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April 11, 2006

HOTD: Does Not Compute on Union Street

houses
We love it when a post writes itself. Here's an email we got this weekend from a reader:

I noticed two twin brownstones on Union Street currently on the market just four doors from one another: 891 Union and 899 Union. 891 Union (listed by Warren Lewis) looks to be a renovated two-family priced at $2,450,000 while 899 Union (listed by Corcoran) is also a two-family but is unrenovated and tired but is priced at $2,750,000. Seems to me the listing agent at Corcoran should put down the crack pipe and try researching the comps before she prices. Who does she think she's fooling when one can walk four doors down and save $300,000 (probably closer to $550,000 because the buyer of 899 will have to sink at least $200,000 into it)?

What's this guy missing? Is there a rational explanation why the house in better condition is priced so much lower?
891 Union - #5122 [Warren Lewis] GMAP P*Shark
899 Union Street [Corcoran] GMAP P*Shark




Comments

They both seem to be in great condition to me. Maybe Warren Lewis is under-pricing in anticipation of a bidding war? Both are incredibly beautiful structures from the outside though.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 11, 2006 11:40 AM

i recently bid on a condo with warren lewis that went for $50k over asking. so perhaps that is their strategy. corcoran overprices everything.

Posted by: diana at April 11, 2006 11:49 AM

Could be the seller getting greedy.

Posted by: anon at April 11, 2006 11:52 AM

I think it is hard to say until you look at each house. The same type of house can vary substantially in price based on the condition, repairs to be done etc.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 11, 2006 12:00 PM

897 sold in march 05 for $2.6M. Considering that prices have gone up over the last 12 months (really, they have), the Corcoran pricing appears to be more on the money.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 11, 2006 12:05 PM

These are asking prices. They are not strictly binding. I think arguments can be made for setting them low or high. Ultimately the market should sort it out. If the agent is doing their job they will inform the bidders of each other's bids in order to induce competition. This does not depend on asking price. The only thing a low asking price might do is to get more low bidders to bid. But these aren't the bidders that matter.

Corcoran seems to set prices high, but is not shy about lowering them as the property remains unsold. (see natefind.com for hundreds of examples) Whether this is good for the seller, is debateable (time value of money, staleness, etc.). It is also possible that the Warren Lewis model leaves money on the table.

Posted by: bkborn at April 11, 2006 12:17 PM

Other brokers priced this at just under $2mil. and did not get the listing.. The broker certainly does not know what she is doing. She was originally with a local firm and needs listings. The manager at Corcoran's Park Slope office should consult with his staff prior to putting new/high profile properties on the market..

Corcoran also overpriced the house on First Street Park Block at just under $4mil..

Posted by: Minnie at April 11, 2006 12:21 PM

The comparables certainly do not support the price. The Corcoran house needs approx. $500,000 to make it livable.. So I agree that a $2mil. price is the highest it should sell for.

It is not in 321.. The market in the mid $2mil. range is soft... not as much in the way of buyers in this range.

This house needs new plumbing and electric as well...

Posted by: David at April 11, 2006 12:25 PM

Prices have remained steady, not gone up.. I saw the Corcoran house and it needs much more than $200,000 to make in livable.. That will only take care of the kitchen and the baths...

Posted by: Charlotte at April 11, 2006 12:36 PM

In this example, i think the 'Warren Lewis model'(price low) has the advantage over the 'Corcoran model'(price high).

Keep in mind that only 11% seperates these two properties. If a buyer of the WL property puts in a bid @ 10% above ask, that would put the price @ $2.695M. Compared to the Corcoran property @ $2.75M, this would seem very reasonable and likely to move.

The corcoran property on the other hand, will probably see buyers lowball for several reasons. The house 2 doors down is going for $300K less and this property needs a little loving $$$. A 10% lowball offer put the price @$2.475M.

Posted by: ItsAWrap at April 11, 2006 12:37 PM

$2,750,000 for the Corcoran house is just too ridiculous... They folks from Corcoran are like cowboys There is no reason this should be priced at this level..

The broker must be on crack..

Posted by: Billy at April 11, 2006 12:39 PM

The Warren Lewis Union house is not priced cheap... It is priced close to the market to sell.. ItsaWrap does not get it.... THE COST TO DO THE RENOVATIONS ON THE OTHER HOUSE WILL APPROACH $500,000. No one is going to offer $2.4 for the Corcoran house..

Posted by: Chris at April 11, 2006 12:44 PM

May be a seller testing the waters -- putting the house out to see if he hits the jackpot -- and having the bad luck that his neighbor is selling at the same time.

Or maybe the owner of the Corcoran house is just doing a BIG favor for his friend 4 houses down.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 11, 2006 1:17 PM

Chris, i get it all too well. I was making a specific observation that Warren Lewis' strategy of pricing low was better than Corcoran's strategy of pricing high.

If you wanna have an argument, would you care to comment on the chances of the Warren Lewis property going for ask or higher?

If the Warren Lewis property does go for greater than ask, you better believe this property will go for greater than $2.4M. Nothing like a scorned bidder...

