! 2.9 mil for a beatup house . which needs tons of work! stop smoking crack ya'll.

Posted by: armchair warrior at May 15, 2006 6:27 PM

PH valuations rise/fall in relation to PS the prime brownstone blocks in PH -- St. Marks, Prospect, Park, Sterling are more convenient to transportation, the Park museum, library and even commercial district of PS than most of PS. Historically, the ratio is .66 - .75, so with 20' 4 story bldgs on 7-8 and 8-PPW blocks selling (yes selling, not only asking) for 2.8 - 3.6, 1.85 - 2.7 is the correct range. With Vanderbilt and Washington Aves exploding, the ratio is only going to favor PH

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2006 7:09 PM

the houses at 144 definitely got a huge price chop, btw. still seem overpriced to me!

Posted by: riz at May 15, 2006 7:14 PM

C train is the Clinton Hill line to Manhattan. Unless you are living closer to the North side of the nabe near Myrtle, it's not a long walk. I'm close to the Clinton Washington C stop, work near Wall Street, and it takes me literally 20 minutes door to door. If you have to walk to Atlantic Avenue Station for one of the many trains there from the center of Ft. Greene, it is a comparable walk as what most in CH do for the C train. I've lived in FG and CH and never had transportation complaints. I also lived for years in Carroll Gardens. The F train was very slow, hated it.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 16, 2006 12:32 AM

Sorry, 5:50, a question was posted at 1:59 and we're just responding to that. Don't go all PLG on us! ; )

Posted by: Anonymous at May 16, 2006 6:28 AM

Saw the apartments at 144 several months ago. Thought they were twice the price of what they ought to be. Owner cooped the building several years ago but didn't put a dime into it. The building looks like it needs some serious updating and the apartments were also unrenovated. (think 1950's kitchens) For $2.9mil you can get a nice townhouse in Park Slope.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 16, 2006 8:16 AM

"Don't go all PLG on us"

LOL Anon. 6:28 AM

BUT, as you can see, its not only us PLG people who can be a bit thin-skinned about their nabes :-)

Posted by: Bob Marvin at May 16, 2006 10:16 AM

Nearly 20 years ago I lived in 2 different apts at 144 St. Marks Ave. At that time, I was offered a prosptectus to buy my apartment (the largest in the building) for 78K. NONE of the tenants who lived in the building at that time seriously considered buying their units. The landlord (whom I assume continues to own the building) did NOTHING to improve the property during the entire six years I lived there and the building was perpetually overrun with rodents. The landlord claimed he couldn't/wouldn't make improvements to the property because the building was rent stabilized and he was not getting ANY return on his investment due to the low rents we were paying. For the life of me, I can not believe that anyone would even THINK about paying 300K for a co-op in this building. The units are TINY and the property is dismal!

Posted by: Betsy Baldwin at September 5, 2008 10:56 PM

Betsy – Thinking about Prospect Heights, and this building (144 St. Marks) 20 years ago and today is like comparing apples to oranges. I live on the same block as this building and in 2006 (when all these commenters wrote) the units did sell quickly for the asking prices and a young, energetic new group of owners seem to have put a lot of sweat into fixing up the place and creating a functioning co-op board. I’ve been inside a few times and seen a couple of the apartments and they look beautiful. As a neighbor I am thrilled that they have resurrected this old charming brownstone.

Posted by: rinaph at February 8, 2010 8:43 AM

« A Slice of Old Poplar Street Monday Photo of the Day »

May 15, 2006

Houses of the Day: St. Marks Beauty Contest

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