Open House Picks

I wish there was a picture of the Lincoln Road house from a different angle.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 17, 2006 11:51 AM

1.6M in Lefferts Manor? That's too funny for words. But regardless, this house isn't all that appealing. The width is nice, but the rooms are all standard size. Details aren't that great. And I would buy anything on Bedford since it gets horrible traffic in rush hour. And the not only do the cars drive by blaring their stereos, but they get stuck at the traffic light--and you're entire 1.6M house shakes and rattles.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 17, 2006 12:06 PM

soory--would NOT buy anything on Bedford.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 17, 2006 12:07 PM

Anon 12:06 I can understand your other reasons but the details? I happen to think it is gorgeous inside

Posted by: Anonymous at March 17, 2006 12:10 PM

Sorry Anon I just realized you were talking about the other one

Posted by: Anonymous at March 17, 2006 12:11 PM

I live across the street from the CG house, and I nearly fell out of my chair when I saw the price. The house is on landmarked President between Smith & Hoyt (yes, it's been known as an "ideal block" for decades)and needs a total gut reno including complete new roof, new windows, new exterior iron work (which has literally rotted away), new b'stone facade...everything. It appears that the heir to the house (the deceased owner's sister who lived in a nursing home) has died, and the remaining heirs (nieces and nephews)have now put the house up for sale. Although I'm glad the house is on the market and it will finally be restored to lovely, inhabitable home it can be, I agree with "west," have fun with this one. The $1.7 million price tag is just the beginning.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 17, 2006 12:30 PM

I can almost understand spending 900K for a house in Lefferts Manor, since if you really want a house there aren't too many choices at that price. But at 1.6M (or even 1.2) you have choices. I know the area has many positive attributes, but for that kind of money I wouldn't make the major compromises needed to living there.

I've been visiting the area for the past 7 years and absolutely nothing has changed (except for the prices). If the area showed some signs of "emergence" I might see taking a chance on it, but as is you'd have to be crazy--or be someone who only cared about original details.

I also agree with the previous post that the Rutlan Road house is very underwhelming. At 25X45 it is smaller than a regular 4 story. And Bedford is not a street you want to be on.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 17, 2006 1:20 PM

I don't want to rile up the PLG bashers once again, but my view of the 4 choices above shows the PLG houses to be the most interesting and the best value. My bet is they will sell quickly and for good reason.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 17, 2006 1:44 PM

I'm not bashing anything or any place, thanks. Just expressing an opinion.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 17, 2006 1:51 PM

As a PS to the prior 1:51 post, I actually think that the other house BHS has for 1.6M is almost worth 1.45 or even 1.5. That is a special house! I still wouldn't sink that kind of money into the area, but I can see why someone would put up with the area for a house like that. But not for the ones featured here.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 17, 2006 2:11 PM

I love a good tudor, but this one looks like it's been tampered with. Would love to see more exterior pix.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 17, 2006 3:11 PM

Is there a difference between Prospect Lefferts Garden & Lefferts Manor?
I know some parts are Landmark...

As far as the 2 homes, the Lincoln road one price aside, the Kitchen looks great, the bathroom looks a little cheesy for my taste and maybe it's just the photos but the floors look to shiny, to much polyurethane for my taste and just not classic Victorian. For that kind of money I would have to re do the all the floors.
The Rutland Road home not so cheesy floors look natural and not high glossy, a little more classic.
But still high in price….

Posted by: Anonymous at March 17, 2006 3:23 PM

The Lincoln Road house IS in Lefferts Manor. Lefferts Manor is a subset of Prospect Lefferts Gardens. This tudor went through a total exterior reno over the past several months. Must be a flipper. Front facade is quite lovely. No alterations to original facade. New roof, new paint, etc.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 17, 2006 3:33 PM

The back of my mind I said that looks like other homes I have seen that are flipped. Same cheesey floors. You would think they would learn, and not be so darn cheesy.
Has anyone seen inside, is the work cheep inside...

Posted by: Anonymous at March 17, 2006 4:01 PM

IMO, the Boerum Hill house is absolutely the winner! As is often the case, the more expensive houses are much better value. Maybe because there is less competition in these market segments. This house is wide, big and in move in condition. Compared to the Carol Gardens house, where you would have to put in 600K+ to restore it, the Boerum Hill seems like a steal! Not to talk about the location, which is the much better.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 17, 2006 4:31 PM

Yes, that row of 4 story houses on Midwood is phenomenal. As I said in my earlier post, I can see paying a small fortune for one of those that was in great shape. The Rutland Road house pales in comparison--I don't know how BHS priced them the same. The Rutland house doesn't strike me as anything better than the 4 story on Rutland that Corcoran has for 1.395M (which I also think is overpriced for the area).

