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May 12, 2006

Gehry's Design: The Park Slope Perspective

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Backing away from his suggestion earlier this Spring that the Atlantic Yards project would be scaled back significantly, architect Frank Gehry presented a plan that was "pared back" a mere 5%yesterday, much to the chagrin of critics, with increased lip service to the landscape design of public spaces. There's lots of coverage in all the papers today of the new plans, but the picture that grabbed our attention most was on a local blog called Gowanus Loung, showing what the current plan would look like to someone standing on Flatbush and St. Marks. Although it was never going to get built, at least there was something inspiring about the shimmering facades of the original design, concerns of context aside; this latest verion just looks like a bowl full of mush.
And...Here's the View [Gowanus Lounge]
Gehry: Towers Won't Corrupt Brooklyn Feel [NY Times]
Revamped Arena Plan Unveiled [NY Post]
A Trim for Yards Work [NY Daily News]




Posted by Brownstoner at 8:53 AM | Comments (25)
Categories: Development

Comments

The worst thing about the design is Gehry's failed attempt to harmoniously blend in various building materials and concepts: glass, metal and brick. The brick "project" looking buildings are horrible and were probably included in an effort to placate the neighboring brownstone communities. But the brick buildings only makes the development project look confused and disjointed. Give me an ALL glass and metal, shining, glimmering city on this site any day: the contrast would work. But this design is so tacky! It doesn't scream class, sophistication, high-end and luxury.

More importantly, why is Gehry hiding the arena? If you're looking to make a modern artistic statement then the arena should serve as the focal point and should not be hidden behind a plethora of ugly warped brick buildings. This design is FUGLY to the core!

Again, the arena should be the centerpiece. If you are going to plop an arena in the middle of downtown Brooklyn, showcase it, make it beautiful, make it grand, give us a magnificent statement, make it modern and hip, but don't..please don't hid it behind all of those ugly building. I actually preferred the very first design of the arena. FCR should start all over again. This time make it bold and stunning. Make it a future landmark!! The surrounding buildings should compliment the arena but not overshadow!

Bruce Ratner you better get this right! If you don't I hope an angry mob storms FCR headquarters, drags you out by your feet and then stones you to death at the foot of Atlantic Terminal. You think that you're a big time developer.? Well start acting like one! I hate to say this but be more TRUMP LIKE! For all of the bad things that you can say about Donald Trump at least he strives for excellence and goes over the top! Look at his developments: Mar-A-Lago, Trump International, Trump Towers, Trump Park Avenue, etc. Do they come even close to some of the crap that your name is associated with? NO! He's built beautiful towers in prime locations throughout this country. And look at his golf course developments in California, Florida, New York and New Jersey. Could you do that? I've played at Trump's courses in Bedminster, NJ and Briar Cliff, NY and those courses are absolutely beautiful. Simply amazing. When DT dies he will be long remembered by golfing enthusiast for these gems. They actually might be his lasting legacy. Why did these developments work out so well for Trump? Well because Donald Trump wants to be the best. What about you? Do you seriously want to be remembered for Atlantic Terminal? I seriously hope not. What will be your legacy?!?

On a last note, how hard would it be to hold a international design contest and get the community's input on what would be best for Brooklyn? Keep your square footage, commercial and residential space but just please give us something stunning, beautiful and truly artistic! MAKE BROOKLYN PROUD!!!

Posted by: BrownBomber at May 12, 2006 9:06 AM

matter of personal opinion of course --- i like it. having said that, i left clinton hill last summer to avoid the lovely traffic situation that will rest its lovely head upon beautiful fg and ch. imagine that steady stream of traffic cutting across clinton and washington aves, heading for the bqe... arrghh.

Posted by: archer at May 12, 2006 9:13 AM

Ever wonder why it takes decades for anything of consequence to get built in this city......everyone is a critic...and thinks they should have a hand in it.
And c'mon - you left CH last year because of some notion of traffic problems you foresee in your crystal ball that won't happen for another decade?

Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2006 9:57 AM

Traffic will start happening the minute you break ground. Construction will tie up the area far more than the completed development so it is not ten years away, it's months (if that) away.And Brown bomber- I hate to say you're right when you compare Trump and Ratner, but you are. And I don't like Trumps buildings generally- too over the top- but as you said- he insists on the best. AY is not in his league at all.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2006 10:05 AM

Are you kidding?? How can anyone take your comments seriously when you hold up Donald Trump as developer who strives for excellence??? - Have you seen Trump Int or Trump World Tower - they are just plain boxes (which usually all the critics here decry as the end of the world). And the inside of his buildings make the chessiest catering hall look classy.
Look I am not sure about this buildings design (critiquing the other buildings is just silly since you cant tell anything from these renderings) but if your going to hold up Trump as a model developer your credibility is pretty well shot.

Posted by: David at May 12, 2006 10:20 AM

these pictures strike me as beyond belief ugly. i was for Atlantic Yards at first (like the idea of a stadium in the city), and used to like FCR for being willing to invest in Brooklyn back when no one else would. but it just keeps getting worse and worse...

enough to make me sign up as a volunteer on the Develop Don't Destroy website. all the cool kids are doing it now, after all.

Posted by: Powderhouse (nee Sloper) at May 12, 2006 10:26 AM

David- that was comparatively speaking, especially since Trump's taste is all in his wallet, not in his eye. But to his credit he would never go for a monstrosity like the Gehry site is. Which makes the whole thing even sadder- How bad is the NYC architectural environment when you have to compare Gehry and Trump to make your point.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2006 10:40 AM

Ha! Well said, 10:40.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2006 11:23 AM

I admit it's sort of fun to chime in with our aesthetic opinions, but they are all completely beside the point. Politicians, financiers and developers really don't care about what even a chorus of critics think about the design. They rightly believe that it is a question for history. There will never be consensus.

I don't like the Nets' uniforms, but that's not going to stop Ratner from buying and moving the team. Our opinion about Gehry's design is similarly irrelevant. Sorry.

Posted by: bkborn at May 12, 2006 11:28 AM

That's Flatbush and Prospect Pl.


I hope there is an earthquake the day all this is completed.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2006 11:47 AM

I think Miss Brooklyn is pretty hideous, but this view isn't all that bad. The main building in view is what would go up at the Dean St corner and its blocking breaks up its scale and gives it a sort of vertical block of brownstones quality. Could be a lot worse.

Posted by: anonymous at May 12, 2006 12:54 PM

The most important input we should make, is not on exterior appearance or even height. The most important is preventing superblocks and stopping projects style gardens around the buildings. If Marty, Gehry, Ratner and co really want to creat a bridge, the area needs to be a destination in and of itself. That means plenty of street level stores and plenty of streets. Otherwise we will just end up with an empty series of gardens a la Peter Stvestant town.

Posted by: cocco at May 12, 2006 12:59 PM

i moved to brooklyn a year ago, didn't know much about the AY plans and didn't have a strong opinion about it… but thought the desolate area between fort greene and prospect heights could use some development and liked the idea of a basket ball arena. probably like most people who don't know much about the project, i sort of thought that the people apposed to it were just opposed to change in general.

NOW, after living in brooklyn for this past year, and having learned more about ratner, having used the atlantic terminal regularly and become familiar with it's horrible design-- i am so opposed to this project and my disgust for it keeps mounting. i hope the community can fight this like those who fought against robert moses from plowing over the west village. we need something innovative and beautiful and world-class here. i know i’m just saying what so many others have already said- but i’m late to catch on! you guys are right, this is horrendous and needs to be stopped.

Posted by: lc at May 12, 2006 1:15 PM

Cocco--it's comparing apples and oranges, since "Peter Stuyvesant Town" (actually 2 adjacent developments, Stuy Town and Peter Cooper Village) are residential enclaves, but it's worth pointing out that their "empty gardens" are full to the brim with happy residents--even happier now that the lawn around the fountain may be sat upon (it was off-limits when I lived there in the 70s). For all the bourgeois-bashing that ST/PCV endure at the hands of the NY Times' archi-snobs, those developments have aged magnificently in terms of intuitive everyday use. (They're now going the $$$-hungry 'luxury' route, btw.)
As for this Gehry nightmare, that's precisely what it's like--a horrible dream in which awful things rise menacingly on a familiar, cozy horizon. I pray we are not doomed to this monstrosity.

