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May 2, 2006

Greenpoint Fire Rages On

fire
fire
The 7-alarm fire that began early this morning on the Greenpoint waterfront is still raging. One theory floating around right now is that the fire was started on purpose to clear the way for new condos from the ground up. It's sad indeed. This complex of warehouses was truly a landmark that defined Greenpoint--in a wonderful way. Thanks to justiNYC for the photos. If you've taken any photos of the fire today, please send 'em on over.
Massive Fire Still Burning [NY1]

Comments

Here are a bunch of pics I took this morning before work. Around 240ish.

http://gallery.digitalfront.net/gpfire

Posted by: Vic at May 2, 2006 1:51 PM

Giving that theory any credibility while the fire still burns is an outrage.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 2, 2006 2:19 PM

I'm surprised that it took so long for a post regarding the fire to hit Brownstoner. This a a MAJOR real estate event in NY, but I guess since it's not in a brownstone neighborhood, no one really cares. Greenpoint is only mentioned in terms of maxing out FAR. Unfortunate.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 2, 2006 2:21 PM

So now I guess Brownstoner is supposed to be the absolute resource when it comes to News? Some of you people.... Good Grief, Give me a break. The blog IS called Brownstoner for goodness sake!

Posted by: Anonymous at May 2, 2006 2:28 PM

Amen 2:28pm!

Posted by: anon at May 2, 2006 2:38 PM

I'm with you anon at 2:28. honestly, I'm impressed that Bstoner reported on it in such a timely fashion, as I am impressed in general with how on top of things he is. It's why it remains a favorite blog for me. 2:21, that was a totally inane comment.

Posted by: kcf at May 2, 2006 2:38 PM

I agree with the people above, Brownstoner is not 1010WINS, for Pete's sake.

And while Greenpoint doesn't get the attention of Clinton Hill and Park Slope, Brownstoner has done articles about houses there. I'm sure he'll do more in the future. From what I've seen, Mr. B. is learning as much about the different nabes in Brooklyn as the rest of us, give him/us a chance.

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at May 2, 2006 2:47 PM

You can see the water streams in the picture. A lot of times, fires smolder aftewards. It's hard to tell how close to out it is.

Posted by: JoshK at May 2, 2006 3:01 PM

Is this blog actually spreading a rumor of arson?

Posted by: Anonymous at May 2, 2006 3:06 PM

No, we heard the arson theory on NY1 three hours ago.

Posted by: Brownstoner at May 2, 2006 3:10 PM

"it's sad indeed" seems to indicate you think the rumor's true...

Posted by: Anonymous at May 2, 2006 3:12 PM

The area was slated for demolition and waterfront condo development, I believe. Coincidence?

Posted by: Anonymous at May 2, 2006 3:17 PM

I don't think it makes the developer's job any easier to have the place burn down. It was slated for demolition, which I would imagine is a lot cheaper than cleaning up what's going to be left after this fire.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 2, 2006 3:21 PM

were's the weather report on this site?

j/k
saw this on the way in this morning from l.i.c. and it was immense. the fact that it is still going is amazing

Posted by: manhattan offender at May 2, 2006 3:27 PM

Was surprised to see ashes in the air this morning in Fort Greene Park.Brings back memories- none of them good. Was very glad to hear that no one was injured although it is a shame to lose the buildings.

Posted by: houseowax at May 2, 2006 3:33 PM

I QUOTE:
"Fire Commissioner Nicholas Scoppetta called it the largest fire in the city in more than a decade, excluding the World Trade Center attack, and said the cause was suspicious."

My photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jukeboxgraduate/

Posted by: jg at May 2, 2006 3:41 PM

If it is arson for the purpose of building a condo, the city should put a 50 year freeze on developing that land.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 2, 2006 3:42 PM

It does save a lot of money on demolition and none of those pesky "save our warehouses" demonstrations either...

Posted by: clinton hillbilly at May 2, 2006 3:42 PM

Come on anon 3:42! Rats and arsons need a place to live too.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 2, 2006 3:49 PM

I think that this IS an appropriate posing. There are brownstones/historic district in Greenpoint - just not as many as in the other nabes.

