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March 1, 2006

House of the Day: Mucho Moderne in ProHo

house
This listing is interesting for a couple of reasons. First, it's a rare example of what appears to be a successful modern renovation of a brownstone interior by a flipper: The space is clean, light and lofty. Second, the building has been condo'd which makes for an interesting financial analysis. At first it didn't make sense to us: The flipper bought the building for $1.3 million in September 2004. and now has the upper triplex on the market for $1.36 million. Assuming his renovation costs must have been at least $500,000 and carrying costs another $100,000, we didn't see how he was making any money. Then we realized that he must have added another floor with a set-back (hence the pitched roof in the photo), giving him a total of five floors and a projected cumulative gross sales price of, say, $2.3 million to $2.4 million. In this case, basically, he breaks even on four floors and puts the fifth floor proceeds into his pocket at profit. That's how the game is being played now.
582 Pacific Street [Halstead] GMAP P*Shark

Comments

'Stoner, I think you're right about the add'l floor. The floor plan shows a "front terrace" on the top floor. Nice place.

Posted by: Hal at March 1, 2006 11:51 AM

One problem. If the Ratner project ever goes through you're living across the street from a sixty story skyscraper where the Modells store is now.

Posted by: Puca at March 1, 2006 11:52 AM

me no like

Posted by: Anonymous at March 1, 2006 12:02 PM

Love it. A definite model of how to do a modern renovation. But the location is not appealing at all. And, yes, you're definitely right--they added a floor and made the top duplex into a triplex.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 1, 2006 12:08 PM

Perhaps not the right location for many, but it is for some. After all, isn't there a high rise condo tower going up right smack in the middle (or thereabouts) of Times Square?

Posted by: Hal at March 1, 2006 12:08 PM

What does ProHo stand for?

Posted by: Anonymous at March 1, 2006 12:13 PM

I wouldn't live in Times Square either.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 1, 2006 12:16 PM

Interesting. If you look at the floorplan, was a rear extension added as well?

Posted by: Anonymous at March 1, 2006 12:26 PM

i give money to dddB, but let's not mourne the potential passing of the modell's and pc richards. that no-window, stucco piece of crap (which ratner built!) can rest in hell. anything replacing it will be an improvement.

and let's be honest, the skyscraper that's going to replace that modell's is supposed to be a hotel, which will mean ground floor retail.

AND it's going to be north of the location, so it won't block sun. if anything, it'll reflect light into the northern side of your place. along with all the titanium. ;)

great location, beautiful renovation. too bad the price is so high.

Posted by: chuck at March 1, 2006 12:43 PM

This is really in Park Slope -- albeit a not very desirable part of the slope -- since Prospect Heights ends at Flatbush Ave and Boerum Hill is west of 4th Ave. And it's the slightly odd location that's the biggest drawback. Not only the possible Atlantic Yards development, which as Puca points out, will involve the demolition of Modells and PC Richards and the construction of a very tall tower in their place, but -- even w/o that project -- it's just not the nicest block, bound as it is on three sides by Flatbush, 4th Ave and Atlantic. Also the kitchen looks like it's just been thrown into a convenient corner. I hate it when the design isn't truly integrated with the space it inhabits.

Posted by: Anon at March 1, 2006 12:47 PM

Reminds me of the Florentine condos on 7th between 3rd and 4th (although this looks much more attractive). In my opinion there is one issue to this place, same as with those condos -- to get to your kitchen you need to go up 2 flights of stairs, to get to your bedroom it's 3 flights of stairs and to get to your rec room upstairs it's 4 flights of stairs -- all completely untenable if you have kids, which you would have to have to need a place this large. So for me, even though I really like this place (I even don't mind the location so much), I would not even go see it. This would have to be in the $800,000 range before I even took a look -- someone has to pay me for all the inconvenience.

Posted by: Anon at March 1, 2006 12:57 PM

I agree with the comments on the kitchen being tossed in a corner, but the complaints about the number of stairs seems ridiculous. The apartemnt is one flight up, not two (unless you're counting the stoop, which is absurd). Once you're in it, the rec room is on the thrid floor--which personally is perfect. The kids can play noisy games and watch TV without disturbing adults in the living room.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 1, 2006 1:26 PM

Hasn't this been on the market for a long time? I seem to recall a posting about in on Curbed awhile ago? I'll answer my own question - indeed it was... just looked and it was posted there back beginning of January:

http://www.curbed.com/archives/2006/01/06/
open_house_3pack_three_in_the_low_sevens.php

Posted by: Anonymous at March 1, 2006 1:57 PM

Without a doubt in Park Slope...South of Flatbush...East of 4th Ave.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 1, 2006 2:02 PM

another example of anal-retentive folks worrying about what 'neighborhood' it is in. A few yards one way or the other and you have 4 or 5 choices.
Obviously very convenient to lots of transportation and walking distance to BAM, Pk Slope restaurants, Target, and much more -- just a bit noisey and traffic congested and not your brownstone tree-lined family block.
And I don't know what kind of corners you folks have in your houses but that kichen area seems quite substantial (6.5' x 15' L-shape) in size to me. What is it you prefer---full view of fridge from living room sofa?

