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March 27, 2006

Residential Sale in Brooklyn: 17-Footer in the Slope

Park Slope $1,925,000
360 Fourth Street
house2-family, 4-story brownstone; 5 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, eat-in kitchen in primary triplex; 1 bedroom. 1 bath in simplex; original details in each; 17-by-100 lot; taxes $3,500; listed at $1,980,000. Broker: Warren Lewis.
Residential Sales [NY Times] GMAP




Posted by Brownstoner at 10:22 AM | Comments (38)
Categories: Sales

Comments

There better be gold in the basement.

Posted by: bkborn at March 27, 2006 10:36 AM

17- and 16-foot houses are not as rare in the Slope as people at this site seem to think. Except on the most prime blocks and some stretches of the avenues, 16 to 18 feet is more the norm. If this is 40 or so feet deep, you're talking around $700/s.f. -- high for a house by 6th Ave, but not outlandish for a house in the 321 district. A lot depends on the condition.

Posted by: linusvanpelt at March 27, 2006 10:48 AM

you know, every time I see these prices in the slope, it strikes me that we should pull together to get our schools going in fort greene-- Normally, this thought occurs to me in terms of what the kids need, but of course it is a real-estate issue as well. Is there a movement afoot to improve PS 20 etc?

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2006 11:04 AM

I'd been down for that movement. Count me in.

Posted by: Iz at March 27, 2006 11:36 AM

wow what a hateful, ignorant, and destructive comment! these people are talking about improving the schools-- and even if real estate is part of the motivation, it's clearly not the only one. and even if it were the only motivation, the kids would still benefit.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2006 12:03 PM

Is there a listing link for the house, beside the NYT this narrower houses are very interesting because most of time they have a central stair in the middle of the house rather than at the entrance, this give more usable space and eventualy no bearing walls on the middle which it gives nuch more of an open space and not so divided, usually you can create a more modern lofty house wich such, I have a similar house in Clinton Hill and my 2nd floor is completely open 17 by 48 that is great for someone that looks for details and more open floorplan,anyway, just curios to see inside.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2006 12:05 PM

wow, if we're talking about overprice house, have a gander at this 1, $2 million for Raplye Street....

http://www.brownharrisstevens.com/detail.aspx?id=463996&CFID=54887&CFTOKEN=87116670

Posted by: anonymous at March 27, 2006 1:59 PM

or this...

http://corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=783093

(i'm sure this one was discussed before)

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2006 2:03 PM

Or the FSBO on 369 Grand (@ Gates) in CH. Seller wants 1.3 for a reno project.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2006 2:11 PM

Anon 2:03 - You're right, I think that one has been discussed. It's insane - it would take $400K (for a total outlay of $1.5M) to make it as nice as a very nice, fully renovated house TWO DOORS DOWN that sold quickly at $1.3. Ironically, the nicer house was even sold by the same broker. It's been on the market at the exact same price for over a year. The owners are insane, and the broker must be pulling her hair out.

However, I think 369 Gates will get $1.3M - it's a 22' wide house on a landmarked block. The others are 17' on a non-landmarked block. That's all the diff in the world.

Posted by: Mr. Minerva at March 27, 2006 3:35 PM

That clifton place one has got to be a joke. I literally cackled, and I'm usually the one saying, "It's worth it."

12:03 pm, I must have missed the hateful, destructive comment. What is it, exactly?

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2006 3:58 PM

something negative about yuppies haha it didn't seem like such a big deal but I guess it was.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2006 4:12 PM

Yeah, I think referring to yuppies as scum is now legally a hate crime in New York.

Posted by: linusvanpelt at March 27, 2006 4:22 PM

We ding'd it. Something to the effect of "Die Yuppie Scum".

Posted by: Brownstoner at March 27, 2006 4:44 PM

Linus - remember that everytime you point a finger - 4 point back at you.....