I agree that this is a major RE event and considering the pace of super-development in a neighborhood that's gotten so dumped on through the years, it's definitely a concern when you know that high rises are on the way...or power plants or waste transfer stations - you know, all those nice not in my backyard items that most of the upscale Brooklyn and Manhattan 'hoods would never ever have to worry about. I feel for the Greenpointers.

As far as I can tell, they have to deal with:
*waterfront development towers and a waterfront development plan that might demolition houses
*towers in the midst of all the 3-4 story bldgs (badillo's RE proposal, N. 8th street mega tower, etc.)
*largest oil spill in history underneath Greenpoint
*fire department house closing on Northside near...
*Radiac radioactive storage facility in the Northside
*power station proposals
*Newtown creek
*Newtown waste treatment plant
*Greenpoint library that never is able to get the promised funds for desperately needed renovation
*A carefully re-districted zone that has the area lumped in with parts of Manhatttan and the Heights - isn't that a good one?

I'm sure there's more - but that's what an outsider has been tracking...

Posted by: Anonymous at May 2, 2006 3:58 PM

Does anyone in CH smell smoke at the moment? IS this another fire or is the wind blowing the smell of the Greenpoint fire towards here?

Posted by: Anon at May 2, 2006 4:02 PM

Does anyone in CH smell smoke at the moment? IS this another fire or is the wind blowing the smell of the Greenpoint fire towards here?

Posted by: Anon at May 2, 2006 4:02 PM

I could smell the smoke as far away as Park Slope and big black chunks of soot landed in my backyard. I think the wind was pretty high this morning, which didn't help matters.

Posted by: Miguel at May 2, 2006 4:15 PM

I've been smelling smoke for a couple of hours in Crown Hgts.

Of course this is appropriate news for this blog. Arson is a serious problem and although the blog is called brownstoner, I have never gotten the impression it was supposed to be Brooklyn Old House Web. Old commercial areas have their own very valuable history to contribute to Brownstone Brooklyn, so people should care about them. And arson is a neighborhood concern everywhere.

By the way, anon 3:58- that was an excellent post and also applies to Williamsburg. Eng 212 was not just a firehouse, but a chemical foam unit for chemical and hazmat fires.

Posted by: Bx2Bklyn at May 2, 2006 4:18 PM

this "suspiscious" fire is as old as brooklyn...

Posted by: Anonymous at May 2, 2006 4:31 PM

i just went down to get an update.
find the pics here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigstimuli/sets/72057594123482947/

Posted by: justiNYC at May 2, 2006 4:38 PM

I'm in CH and I've been smelling it for a couple of hours as well.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 2, 2006 4:49 PM

Important information. I am copying this from curbed, but too important NOT to read:

The buildings were up for preservation - several were exepected to pass.

The property is owned by Joshua Guttman, a landlord who has a history in NYC of his buildings burning down when its rezoning time

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0411,schuerman,51863,5.html

When the buildings burned 2 things happend:
- The chance for preservation dropped, making the architects renderings more likely
- Instead of paying for cleanup and abatement of toxic materials, all that shit burned into the air. Yay world-trade-center style cancers.

We need to fight for the preservation of what is left and not be trampled by this developer abuse.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 2, 2006 5:04 PM

5:00pm and now starting to smell smoke in my office in the Wall St area.

Is this thing still going? Did the wind shift or something?

Posted by: Miguel at May 2, 2006 5:09 PM

WHAT A SCANDAL! They ought to require the developer to rebuild historic replicas of the buildings.

Posted by: Ed at May 2, 2006 5:16 PM

Josh Guttman is the same landlord who harassed and made life miserable for the artists in DUMBO and evicted 60 of them at 11 PM on December l7, 2000 which made the No. 1 new story at the time. He has flaunted the laws every step of the way in this development craze and is a criminal. There is no doubt in my mind this was not set by "squatters" but by Gutman himself or his cohorts. He hired goons to harass the artists in Dumbo, and has no compunctions about breaking the law. NYC should get the FBI and the Attorney General in on this one, it has Guttman's handprint all over it. Anyone who has been aware of the eviction of artists since 2000 has been fully acquainted with Guttman and he is well known in the courts and among landlord/tenant lawyers. I repeat THIS IS NO ACCIDENT.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 2, 2006 5:19 PM

Thank you Anon 5:19. I second your thoughts...I was just gunna say the same. Guttman should be jailed. Incidentally, I smelled smoke while walking in the Bklyn Botanical Gardens this morning and now I know why.