Posted by: ItsAWrap at April 11, 2006 1:24 PM

Corcoran's listing claims it's a 21' wide; Property Shark says the both are 17'-9". If Corcoran's listing really were 21', it might be worth the premium.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 11, 2006 1:50 PM

Mygosh - some of you must be so rich and have such high standards that you'd think it would take $500k to make the place 'livable'. Surprised would even think of living on Union anyways - being 2way street and a bus line and all.
I'd love to see your places so I would know for sure what squalor I inhabit.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 11, 2006 2:19 PM

The reason it will take $500,000 to make this livable is electric ($50,000 plus), kitchen and baths ($150,000-$200,000) floors and painting ($50,000), facade work $20,000.. Plumbing if original $50,000 plus... windows $30-$50,000 Remember unless you know a reasonable contractor, this is Park Slope. On average a gut renovation of a house such as the Corcoran listing costs approx. $150/sq ft or about $500,000

Posted by: Anonymous at April 11, 2006 5:03 PM

$500K...what am I missing?

According to the listing, "The mechanicals and roof have all been updated recently"

Based on the pics on the site, I don't see it. Now...I don't believe that it should be selling for more than the WL listing, but gut reno???? Y'all have lost it.

Posted by: Glenn Wellington at April 11, 2006 5:36 PM

OMG...I am the smug one now....It's good, no, GREAT to have the know how to restore a place by myself. I have never spent over $150k for a proper, upscale (in my humble opinion) renovation/restoration. Damn, if contractors are getting that much, I must be in the wrong business.

Posted by: Yente at April 11, 2006 6:11 PM

For the 99th time, sellers price their properties. You don't know why this agent took this listing. Could be personal friend, etc.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 11, 2006 7:47 PM

yes agree with poster above seller price their properties!!!!

Posted by: armchair warrior at April 11, 2006 8:09 PM

I am really tired of people blaming everything on crack and crack smoking.

Posted by: Whitney and Bobby at April 11, 2006 8:16 PM

if seller's price listings then what is the real estate broker for? any GOOD agent will tell a seller that he/she will NOT list the property for a ridiculously high price. it is a waste of time for everyone. she should have turned the listing down PERIOD. it is better not to look to desperate and have your company, once again, look bad.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 11, 2006 9:03 PM

500000 to renovate 150000 to 200000 for kitchens and baths, windows for 30000 HOly Crap Batman I need to find a new line of work in the contracting biz. On second thought I already did that Guess I was underbidding all my jobs. No wonder I never made any money...

Posted by: Anonymous at April 11, 2006 11:11 PM

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Why is everyone so damned critical of rising prices in our neighborhood? Doesn't a price increase reflect an increase in value? We're still no where near Manhattan brownstone prices! So please, expect more price increases!

Secondly, perhaps the Corcoran listing is on the mark and dinky Warren Lewis is underpricing its properties? Why do you assume the lower priced property is priced accurately and the upper priced property is priced too high?

Why does everyone bitch and moan about crack pipes and greed just because others are realizing how valuable our neighborhoods are?

Posted by: Anonymous at April 11, 2006 11:33 PM

"Why is everyone so damned critical of rising prices in our neighborhood? Doesn't a price increase reflect an increase in value?"

No. It just reflects low interest rates and easy credit. Plus, it also reflects rising taxes and an end to the diversity of income that people moving to Brooklyn claim to love.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 12, 2006 9:06 AM

interest rates and credit have driven the market generally. but they do not explain the shrinking gap between brooklyn and manhattan prices. that has happened because, simply, more people who could choose otherwise now want to live in brooklyn. that's partly from a change in perception, partly from actual qualitative changes like increases in middle- and upper-middle-class amenities.

in other words, maybe price will cool off or even fall across the board. but barring a major social change, brownstone brooklyn is never going to be as cheap compared with manhattan as it used to be. like it or not

Posted by: Anonymous at April 12, 2006 9:20 AM

Agents, or at least good agents offer a suggested listing price to sellers. Ultimately the seller decides on the price. Agents sometimes have to accept listings even if they don't agree with the price. This happens in every business to some degree or another. Most posters here wouldn't be able to handle the constant scrutiny and criticism agents face. You don't understand what goes on and for once I wish that you would all just cut us some slack.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 12, 2006 3:50 PM

What should a good agent take a listing that is 20-30% overpriced??? In terms of renovation, do you know what it costs to put new windows in a place??? It could easily cost $30,000. A crappy kitchen can cost close to $50,000 and baths at $10-$15,000 for nothing extraordinary. You would be hard pressed to renovate this house for anything close to $200,000 unless you were doing the work yourself...

Posted by: Anonymous at April 12, 2006 6:21 PM

Agents do not have to accept listings which are overpriced.... Let them go to another agent to start and pick up the exclusive at a later point

Posted by: Jeffrey at April 12, 2006 6:23 PM

All agents should offer selling prices based upon comparable sales... Corcoran does not live by this philosophy. Most of their houses are overpriced

Posted by: Peggy A at April 12, 2006 9:21 PM


Well, Peggy, Corcoran has obviously been quite successful. When I sell my house, I'll probably go with them too. Why not overprice a house? Buyers might not like it, but if a seller waits long enough a rich fool might just walk in the door.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 15, 2006 9:03 AM

As the owner of one of the Union Street properties under scrutiny, I don't see the big controversity involved. If you are interested and really love the home, end of story. It will not go unsold and stop insulting our broker.

Posted by: annieb at April 18, 2006 1:39 AM

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