Posted by: Anonymous at March 17, 2006 5:34 PM

Street parking is pretty easy in PLG and the drug dealers all have Range Rovers and Humvees which they park on the street. So a normal car is pretty safe.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 17, 2006 8:22 PM

Everyone seems to either ignore the 25 foot width of the Rutland Rd house or not particularly value it. The house on Midwood is 20 feet, and I find the difference noteworthy. That said, Midwood 1, as this block is known is perhaps the nicest in the Manor.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 17, 2006 10:23 PM

140 Lincoln was bought at a city auction and flipped and now flipped again.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 17, 2006 10:24 PM

The thing about the 25 foot width of the Rutland Road house is that the floorplan doesn't take advantage of it. The living room is just 12'6" wide--the same as or narrower than in a 20' wide house. And it is only 3 stories, whereas the Midwood street hous is 4. And the Midwood street house is not on a busy street. Both seem really overpriced, but I can see the argument for paying top dollar for the Midwood street house.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 17, 2006 10:58 PM

Re: the Carroll Gardens house. While I agree that the Boerum Hill house looks beautiful, I disagree about Dean St. being a preferred location. That block of President St. is truly one of the most ideal locations in all of Carroll Gardens for both beauty and convenience and I wish I lived on it. Although if you prefer Boerum Hill in general, of course Dean Street is lovely. Still, that CG house seems way overpriced.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 18, 2006 12:06 PM

I agree that President St is a great place to be, but Boerum Hill is so convenient to all the subways. For a family where people have to go to different places in the city on a daily basis that really hard to beat.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 18, 2006 1:37 PM

A question about the Lefferts Manor market: Why have the high-end home increased more than the lower-end ones? I apologise for repeating this, but back in 2001 we bid on a house next to and identical to the Maple street house now on the market for 950K (same row, same size, same layout, same details, same condition). Our bid of 525K was not accepted. So from 525K to 950K is an 80% increase in 5 years. But these houses asking 1.6M couldn't have been more than 750K, max, back in 2001. So that is an increase of at least 115%. Is there that much more demand for grand homes than there is for not so grand ones?

Posted by: Anonymous at March 18, 2006 5:50 PM

Hey, Brownstoner, what happened to my 6:38 post? It seems to have disapeared! Was there something offensive in there? If so, please explain, since it escapes me.

However, my post was still up at 11:10, since someone responded to one of my comments. The house we were warned against buying in 2001 by friends in LM was on Rutland Road just off of Flatbush. We were told that that was a "bad" corner and that the residents of the apartment building hung out on the street at all hours in the summer and blared music from the front and rear of the building. My understanding is that the noisiness of the corners varries a lot, depending on the specific apartment buildings. So, 11:10, I hope your corner is OK.

Bob, thanks for the explanation. And, for the record, it was lack of amenities that concerened us about the area, not safety. Your explanation notwithstanding, I still don't see how major price increases can be justified in the face of a lack of any progress along Flatbush. When things do change, then LM houses will actually be worth 1.5M. But untill then, I don't see it.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 18, 2006 11:43 PM

Bob, as for the Tudor we passed on in 2001, who knows. My freinds in the nabe tell me the corner is still really noisy. As for the issue of prices, it's true that rise and fall of prices are incomprehensible, but that really doesn't respond to my point that without an increase in ameniites LM isn't worth the money being asked for the prime houses. As for me, my place has almost tripled since we bought it in 2001 and I plan to sell it and move to Westchester as soon as my oldest child is school-age. I can't fathom spending 25K a year on school and I'd like the kids to be able to run around outside. But that is another story...

Posted by: Anonymous at March 19, 2006 3:11 PM

I find Lefferts Manor to be MUCH quieter than our former nabe (center Park Slope). I am always baffled by the comments indicating that it is loud here. In fact, yesterday I went over to the Slope and felt accosted by the noise level. I must be adjusting to my new environment. As far as kids playing outside, mine plays in our backyard and I see many kids playing out front (I'm sure mine will too as soon as she gets over the awe of having a back yard). Tuition does stink, but we made a decision to pay it when we decided to raise our child in the city after a very disappointing move to the burbs.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 19, 2006 4:06 PM

I agree that most of the area is relatively quiet. But we all know that the corner 3:11 is refering to has serious loitering and noise issues. Why not admit that? The comment wasn't that the area was noisy--it was referring to one corner. We can't try to boost the area unless we're going be honest and acknowledge the problems.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 19, 2006 6:06 PM

Re: "Noisy corners on Flatbush Ave. bordering PLG/Lefferts Manor:

They may still be noisy, but there has been a staggeringly positive trajectory in noise and loitering reduction on these corners over the past five years. I watch it daily, as I own one of these "corner" houses. Part of the reason for these improvements... Lefferts Manor has an active Neighborhod Association that partners with the 71st Precinct to address these quality of life issues. Yes, Flatbush sure ain't Park Slope, but having live on a corner almost ten years now, the subtle improvements are profound. This safer environment had to preceed any amenity improvements.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 19, 2006 9:09 PM

Bob, my parents bought a Brooklyn brownstone in 1965, so I wouldn't say only crazies were doing that in the 70's. And yes, the burbs aren't for everyone, and I couldn't live in any of the suburban burbs near the city either. But after a year of expeditions and staying with friends who have left the city, we've decided that the nothern part of Westchester is just right for us. Beautiful countryside, a sense of or ruralness, many parks and nature preserves, but great schools, good restaurants and cafes, an art center with loads of galleries nearby, and a number of good art museums. And NYC 45 minutes away. As a city kid, I want my own kids to have a better balance in their lives. Fortunately, a lovely house up there can be had for just over a million, which nowadays is a bargain.

