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May 18, 2006

Civil War Silliness

We got several e-mails from readers yesterday wondering why we hadn't done a post on the Observer article that tries to bifurcate gentrified Brooklyn: cynical hipsters to the North, yuppie stroller-pushers to the South. As silly as they can be, when a publication like New York Magazine writes these kinds of articles, they usually hit some kind of nerve; this Observer piece was pretty pointless, we thought:

Of course, all of gentrified Brooklyn is somewhat similar. It’s mostly white. It’s mostly partial to some form of indie rock. Refugees from small colleges like Vassar and Wesleyan may trudge North; shiny Ivy Leaguers could prefer the South—but the bottom line is that they all attended fancy colleges. Southerners reluctantly fork over deceptively low salaries for DVF dresses and Paper, Denim, Whatever jeans; Northern chicks would rather jump off the Williamsburg Bridge than wear something they didn’t iron on themselves. But in the end, they all care a lot about what they wear.

As someone who's lived on both sides of the Flushing Avenue, all we can say is, "Whatever, dude."
Brooklyn Civil War [NY Observer]

Comments

Hmm. All my cynical hipster art-honed poseur friends (and I mean that) live in bushwick. South of the Flushing Ave divide. Somehow I get the feeling that the Observer doesn't know their ass from their gentrificalia.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 18, 2006 11:45 AM

A half-interesting idea, poorly thought out and reported. I suspect the writer lives in Manhattan. Most obviously, not all of South Brooklyn is white or plainly dressed. How could she go to a bar on Myrtle Avenue of all places and fail to notice this? And the fringes of brownstone neighborhoods--say, north of Myrtle!--are often cheaper than Williamsburg for renters. And what about Pratt? Creative, stylish, and childless people have their own reasons for wanting to live in South Brooklyn, none of which were touched on in the piece.

Posted by: babygreene at May 18, 2006 11:47 AM

Isn't John Flansburgh (of the band They Might Be Giants) who quoted in the article, a Pratt Grad?

Posted by: Anonymous at May 18, 2006 11:56 AM

actually, as long as we're expressing opinions, it was a fun article that hit a lot of the stereotypes right on the nose. i know plenty of people as described.

and i think the smart money is on the South this time. North Brooklyn has that whole toxic oil spill thing holding them back. And our brick and brownstone blocks will hold up better to cannonball onslaught.

Posted by: chuck at May 18, 2006 11:57 AM

Pure silliness. I went to art school and make my living as a full-time artist, listen to music more obscure than all that, never wear jeans, live in Ditmas (which I believe counts as the south), and lived on the Northside until it was overrun with too many out-of-towners. All those Wisconsin accents on Bedford, all those slow walkers - it just got to be too much.

This crap is meaningless, but kind of fun to grouse about.

Posted by: Leela at May 18, 2006 12:07 PM

i got a kick out of the article, despite the gross stereotypes. williamsburg is fun, but it does seem like all the hipsters are from elsewhere... everyone i know who grew up in brooklyn (and then went to fancy colleges and learned to love indie rock) lives in south brooklyn.

Posted by: powderhouse at May 18, 2006 12:12 PM

You have to love the stereotypes of NY Magazine. As a white chick who went to state schools, is somewhat over "indie" rock, lives right next door to the projects and works at an investment bank, I'd say they're not casting their net all that wide. As usual. Ho hum. Like Leela said-- kind of fun to grouse about.

Posted by: cat at May 18, 2006 12:17 PM

It seems like maybe this was more true 10 years ago, before PLG, ditmars, windsor terrace, etc. had so many gentrifiers-- and williamsburg was still a place that artists could sort of afford.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 18, 2006 12:38 PM

Hilarious actually. As far as stereotypes go, not bad. Funny, Leela, how the article is crap to you but not the stereotype of Wisconsinites on Bedford who forced you out in search of a new haven which undoubtedly now also carries stereotypes of other parts of the country for you. And I mean it, I'm not trying to poke fun, just laughing laughing laughing at how funny it is.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 18, 2006 1:00 PM

It is funny. It does go round and round. But my comment about Wisconsinites was tongue-in-cheek. However, I do feel that I and many fellow native Manhattanites have been pushed out of our home island by people from elsewhere, who don't know anything about where they're living, or what came before them. Where I connect with that article was Mr. Flansburgh's comment about not wanting to live on St. Mark's Place. It's gotten so full of li'l whippersnappers just out of college, doing what those folks do. I did it too, but a ten years ago, and someplace else, so I moved someplace a little less discovered.

Nah, no stereotypes in this haven. Still pretty haven-y. I'd like to point out that as far as Ditmas goes (can't speak for other places), a lot of us so-called "gentrifiers" live here because the apartments were dirt cheap to buy. I'm an artist and my husband is a teacher. Are we gentrifying yet?

I like how the article includes Greenpoint in its sweeping definition of DIY ironic Brooklyn. Last I checked (which was yesterday), Greenpoint was still pretty much Little Poland.