Posted by: BigBubba at March 27, 2006 4:46 PM

I'm not a yuppie, nor do I have kids, but I still want schools to improve. FREAK, I know.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2006 4:51 PM

Dude, I AM yuppie scum. In fact, I'm the crust of scum that forms on the top of the scum.

Posted by: linusvanpelt at March 27, 2006 5:00 PM

OK, 104 HALL ASKING $895 IS WORSE THAN THE OVER A MILLION $ THE ABOVE ARE ASKING. IT IS AN ABSOLUTE DUMP, INSIDE AND OUT, AND LOCATION IS THE WORST, RIGHT NEAR THE BQE. WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE? IF SOMEONE BUYS IT AT EVEN CLOSE TO THAT PRICE I WILL HAVE A HEART ATTACK.

Posted by: ANON at March 27, 2006 5:11 PM

mr. minerva @ 3:35,

369 grand's asking for a 70% price increase (maybe foreclosure or sale from relative/friend?) since May. What about the over 6 family status? seems overpriced like 121 st. james. cheaper, a couple of feet wider than st. james, but further away from prime and not nearly as good condition (from what we can see from either openhouse/photos).

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2006 5:50 PM

What about this one on clifton almost 1 million. It's "configured" as a four family. with no fire escape. Are they insane?


http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=855774

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2006 6:32 PM

house on 369 Grand won't get 1.3 not even 1M I am ready to bet on that, the house
is 7 family no appraiser can bring it for a mortgage. It has to be done as a commercial loan which mean you have to put 25% down plus 400k renovation. I run all the numbers with my sources. the owner paid 763K for it may 2005.

Posted by: developerxx at March 27, 2006 7:59 PM

re. schools in Fort Greene -- the Fort Greene Association is, I believe, trying to get involved with PS 20 in some way. There is a relatively new principal there, too, who has been trying to forge partnerships with BAM and with the Brooklyn Museum. I don't know how much of this so far is just talk and hope rather than action, but at least it's a start. I too look around Fort Greene and wonder when/whether more of the newer arrivals to the neighborhood are going to start sending their kids there...it would be fantastic if a critical mass got involved.

Posted by: anon at March 27, 2006 8:00 PM

i do hope the house on grand gets $1.3M, my RENOVATED two family house on the same block will be worth $2M. thank you! but alas, just a dream because there is no way that they will get $1.3M for that house.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2006 8:59 PM

does anyone who comment on these public schools have any experience going to public schools in nyc? i, for one, did, my entire life and i think i turned out ok.

and it was in queens, in a very mixed, multi-ethnic school, even back in the late 70's, early 80's. believe me, it's not what the curriculum is, or who you sit next to in homeroom, but it really starts at home. if the parents instilled work ethic in their kids, it wouldn't really matter where you went to school.

Posted by: ltjbukem at March 27, 2006 9:05 PM

I don't pointer a finger, I give one. I'm just generous that way.

Won't _you_ please give today?

Posted by: CancelMoose at March 27, 2006 10:52 PM

ltibukem, I'm not sure I get your comment. The initial comment was pro-public school, in that it mentioned the double bonus of improving FG's PS 20. For years now, the perception that 321 is this amazing public school (it is pretty good, of course) has helped fuel real estate prices in the center slope, and being within its boundaries adds a premium to a home's price. PS 20 just doesn't have the same rep.

Posters haven't written off the public schools, they've discussed making them better. PS 20 could be better.

Whenever folks excuse crappy schools with talk about parents not doing their job, or not instilling a work ethic, it makes me nervous. One, it sounds kind of racist and/or classist. And two, if parents in a neighborhood are failing, shouldn't the city invest more in the school and community rather than write those kids off who had the bad luck to be born to inadequate parents?

Posted by: Anonymous at March 27, 2006 11:48 PM

i think this is a really important (and delicate) issue. fort greene is such a wonderfully diverse place. i'm really proud to live in a neighborhood so mixed culturally- it's rare! but the FG public schools don't reflect that diversity because many of the newer FG residents (people of mix races, but wealthier) are not sending their kids to the local schools. so our schools are not reflecting the diversity of our neighborhood, which is unfortunate. i think the more important question is how do we integrate the new FG residents into ps 20- rather than how do we improve ps 20 from the outside.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 28, 2006 8:13 AM

Chicken or the egg?