Posted by: Gidget at May 2, 2006 5:26 PM

The smoke has made it's way to my Wall and South Street office building. We got a heads up this morining that there would be smell of smoke from the fire, and not be alarmed.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 2, 2006 5:36 PM

Another useful link on the current landmarking activity for this site at the Municipal Art Society.

http://www.mas.org/Advocacy/Preservation.cfm?ContID=1193&Full=Yes#Story_1193

Posted by: Anonymous at May 2, 2006 6:10 PM

I believe that the troll who posted as me recently, is now co-opting Brown Bomber's name. This is really getting absurd. Brownstoner, I think you really need to ban this person for good. I also think that registration might be necessary. It's a PITA, mostly for you, but I am really tired of hearing from this jerk, having this jerk post as me, and watching him trying to ruin someone else.

This particular thread is important, the destruction of these buildings is a crime and serious business.

Posted by: TheRealCrown HeightsProud at May 2, 2006 6:14 PM

When I picked up miss Brownstoner at school at 11:30AM, what we initially thought was fog was actually smoke rolling down the CH avenues. it was surreal and scary.

Posted by: Mrs.brownstoner at May 2, 2006 6:23 PM

I guess the developer didn't want to see a repeat of the battle that raged over the preservation of the Austin Nichols Building (184 Kent Ave). Is it a coincidence that the developer filed for a demolition permit with the DOB (check it out on their site) for the two adjacent lots just yesterday?If this is arson (the motive is their) heads should roll but this is NYC........

Posted by: Jess I. Cansee at May 2, 2006 6:49 PM

this is so obviously arson. it happens all the time. these owners want the insurance money and the money that they will get from selling the land for development. it has happened recently in prospect heights and four people were killed. no one cares. interesting how all of the owners of these buildings that have burned happen to be the hasidim....

Posted by: Anonymous at May 2, 2006 7:08 PM

There has been cases of arson in Crown Heights too (where 4 people were killed) on Pacific- so anon at 7:08- don't go there. We have enough flame/blame/name stuff on this blog. I'm tired of the name-calling, the race-baiting, the false accusations that a few people seem to enjoy. It ruins this great blog that Brownstoner has set up, it sets any discussion on the wrong track and it upsets everyone.

Posted by: Bx2Bklyn at May 2, 2006 7:29 PM

One aspect of the fire that hasn't been highlighted is what the quoted poster above mentions re: 9/11-type cancers. I live at least a mile away and was breathing sickening fumes all day. How many thousands of tons of toxins were spewed out by that fire? I'm not sure of the location, but either parts of that site or two next door were Haz-Mat sites.

Posted by: Burgette at May 2, 2006 7:47 PM

You can't even get that one right, stupid troll. I've been posting as TheRealCrownHeightsProud since I discovered you, earlier today, not "TheTrue...."

I can't believe how stupid this is, and that I have to keep defending myself. This is petty and childish, and I'm not going to play anymore.

Posted by: TheRealCrownHeightsProud at May 2, 2006 8:11 PM

Brownstoner, the BrownBomber at May 2, 2006 05:59 PM post was not me. The troll is obviously back and posting under the identities of others. I agree with CHP that this lunatic should be banned from the site.

Posted by: BrownBomber at May 2, 2006 8:37 PM

Brownstoner, please do ban the troll. CHP's and BrownBomber's posts are valuable, and this identity theft is really annoying and very disturbing.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 2, 2006 9:04 PM

Can anyone recommend a real estate blog that features less whining? If the troll bothers you so much, then post anonymously. As it is, the troll-inspired complaints are far more of a disruption than the troll itself. And where do you people get off asking Brownstoner to jump everytime you snap your virtual fingers? Did it ever occur to you that he might have better things to do? You people are pathetic.