Posted by: Anonymous at March 1, 2006 3:11 PM

I didn't realize that Rachel Weiss was not only a Golden Globe winning actress but also an agent for Halstead... ;)

Posted by: lp at March 1, 2006 3:25 PM

I live on this block and the real story is that, this building was sold as two separate condos, each triplexes, both for 1.2 million last spring. The guy who owns the top triplex is now trying to sell after less than a year. He was not the person who bought and renovated this former crack house.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 1, 2006 3:43 PM

I saw the place at the beginning of January. It's actually quite nice and very centrally located. I was quite concerned about the inevitable construction across the street with accompanying noise (and resultant blocking of views all the way to the Empire State building). The renovation wasn't bad, although I would have sprung for a nicer kitchen with nicer appliances, therby justifying the asking price. There's a new woodburning fireplace and nice outdoor space facing south. I believe the lower triplex sold in October for 1.3 million. And it's the same Rachel Weiss (how many times a day does she hear this joke?).

Posted by: PPSer at March 1, 2006 4:04 PM

Eureka! The truth is revealed.

Posted by: Brownstoner at March 1, 2006 4:05 PM

Not for nothing, but I believe the actress is Rachel Weitz, while the real estate broker is Rachel Weiss.

Now back to your scheduled program...

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at March 1, 2006 4:39 PM

Two triplexes? I don't get it. Even with the top floor as a setback, I count 5 floors, unless the bottom floor for the bottom triplex is entirely below ground.

Posted by: linusvanpelt at March 1, 2006 4:44 PM

I along with my partner Emily Fisher are the developers of this piece of property. We are not flippers but community sensitive developers. The Idea for this project was started on 584 Pacific Street right next door. Our Idea was within the zoning to develop a browstone as a two family condominium. The result is that there is close to twenty five hundred square feet in each apartment. The cellar and the attic do not do not count in FAR. The cellar has a large well that lets in a lot of light and gives access to the back yard. Although the bottom apartment has the yard on both buildings we put as many decks and terraces as we could. The space was to be divided so that there were two floor through parlors (public space) stacked on each other. This meant that the sleeping areas are two floors apart. The kitchen's are put in the corners in order to maximize the loft like feel of the public areas. We carefully kept and restored the townhouse feeling of the stoop and the cornices and porticos. These buildings had origionaly been SRO's and had been boarded up for at least 8 years before we got then out of their legal trouble. We started with 584 and someone else got 582. When we were finishing 584 the person who had already gut renovated 582 and added the extension, then flipped it to us because his plan of making a youth hostel was not economicly viable. We did not want to pay as much as we did but since the extension was already built and a fair amount of the work involved was done, we thought we could make a go of it. There were a fair amount of problems with the construction that the previous owner had done that did add cost. Then we started to design to find the right balance in order to make two very attractive apartments. There are few people that see the apartments that do not love the apartments, the pictures look nice but do not fully illustrate the thoughtfull design and layouts. The bottom apartment at 582 we sold to someone who missed out on an apartment at 584. We customized their kitchen and made some changes for them and thy closed in the fall. The other apartment we kept working on and had on the market since then. My partner and I live in Beorum Hill Brooklyn since 1993 when I bought my townhouse, we have two daughters. We designed out of our frustraions with the limitations of Brooklyn townhouses. We thought that our idea was right for the time and the market. It has proven to be a successful venture.
When we started What Ratner might do was a vague notion. It has had effect on the marketability on that block to a small degree. That block of Pacific Street used to be a wreck. Now there is a strong block association and many good people who live there in condos and coops. We plant flowers every spring with the block association in all the tree pits. It may have been edgy once but now it is a lovely neighborhood with lots of people that are fighting to keep it that way. Location wise it is at the intersection of lots of great neighborhoods, with access to all trains and the L.I.R.R.
We are currently developing other sites such as the corner of Nevins and Pacific which has been derelict since a fire over twenty years ago. We are making two townhouse condos there more side by side than stacked as it is on a corner. We also are puting apartments above Hank's Bar on the opposite corner of Atlantic and Third. I assure you that we are part of the community we build in and have no intention of flipping anything. We do complete new construction within the shells that exist which brings added value. Our work is not cosmetic. We also strive to develop green building practices and are developing a new green standard for brownstone Brooklyn. We are trying as hard as it may be (economicly) to be quality builders of family homes over junky constructers of paste up buildings. We also strive to be responsive to the market and develop a long term clientel interested in what we have to offer. We will hopefully be able to do more projects such as the ones at 582 & 584 Pacific streets and make the fair profit we are as we go. Rolf Grimsted R&E Brooklyn, Inc.

