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March 21, 2006
House of the Day: Bushwick Battered Beauty
A reader brought this crumbing Bushwick mansion to our attention yesterday and it was love at first sight. The three-family corner prop is at 747 Bushwick Avenue, the area's "mansion row". The ad spends a lot of time laying out the mortgage math for potential buyers which always makes us a little suspicious ("methinks thou doth protest too much") but we're in love, right, so it doesn't matter. The two-car garage is another bonus. And if that's not enough to convince you, the broker's got the most rocking tie we've ever seen. In all seriousness, we can't make a reasonable evaluation without knowing the environs a little better, so we're hoping that those more knowledgeable than ourselves will drive the discussion.
Corner Historic Brick [Elliman via Craigslist] GMAP P*Shark
Comments
I see a badly attempt at reno in that kitchen...how is the area? Is it worth that much for the amount of work it needs?
Posted by: Anon at March 21, 2006 11:37 AM
this house is on bushwick ave.
even if they find someone to buy it at 1 mil . it will never appraise
Posted by: electgricgreek1 at March 21, 2006 12:01 PM
beautiful house on the outside...but the inside looks like it needs a lot of work. Can't imagine spending a mil in bushwick. But then again, I balked at spending $500K for a brownstone in Clinton Hill 5 years ago (hindsight is a '*$&*#'). Still, it seems a bit over-priced to me. Bushwick Ave is lovely though....on a clear, sunny day.
Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 12:16 PM
I believe it's on the corner of Bushwick and Cedar. Two blocks away from the Central Avenue Stop on the "M" train. one block further is "Buena Vida", a new long term care facility put by Assemblymen Vito Lopez. Somebody in the community will buy it and fix it up.
Posted by: anon at March 21, 2006 12:18 PM
It was listed in the nytimes over two weeks ago for $1,100,000. Realism has already set in because the price has dropped 40K. More to come.
Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 12:32 PM
it hasen't dropped 40 k
it's an open listing . this guy has it listed lower
Posted by: electricgreek1 at March 21, 2006 12:35 PM
http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/rfs/142827298.html........same house listed higher with another agent... thus open listing
Posted by: electricgreek1 at March 21, 2006 12:40 PM
If this really is at the corner of Bushwick and Cedar, then that area is not bad at all. Many of the nearby loft building have been claimed by artists recently. And Flushing Avenue, a few blocks away, is becoming their Bedford Ave.
If this house really is located there, then it is a VERY good deal. I am tempted to buy it myself.
Posted by: veggieburger at March 21, 2006 12:47 PM
got it off propertyshark
address is 747 bushwick ave . corner of ceder
last sold @ 365k in aug. 05
Posted by: electricgreek1 at March 21, 2006 1:00 PM
Good luck veggieburger. Seems like a risky proposition; paying 'future value' for a property in today's market. I'm sure that property will be worth 2mil someday. Bushwick ave is very broad/wide...sort of reminds me of eastern parkway. And I'm sure that it was once upon a time very grand but...a mil seems to be stretching it. Which trains is this house close to anyway? I'm always skeptical of rentals/sales listing on craigslist, prices are almost always over-inflated.
Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 1:05 PM
It is on Bushwick and Cedar. Having grown up a few blocks away, I know the house well. It is a travesty what the current owner has done to this house, but the previous owners destroyed it. If I recall correctly, there might have been pitbull fighting in the building.
There are many mansions on Bushwick.
Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 1:46 PM
I posted above. It is ridiculously overpriced for the area. Artists or not.
Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 1:48 PM
the real travesty is what the LONG time residents have done to all of bushwick .
things are improving as they are getting pushed out
Posted by: electricgreek1 at March 21, 2006 1:51 PM
wait...are they paying the buyer $1mm to live in bushwick...lol...can we please stop saying that $1mm is a good deal simply b/c it is in brooklyn. no house should cost more than $400-$500K in bushwick...period. this is insane.
Posted by: anon at March 21, 2006 1:55 PM
Brownstoner, were you being sarcastic about the tie?