Posted by: Anomalous at May 2, 2006 9:16 PM

why is it race baiting to mention who the people who own the buildings? if it is fact then why can it not be said? george bush is a texan, can we not say that? this is historic accuracy look at who owns the buildings. i think that everyone is too sensitive. the truth is race plays a major role in most things in america. what's the big deal in discussing? the ability to discuss it makes america great, remember the constitution?

Posted by: Anonymous at May 2, 2006 9:38 PM

IF this was arson, it has nothing to do with Landmarks designation. These buildings were not going to be designated - LPC was not interested, and the local community was not agressively pursuing designation. If someone torched the buildings on the basis of potential landmarks designation, they wasted a can of gasoline (not an insignificant expenditure these days).

Posted by: Yorkton at May 2, 2006 10:26 PM

Yorkton

You sure are wrong about the local community and what they were pursuing!!!

Posted by: Anonymous at May 2, 2006 11:04 PM

Guttman isn't hasidim anyway- he's orthodox (and despite the fact that it doesn't matter anyway) you guys are tremendously bored and backwards. Either get a new hobby OR YOUR OWN DAMN BLOG.
its a shame about those buildings...i was just over there the other day.

Posted by: Anomoly at May 2, 2006 11:12 PM

"interesting how all of the owners of these buildings that have burned happen to be the hasidim...."

The fact that you made the distinction is the problem. And a blanket statement at that. You don't know of the arson was set by them or by some homeless person or anything for that matter. Yet you point to one group. That Bush is a Texan is a fact, and has no bias in that statemnt. Your sentence implies something about a particular group of people. That's the difference between stating a fact and race-baiting.

Posted by: Bx2Bklyn at May 2, 2006 11:46 PM

And of course the 8:53 post by "me" is not by me at all. Somewhere a very immature, rather moronic troll is acting like a 5 year old brat. I'm not playing anymore wither- I'm sure peple have a pretty good sense of when it's the troll and when it's for real.

Posted by: Bx2Bklyn at May 2, 2006 11:49 PM

The first thing I thought when I was stuck in traffic this morning watching that smoke rise is that some landlord is getting over on the system with a fire. Seems like the readers of Brownstoner agree.

Posted by: anomynus at May 3, 2006 1:01 AM

Obviously that is not my post about the Hasidim above. But the troll posting as me at 7:36 has provided a perfect example of race-baiting.

Posted by: Bx2Bklyn at May 3, 2006 8:46 AM

Ofcourse it was arson, Mr. Guttman has a history of arson-related fires, he ownes half of DUMBO and Williamsburg, only cares about his money machine and couldn't care less about the community. Guttman and his crew should be put in prison.

Posted by: dumbo at May 3, 2006 10:01 AM

how does one get to own so much property- i know it was bought long ago but even cheap how does one manage it- or i guess not manage it... does anyone know how much property he owns currently- or how can you find out.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2006 10:23 AM

Well everyone agrees it was arson but last I heard you are innocent until proven guilty.

Posted by: Bx2Bklyn at May 3, 2006 10:31 AM

"The local community was not agressively pursuing designation."

Really now, anyone familiar with Greenpoint's plights (BTW: excellent overview in 3:58 above) knows that the local community is really the residents who have no voice (majority) and the few who do (local comm bd - oh boy...; and those associated with the local, state and fed machines.)

How does the Mobil oil spill stay spilt? How did the plans/funding to restore the library get pushed to Williamsburg? How did the sewage plant keep 'expanding'? Who lobbied to get the redistricting done?

This stuff has been going on forever. If this Guttman has a history of 'coincidental properties burning' and teflon characteristics, then an investigative reporter or Atty Gen'l focus needs to happen. But who has the courage to step up? Guttman and others in the same situation only increase suspicion by making no comments and staying aloof.

Bottom line: the sheer money lust of the waterfronts to be built up is too huge to ignore.

I do thank everyone for the community that exists on this blog to allow for open dialogue.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2006 11:16 AM

well when he goes to jail, people won't care if he is orthodox, hasidim whatever!

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2006 1:55 PM

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May 2, 2006

Greenpoint Fire Rages On

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