Posted by: Brenda from Flatbush at May 12, 2006 2:00 PM

I think Gehry is making it intentionally off-putting so that the general public will be intimidated (Boy- he does not know Brooklynites, does he?) and not use the public spaces he used as a carrot. Closing off a huge swath of Pacific St. is disgusting- Since my taxes pay for public roads I don't see how the city can simply hand it over to AY and it's residents. Isn't there something illegal about that?

Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2006 2:09 PM

Note: this rendering from Ratner is a lie, it says "view from St. Marks and Flatbush" but this is Prospect and Flatbush

Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2006 3:54 PM

It's a lie, come on, they are off by one block if you're correct. I'm not a fan of the AY project but let's avoid infantile hyperbole.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2006 5:28 PM

funny, brenda, i think you're right. if this thing gets built and the economy tanks, as it certainly will, i think the project will have more of a future as low-income housing than as lux housing.

Posted by: an at May 12, 2006 8:03 PM

I think this project is great! what was everybody going to say if the entire lot was going to be built with housing projects instead, com'n this is good don't complain...

Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2006 8:36 PM

good is a relative term. It could have been great but certainly isn't now. All those people who said they wanted the arena and AY because anything was better than nothing- judging from the comments even from you guys it's a case of be careful what you wish for. You might get it.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 13, 2006 1:15 AM

I've lived in Brooklyn for more than a decade now, and I think this is just what we need. As gentrification spreads, it's only fitting that a "downtown" type core develop, and the location is perfect. Pretty soon, when many of you are able to walk to work, you won't be complaining so much. My only gripe is that the project shouldn't include housing - just office buildings. There is plenty of residential development going on. The only other concern I have is that we have to make sure brownstone districts are preserved from development. Let 4th Avenue exceed the building height restrictions. Otherwise, let's keep things low scale and enjoy our new downtown.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 13, 2006 9:39 AM

interesting idea, anon at 9:39. But I believe Ratner thinks he will see a return on his money a lot sooner with luxury housing and possibly residential space would help bolster the arena since the events take place mostly at night. If the downtown core doesn't have much nightlife, people will avoid the area. Now I don't think that will stop Nets fans, but businesses like restaurants that make money during events need more than game nights to survive. That said, there was political and community pressure on him, and I sincerely doubt he could have gotten the abatements and the lowball price for the AY rights strictly for commercial purposes. But the real truth is Ratner doesn't care about people and neighborhoods. He cares about money, ego and his very own team.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 13, 2006 6:33 PM

Just to go way back to the beginning on the Trump vs. Ratner comparison -- Trump is from NYC (Queens), Ratner is from Cleveland. Bruce Ratner couldn't care less about making Brooklyn proud. Trump may be all about flash and sleaze and lack of taste, but I have to agree, he does strive for excellence in everything he does (even if it's excellently tacky). Bruce Ratner strives for the cheapest construction costs possible with no regard for aesthetics or permanence of his structures (that goodness, so they'll fall down of themselves in a generation or two). Frank Gehry is a ploy in all this; that thing shown the other day will never be built.

While I will never forgive Donld Trump for illegally (and deliberately) destroying the freizes of the old Bonwit Teller building to build the Trump Tower, I must admit it's aged rather well, despite the incredibly tacky touches like those giant gold T's all over. Ratner's projects (Metro Tech, the building on Court St with the movie theatre and the B&N, the malls at Atlantic Terminal) have looked like cheap crap from the get-go.

No, I wouldn't be thrilled by a "Trump Atlantic Yards," but you know it would be a lot better than anything BR could produce.

Posted by: babs at May 14, 2006 10:46 AM

Babs, I agree. I'm simply appealing to the man's ego. If Ratner wants to be considered in the big league of real estate developers in NYC then he needs to step up to the plate and do something extraordinary with this prime piece of property. This is the largest development project in NYC in the past 50 years. There will be no in between with AY. It's either going to be the crown jewel of Brooklyn (to be admired for many generations) or the biggest flop in real estate development history. Ratner for better are worst will be the central figure.

Posted by: BrownBomber at May 15, 2006 10:49 AM

I'm with Babs and Brownbomber- up to now Ratner has been small-time. A project this size will put him in the major leagures, so it's time to do something world-class, imaginative and beautiful. Something that fits in Brooklyn, looks like it really belongs here, and doesn't make the taxpayers eat it.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2006 11:15 AM

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