Posted by: PPSer at March 21, 2006 1:58 PM
I saw it two or three weeks ago. It feels like a standard flipper, the kitchen is bad, there are too many little rooms. The light is great, though, windows everywhere. It feels like a traditional family house, with some garden area and a huge deck off the second floor. That turret is actually the prettiest thing about the house, and made my heart leap -- it emphasized the banality of the rest of the house. As I came back downstairs, all I could think was: Suburbia.
The area is very very quiet, rugged in the commercial area walking from the M train, but sweet around the house.
the realtor is awesome! And cute!
NOW here's the deal breaker: It's very loud along that street. No matter what you do to replace the cheesy new floors or bad kitchen, you can't make bushwick ave quiet. IT's like a highway .
Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 2:03 PM
hey 2:03 pm...the dealbreaker is that its $1MM in Bushwick...noise shmoise.
Posted by: anon at March 21, 2006 2:08 PM
Well, we do dig the tie in an ironic way, though it's unclear if that's how it's being worn...
Posted by: Brownstoner at March 21, 2006 2:21 PM
Maybe some day someone will buy Cook's mansion and restore it to its former glory.
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/STREET%20SCENES/bushwick/bushwick.html
Posted by: BS Dave at March 21, 2006 2:31 PM
electricgeek.
styles change over time. The adaptations that you make to your apt. will no doubt be considered cheesy a decade from now. Popcorn ceilings, carpeting and linoleum floors were the rave a couple years back. Hardwood floors were out. Now their back. I hate popcorn ceilings...really dated. But my nephew, who is 12 years old, think that its really 'cool'. So I wouldn't be surprised if it comes back in fashion 10 years from now. Have a little respect for the people that you're "pushing out".
Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 2:37 PM
i'll respect them as soon as they respect others and the neighborhood they helped destroy . like it or not it's people like myself and my tenants that help bring a neighborhood back .
why does bushwick have such a bad name? could it be the fire hydrent on the corner? NO . could it be the the fence on the next guys house? NO. oh i know ! it's the pot hole in the street right? NOT ! face it the long time residents have made bushwick the mess that it is now . like it or not it's the truth . PEOPLE make neighborhoods bad .
Posted by: electricgreek1 at March 21, 2006 2:46 PM
Social issues are more complex than that. Everything is not as black and white as you would assume. You're right but you're also wrong.
I hope you don't live in Bushwick with that type of attitude; otherwise, your 'education' awaits you.
Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 3:07 PM
Who owns Cook's Mansion?
Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 3:28 PM
looks like Madison Home Equities, Inc.
Posted by: electricgreek1 at March 21, 2006 3:35 PM
Turns out that our beloved Dr. Cook was a bit of an unseemly character, not to mention a racist:
http://www.pearyhenson.org/dr_frederick_cook/fredlog.htm
(would he classify as a long-time resident?)
Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 3:41 PM
social issues my ass..
bottom line is the long time bushwick residents wrecked bushwick . that's the bottom line
take shan ..(cambridge reno guy) . he bought a wreck of a house that would of fallen down in a few yrs for over 1 mil . why did that cost him 1 mil ? because of the neighborhood , better class of people .this house might not be in prestine condition or have the best reno job but . it's in much condition than shan's. and on a wider lot with a garage . if bushwick resident's remain the same the neighborhood will never reach it's full potential
Posted by: electricgreek1 at March 21, 2006 3:47 PM
Happy Trails, electricgreek1. If you want to be a cowboy, the wild wild west awaits you. Not to worry, if you live in bushwick and survive the incubation period that is necessary for full-blown gentrification, the neighborhood will be restored to its former grandeur, racists and all.
Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 3:51 PM
I was hoping that the broker's "rockin'" tie would be one of those piano keyboard ties. lol
I don't want to get into the class of people discussion above, but popcorn ceilings and linoleum were not "all the rave" a couple of years back!
Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 3:56 PM
a couple of 'decades' back maybe
Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 3:58 PM
Class and race issues will always be a boiling cauldron in Brooklyn. It's unavoidable when people from different walks of life collide. Unfortunately, there are those, by nature of their attitudes, resist living in harmony with the long-time residents or with the newcomers. Its an interesting experiment. But it also has the potential to 'blow up' if done incorrectly.
Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 4:05 PM
popcorn ceilings are out?
Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 4:16 PM
Speaking of Bushwick and the way it came to suffer over the last 30 years, you folks should read "Ladies and Gentleman, The Bronx is Burning: 1977, Baseball, Politics and the Battle for the Soul of the City" by Jonathan Mahler. It's all about NYC in 1977 - it covers a lot of different events, personalities, etc. but does a great job describing the blackout and how the neighborhood of Bushwick suffered the most. You can really see that a number of factors contributed to the downfall of Bushwick - most notably, the city's fiscal crisis.
Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 4:26 PM
Electricgeek, anon 3:07 is correct, these issues are more complex than just black and white - you versus them. The above poster is also correct, you need to know the recent history of Bushwick in order to understand what has gone on there. The blackout of 1977 did a number on the neighborhood which is only now beginning to rise from the literal ashes.
You may also need to develop some empathy for people, some of whom are desperately poor, in situations you can't even imagine living in. Add to that a sizable population who can't speak a word of English, and whose employment possibilites are extremely limited, as they are for many of the rest of Bushwick's poor. Places like Bushwick and Brownsville have not been on the city's radar in thirty years, and frankly, it's only the recent influx of people such as yourself and your tenants, that has improved anything much at all.
While poverty is not in itself an excuse for garbage in the streets, or trashing a building, it does rob the spirits of too many people. As someone mentioned in a recent similar thread about Bushwick, it's hard to muster up too much care about your surroundings when you are fighting to put food in your and your children's mouths. Add to that the soul numbing power of substandard, yet overpriced housing, absentee landlords, little or no city services and rats and roaches, and little hope for improvement - well, let's see how civic minded most of us would be in those situations.
Of course that is a simplification, and is not the situation of everyone in Bushwick. And I am not so naive that I don't know that as in all places - you got your creeps, predators and a@@holes. Kudos to you and your tenants for working on a new Bushwick. But please do your best to help bring as many of the good people who have been through the wars, with you as well. It's their neighborhood too.
Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at March 21, 2006 5:51 PM
The longtime residents are not bad, and the artists and gentrifiers who move in are not bad either.
They are simply different groups of people who have different interests and different tastes.
However, without any value judgement, I can say that when artists and gentrifiers move in to a neighborhood, rental and property values tend to skyrocket.
Such a prime mansion in a neighborhood where this has clearly already started happening could be a good buy and a great long-term investment. Can you even imagine how much this house would be worth on the Northside of Williamsburg? Or in SoHo or TriBeCa?
Posted by: veggieburger at March 21, 2006 6:11 PM
Thanks CHP. I'm the person who works at the non-profit Make the Road in Bushwick from the earlier thread and your comments are right on.
Electricgreek, you gotta find a little empathy in your soul! You may not see it this way, but the neighbors you dislike so much have suffered through a tremendous amount in the last 30 years. Did you know that the large housing project Hope Gardens, which goes on for BLOCKS and BLOCKS in Bushwick, was new housing constructed after the blackout? Yes, that whole area was burnt to the ground...quite astounding. And very little attention was paid to Bushwick until very recently.
Bushwick High School is finally closing--it had been one of the worst in the city--and is being replaced with small high schools. So many of your neighbors have crappy housing, failing schools, and no jobs or sweatshop jobs--their priorities and life experiences are probably not the same as yours.
Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 6:12 PM
I grew in Bushwick and lived there pre and post the blackout. It was like Katrina in Brooklyn. Few houses and families survived.
Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 6:36 PM
And as for people who don't speak English, try these examples:
"he bought a wreck of a house that would of fallen down in a few yrs for over 1 mil"
"if bushwick resident's remain the same the neighborhood will never reach it's full potential"
These aren't typos, I fear, just simple illiteracy...
Posted by: babs at March 21, 2006 6:39 PM
Can you imagine how much this house would be worth in Tribeca? Are you kidding? What if it were on the top of the Empire State Building? How about if it floated around on the Staten Island Ferry? What if it were at home plate in Yankee Stadium? Imgagine the price then? It's a bargain at 10 million dollars!
Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 7:45 PM
About the tie...If that excites you, you need to start hanging out with more creative people instead of that Wall St crowd.
Posted by: anon at March 21, 2006 7:52 PM
I can confirm the kid has style.
Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 8:02 PM
Anon 7:45,
All I am saying is that the same thing is happening in Bushwick that happened in those other neighborhoods. Prime houses like this one tend to appreciate at a higher rate than smaller, uglier ones, as a neighborhood gentrifies. Buying a house like this so early is very astute.
Posted by: veggieburger at March 21, 2006 8:07 PM
I never understand why every discussion has to have all of those nasty racial innuendoes and comments. As far as I'm concerned just because electricgreek1 decided to live in Bushwick he has a lot of nerve complaining about the other residents of a neighborhood that has a long hard history. People like him cannot develop empathy- they don't want to. I'm out of patience with people like him- they claim to be brutally honest so they can vent their worst traits. They blather on about market values, gentrification, amenities, changing neighborhoods so they can disguise what they're really saying- and we all know what that is.
By the way electricgreek1- a "better class of people" doesn't mutilate english like you do, and I quote "this house might not be in prestine condition or have the best reno job but . it's in much condition than shan's. and on a wider lot with a garage . if bushwick resident's remain the same the neighborhood will never reach it's full potential."
I would take your social commentary a little more seriously if you could express it with some degree of literacy. Just being honest- how do you like it?
Posted by: Bx2Bklyn at March 22, 2006 12:25 AM
I don't think it's astute to buy this now, veggieburger, nor would it be "buying early." Not for over a million dollars. "Astute" and "buying early" are the people who paid 300K for a fixer upper in Fort Greene or Clinton Hill.
Face it, the real "pioneers" of neighborhoods, who could see future value or just had to live somewhere because it's cheap, paid nowhere near one million for a fixer upper. You're looking at many many years for Bushwick to reach levels that certain Brooklyn neighborhoods have, and even in those 'hoods, there are tons of comments around here about houses in better condition than this one being "overpriced" when they're only slightly more expensive than this one and in areas that are already much better. No, buying this place for one million would not be astute but it would make you a giant sucker. Bid 300K and make a go of it, but don't invest a million dollars in this house.
Posted by: Anon at March 22, 2006 9:42 AM
You can get a gorgeous woodframe in Ditmas Park vicinity, a much more stable area, for a million bucks or a bit more, but worth it if you ask me
Posted by: Anonymous at March 22, 2006 9:47 AM
i have driven by this place on numerous occassions and wondered what it was like on the inside. i am sure the place will require tons of work to get it up to speed. the asking price of 1 million is too greedy i think - even though the property has amazing potential.
Posted by: bushwicker at March 22, 2006 11:44 AM
give elecricgreek1 a break. he/she is just a racist 'republican values' leaning moron with no soul. Nothing to see here. Move along.
Posted by: Anonymous at March 22, 2006 1:26 PM
i think he's learned the error of his ways. he has yet to issue a rebuttal, which in this case, is a good thing.
Posted by: ltjbukem at March 22, 2006 3:36 PM
1:26:
So, anyone who votes Republican is a "racist...moron...with no soul". A bit harsh, judgemental, and hypocritical, dontcha think? (And I voted Kerry, btw...)
Posted by: Wallis at March 22, 2006 3:40 PM
I drive by that house every day on my way to woodhull and would not give you a nickel for it
Posted by: Anonymous at March 22, 2006 11:02 PM
Someone brought this up recently and and I think it is a good point: people on this site rarely talk about public schools when discussing the desirabiltiy of neighborhoods and values of houses. For many people with kids who can't afford private school, this is a prime factor, not how intact the orignal details of a house are. I remember driving through Clinton Hill and thinking, "Wow, great housing stock. We should move here." But then I've talked to people who live there and the school system sucks. Same with Prospect Hgts. I know people who've moved out of that neighborhood, though they loved it, because they needed to be in a better school district. I moved to the back end of Windsor Terrace, land of vinyl siding , because of the school -- and proximity to the Prospect Park.
Posted by: anonymous at March 23, 2006 10:06 PM
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