Posted by: rolf grimsted at March 1, 2006 4:54 PM

Sorry about the double posting I got confused by the failure message- Rolf

Posted by: Rolf Grimsted at March 1, 2006 5:00 PM

Thanks so much, Rolf, for sharing all that. We know it ain't easy having one's hard work dissected on the Internet. We applaud your motives and the outcome. Good luck on future projects--we'd love to hear how they are progressing.

Posted by: Brownstoner at March 1, 2006 5:01 PM

The word flipper is used in a slanderous uninformed way. Be carefull. It tilted the conversation from important issues of development and its community context downward towards cynical incomprehension. Rolf Grimsted

Posted by: Rolf Grimsted at March 1, 2006 5:30 PM

At long last some sensible commentary from someone ACTUALLY INVOLVED...not a bunch of armchair developers who have never had a dime of real risk...its a lesson to everyone who slings stuff around on this board with no real knowledge...b'stoner you should post Rolf's commentary on your front page...

Posted by: Anonymous at March 1, 2006 5:55 PM

Rolf:

I think that you should be using the Corcoran Group sell your listings, not Halstead. Of course, I am an agent at Corcoran, so....

They really are lovely.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 1, 2006 8:30 PM

Dear Rolf, I think you did a beautiful job. Congratulations.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 1, 2006 8:35 PM

Yes, thanks Rolf for your very informative and thoughtful response. I admire your courage, community commitment and ability to transform thoughts, ideas and words into concrete action and, more importantly, tangible results.

On another note, contrary to the above comment from Anon, bloggers on this site are not a bunch of "armchair developers" or simply lack "real knowledge". Brownstoner contributors are extremely informed and typically provide thoughtful, relevant and constructive commentary with respect to some of the pertinent issues discussed on these boards.

Moreover, we are active members of the Brooklyn brownstone community and our personal and professional backgrounds run the entire gamut: from home owners, renters, investors, brokers, flippers, mortgage finance professionals, to developers (yes, developers). In short, we are indeed informed and more often than not the nail gets hit right on the head.

Posted by: BrownBomber at March 1, 2006 8:43 PM

The word "flipper" has taken on a pejorative meaning for a reason--because the large majority of people who flip properties do not take the kind of care in renovating or reaching out to the community that owners who plan to inhabit a building do. We think it was pretty clear that we were highlighting this as an EXCEPTION to that connotation so no need to stay so high on that horse.

Posted by: Brownstoner at March 1, 2006 9:53 PM

Sorry, but I don't understand Rolf's long defense at all. I thought I was a pretty smart guy. I went to a top college and everything.

Seems to me like a lot of fancy words strung together without meaning.

By the way, the modern renovation photos look very nice to me.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2006 2:43 AM

Is the "attic" that "doesn't count" in the FAR legal or illegal? Is it a code violation?

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2006 8:28 AM

I live close to Rolf's new development on Pacific and Nevins. I am excited. It is going to be remarkable. If all developers in Brooklyn had the same sense for aesthetics, integrety and loyalty to old structures, Brownstone Brooklyn would be a hell of a lot nicer than it is. Just think about how many of those horrible new developments you see all over, which we spend time lamenting and protesting on this blog. I salute Rolf for the work that he is doing!! (And wish others would get it...)

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2006 12:49 PM

Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2006 12:52 PM

An attic at the time was considered as of right. There were abuses that occurred in certain boros so they have cut back and are now disallowing an open staircase. It is possible as we did to carry Far up to make combine space. We had to cut some far from the downstairs apartment. The short answer is that there used to be more wiggle room and the angled roofs are prohibitive. They are interpreting the code more tightly so it is difficult as with many things DOB to say. We were very careful to stay within all aspects of the code. The usage for an attic is like a cellar storage and rec room. Legal if you follow the tight perameters of the current code interretation. Our interetaion after modification was approved. Rolf

Posted by: r.grimsted at March 2, 2006 1:53 PM

« 15th Street FAR Play Closes Well Under Ask Wednesday Photo of the Day »

March 1, 2006

House of the Day: Mucho Moderne in ProHo

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