And to Anon 4:06--when I said that I want my kids to be able run around outside, I didn't mean on the sidewalk or in a 20 by 40 backyard. That's not running around.

To anon 9:09, my comment was about one particular corner. All I know about it is that we were warned away from it in 2001 by friends who live in LM and that they recently told us that the problems are the same. They say they usually walk on another street in order to avoid the corner. But I have no firsthand knowledge of it all. And in no way was I making a blanket statement about the area.

Finally, to Brownstoner, no problem about deleting the original post. Cleaning up all that spam must be a headache!

Posted by: Anonymous at March 19, 2006 11:55 PM

We spend time in the suburbs visiting friends, and I grew up in the NYC suburbs. As soon as I was 12, I spent every last dime on the bus to Manhattan. The sense of suburban anomie was overwhelming... I'm sometimes tempted by the open spaces and educational choices, since my kids are still young (they are begging for a swimming pool), but the prospect of raising teenagers in suburbia leaves me cold. It sounds like some people have found a good balance in PLG. We certainly feel that way in Ditmas Park, and I have to say, the schools in Ditmas Park (if your kids are reasonably bright) have a lot to offer, and it doesn't that's not just true for the elementary years. Midwood HS produces more Westinghouse scholars in the entire nation (and that includes Scarsdale HS!).

The only time I want to get away is in high summer, but who doesn't. So we're thinking of purchasing a summer home in upstate NY. Of course once the kids are teenagers, they will never want to go there...

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 9:22 AM

I (the one planning to move to upper Westchester) feel intense "suburban anomie" in the Jersey burbs and lower Westchester. Those miles and miles of deadly quiet streets lined with houses without a soul in sight send shivers down my spine. I couldn't last a week in Scarsdale, for example. Upper Westchester, however, feels like the country to me. Many of the towns feel like villages and once you're out of the towns it's rolling hills, woods, and fields. To my mind, there's no suburban anomie to be felt. And the last few years have seen an explosion of cultural venues as artists pushed out of Brooklyn have opened galleries, museums, and art schools. Most of the people we know and meet up there are ex-city folk and are the kind of creative people we used to have as neighbors in Brooklyn. But it is obviously all highly subjective and personal. As with Brooklyn neighborhoods, what works for one person doesn't work for another.

Back to the topic, anyone go to the Rutlan raod open house?

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 10:03 AM

Bob, linusvanpelt isn't saying that life in LM is "bleak." His point is the one I was trying to make earlier--price increases in the slope, carrol gardens, fort greene, etc have gone hand-in-hand with an improvement in amenities. Prices in PS are manhattan-level but PS now has manhattan-quality stores and restaurants. Since LM has not seen a similar increase in amenities and is, according to you residents, still dealing with assorted quality of life problems, it follows that the ratio of LM prices to slope prices should be lower than it used to be when the difference in amenities wasn't as huge.

And, looking at the BHS site, I'd say the Rutland Road house at an asking of 1.6 is about on par with a 1st street house with an asking of 2.2--way above the 50% ratio.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 11:15 AM

The only plus of the crazy market is that it is forcing a higher quality of people to move to the burbs and other places outside of the city. Whereas the burbs used to get the boring monied types, they are now getting influxes of editors, teachers, writers, artists, architects, designers, and so on. The kind of people that made Brooklyn cool and hip in the first place.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 2:29 PM

Here's what you just don't get linusvanpelt & Anon 11:15,

Those amenities that you keep going on & on about are just not that important to some of us. I like not having a bunch of restuarants luring strangers into my neighborhood. I like not being tempted by $5 coffee. Which is not to say that having a few nice restuarants isn't a good thing, but too much of a good thing is well...too much.

I prefer the ability to own my home without needing a tenant. It's worth the cost to have my daughter growing up with her cousins, aunts & uncles near. And while the museums, park & botanic gardens have always been there, I think like much of Brooklyn, they are now more appreciated.

Looking at the developements that are taking place west of the PLG side of Prospect Park, I don't think they're going to change any of those neighborhoods for the better. But I'm sure there will be increased amenities. Enjoy them.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 2:34 PM

The irony is (as I understand it from friends who live there), the beautiful homes (or at least the limestone row houses) in Lefferts Manors and vicinity were built for the middle class, and not the upper middle class--the teachers and clerks referenced above. Sadly, they are now very out of reach to any who would be looking to buy today.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 3:55 PM

Bob can speak to that I'm sure. But yes from what I've read the LM houses were built for the middle class as a cheaper alternative to Park Slope and other areas. The later stages of the development (the brick houses and Tudor houses) were for more working class types. Now that those houses are selling in the 900's, not too many working class types can afford them.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 4:15 PM