Posted by: Leela at May 18, 2006 1:10 PM

Yes, we are gentrifying now. When artists & teachers move into new neighborhoods because they're affordable, that's gentrification.

The thing is that the word has a terrible sound to it, but-- what's an artist/teacher couple supposed to do? We have to live somewhere (and I say 'we' becuase I'm in a very similar position), and we want to live in neighborhoods that are diverse & affordable, etc. So I don't think gentrifying has to be a sin, as long as we contribute to our neighborhoods in meaningful ways...

Posted by: Anonymous at May 18, 2006 1:15 PM

Yes, we are gentrifying now. When artists & teachers move into new neighborhoods because they're affordable, that's gentrification.

however, I have to disagree with Leela- YES, greenpoint is most definitely DIY ironic, etc. Many of my best poseur friends live there.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 18, 2006 1:16 PM

By Wisconsinites, do you mean those from Up North, Madison, or Milwaukee? Please let us not confuse butter with margarine. By the way, we all in South Brooklyn prefer to call it the War Within the Borough...Northerners are incapable of being "civil".

Posted by: Southern by blood at May 18, 2006 1:19 PM

Baby Greene I am w/ you! I couldn't believe that the writer spent time on Myrtle Ave and still managed to come away with the conclusion that all of Fort Greene is comprised of white ivy leaguers! I live on the corner of Clermont and Myrtle, and I cant say I see too many Vassar grads clad in Paper Denim Jeans chillin at Buff Patty or the Five Spot...Clearly she had an angle in mind and then saught out the evidence to support it.

Posted by: rosie at May 18, 2006 1:35 PM

yeah, this was trite and ridiculous kinda' like the Yassky race speculation posting only about white people.

Posted by: clinton hillbilly at May 18, 2006 2:00 PM

I read this article yesterday and found it mostly annoying. But it's interesting as part of the recent trend of journalists discovering this place across the East River called Brooklyn. I feel like a Native American to all of these Columbuses ... did they think we didn't exist before they found us?

Posted by: Park Sloper at May 18, 2006 2:24 PM

Although the article is fun fluff, it ignores the underlying difference: kids. Brownstone Brooklyn has plenty of decent-to-excellent public (and private) schools. As far as I know, the Williamsburg area does not. So twenty and thirtysomethings without kids go to hipsterville, where they can stroke each others egos about how alternative they are, and people doing childrearing head to MacLaren and Bugaboo land, where they (including me) have their own self-absorbed community. If only there weren't so many damn people who can afford Bugaboos . . .

Posted by: Anonymous at May 18, 2006 2:39 PM

Writers are generally lazy. Generally, they interview their best buds since high school, or their favorite bartender. And they're generally, on average, fearful little wallflowers who timidly take notes on other people's sources of excitement. On average, anyway.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 18, 2006 2:56 PM

hey, c'mon, it's a littttttle bit true...although I do agree with previous poster who said that it sounds more like 10 years ago.
re public schools in billsburg, I know alot of parents there, post-hipsters, if you will, who are working hard for better schools

Posted by: Anonymous at May 18, 2006 3:39 PM

People, lighten up! This was all meant to entertain. Jeez. There are enough stereotypes on all sides. However, as a Park Sloper that works in North Brooklyn (South Brooklyn, I think, is Dyker Heights, right?) I can tell you that the article, although a humor piece, is kind of dead on.

Posted by: Anon at May 18, 2006 3:49 PM

I loved how the article noted "north" and "south" Brooklyn as if Brooklyn consisted only of Wmsbg and PS.

Uh, Coney Island anyone? Red Hook? Flatbush?

This kind of pathetic piece gives journalism a bad name. The poster above who noted that journalists talk to their friends in bars as "research" hit the nail on the head.

Posted by: me at May 18, 2006 4:02 PM

Stereotypes overgeneralize, but as is often the case, there is a kernal of truth here. I thought it was humerous and nothing for us get hung up over. We know who we are.

Posted by: Ed at May 18, 2006 7:20 PM

South Brooklyn has turned into hipster Florida - it's where they all go to retire.

Posted by: jrm at May 18, 2006 7:26 PM

Hear hear, Brownstoner. I spent time in Williamsburgh in the 90s when all Bedford Ave had was that crappy deli by the N 7th subway stop. When the hipsters came, I was driven away by the prices, not by the people. Then I moved to the slummy part of Park Slope just in time to see Blue Ribbon open there. I tried to buy in there too, but alas, it was too late. I think what makes Brooklyn cool is the mix, not the division.

Posted by: Prodigal at May 18, 2006 11:54 PM

i so agree with you b-stoner. i saw the link to it on gawker and i cringed for the embarrassment of the writer and the newspaper.

pointless and fabricated crap. and as usual, the only brooklyn that exists to these publications is the "gentrified" one.

Posted by: pietro at May 19, 2006 5:01 PM

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May 18, 2006

Civil War Silliness

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