Posted by: Brownstoner at March 28, 2006 8:49 AM

I think that part of the problem too is that a lot of the new residents (I count myself, though I've lived here for 8 yrs or so)- don't have kids.

I know that a lot do as well, but-- I'm the original poster about the schools, and I think I'm typical of a lot of the new residents.

I'm a professor at CUNY w/o kids, so my interest in the schools is not about myself or my family-- it's just a more general interest in education & the wellbeing of the community. I'm thinking that maybe we should find ways to contribute to the schools that are near us-- without having to make a really overwhelming commitment to volunteering weekly. For me, I'd volunteer monthly-- that would be manageable.... I think I will look into it, and I'll post if I learn something useful.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 28, 2006 9:40 AM

to the Cuny prof: please do, and let us know what you find out. A lot of us in the neighborhood would like to have a chance to contribute to the schools (if it would be helpful to the schools) but, like you, can't make a weekly commitment.

Posted by: anon at March 28, 2006 10:11 AM

There has been a dedicated group of parents trying to improve PS11 (Washington Ave between Greene and Gates) for years. Roadblocks are thrown up from every side - principal, DOE, other parents who resent "newcomers" trying to change things, etc. If you want to climb into a huge can of racial/social/economic worms, PS11 has it all. No good deed, yada yada yada.

Posted by: Amy at March 28, 2006 11:32 AM

"i think the more important question is how do we integrate the new FG residents into ps 20- rather than how do we improve ps 20 from the outside."

That says it all. If you want to improve the school, you have to be willing to send your kids there, not wait for other people to improve it and notify you once it's good enough for your own kid.

Not judging other parenting decisions, because it's a tough call, but that's the only way to do it.

So often on this site people will discuss a neighborhood with less-than-stellar schools and then say, "Oh, but new people buying in are going to send their kids to private school anyway." I can understand that, but like it or not, they are opting out of perhaps the most significant way they can help their neighborhood -- oldtimers and newcomers alike -- by getting involved themselves.

Posted by: jps at March 28, 2006 12:28 PM

People with the means will not take the chance on a public school that is not yet up to par. I wouldn't, and be honest, if you had the means for private school, would you? And unfortunately, it is generally true that it all starts at home, so children of homes without a lot of emphasis or real understanding of the liberating power of education get shortchanged. If much of the student body has children from such backgrounds (or the more common scenario of where the children have parents who have never experienced what a truly good school is like and therefore might not know better and may resent an outsider's critiques or suggestions for improvement), it makes changing the school overall that much harder.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 28, 2006 5:20 PM

anon,

I think we're agreeing. I don't say I fault these parents for going private, just that they'll never change their local schools if they do so. And while all the problems you cite are very real, there are schools in nyc that have changed in spite of them.

Posted by: jps at March 28, 2006 8:59 PM

I agree jps. It really is a matter of who is willing to take that chance if they have the choice to do otherwise. I suppose economics and critical mass of more involved parents who cannot afford private school but who come from well educated backgrounds or otherwise have a strong education ethic will ultimately do it.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 28, 2006 10:33 PM

this new FG public charter school sounds great-

http://www.communityroots.org/index.php

it has a partnership with BAM. down the road, when i'm thinking about school for my own kids (don't have any yet)- arts education would be very important to me- so this curriculum sounds ideal to me. anyone know more about it?

Posted by: lc at March 29, 2006 7:06 AM

me again-
after posting about the community roots school website, i just went back and read their site more thoroughly...wow! it's sounds like such a great school- how exciting for the neighborhood. maybe soon FG will have the best public school in brooklyn...

Posted by: lc at March 29, 2006 7:23 AM

that is awesome. thanks for posting it, lc!

Posted by: Anonymous at March 29, 2006 1:36 PM

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