Open House Picks

The Corcoran listing on Baltic is on a harrowingly ugly block...

A bit of exageration on the ugliness - (unless naysayer is in the $2m+ market and can afford other side of Court St)- just across from school yard and houses directly across schoolyard on Butler have sold in this range. The last couple houses closest to Smith could use some work though.
Pics of inside look nice.

Victorian Flatbush house is on corner of Rugby and Ditmas Ave. Very nice. There was a huge fire at that house a while ago. As resident of Rugby Rd we all watched anxiously to see what would happen with it. We are grateful that it was restored and not torn down. In fact the outside looks better then it did before the fire....I believe it had asbestos siding.

The victorian is in Ditmas Park West specifically.

House on 21st has an open violation- wonder if they intend to amend that before the closing! If they had a large fire, shouldn't they have filed some permits with DOB?

You guys are confusing me between the victorian and the house listed above as Victorian Flatbush! The "victorian" which had the fire is on Rugby Road. Looks nice, but a bit Home Depot in the kitchen. When did these houses get so over-priced? 1.9 strikes me as absurd for the area. And this one isn't even large--only 3,300 square feet.

The Madison Street house looks totally unappealing--tacky fake flooring and a poor sheetrock renovation. For 850,000? Again, that seems absurd.

12:37: The 21st street house is similar to a row of houses on Rutland road. The one you refer to is on the corner of Rutland and Bedford. One of the houses in the row has been sitting on the market since las summer I think at 950,000 (BHS) and another in a similar row on Rutland recently sold for 830,000.

The house on 21st is not the house with the large fire. Large fire was in Mary Kay's listing. Victorian Flatbush's listing has the violation

I agree. The highest price I was aware of was 1.4 and this house, while "like new," lost all of its moldings and details. Asking 1.9 is Crazy Talk!

Rugby Road house is nicely done reno from fire. My only regret is the choice that the contractor made on the windows- bad fake divided lights. Looks sorta cheap. Odd considering that most of the houses in Vic. Flatbush don't have divided light windows. Anyway, the systems are all brand new, including heat and central air. It's on the corner at Rugby at Ditmas- DItmas can be sort of trafficky. 1.9 is asking alot, goes without saying- Crouchback, I think you will find most prices are still in the range you quote. My guess is the builder is maxing it out because of all new everything- as if that's a good enough reason.

East 21st street is definitely intriguing. Albemarle-Kenmore is a little bit detached from the rest of Vic. Flatbush, but the block is nice and the house looks good as well. Those places don't come on the market that frequently.

RE East 21st street-- what are those apartment buildings across the sreet like?

There may be nothing like a big OLD victorian, but there is nothing old about this one but the framing. Looks like a suburban development house--without the land.

The house on Rugby is huge....I pass it everyday....and the windows are wrong....I agree. And I don't like the porch railing...definitely home depot railings.

Suburban? Surely you jest. I concede that the house is not perfect, but try to keep things in perspective. In order to cast a serious shadow on this wonderful home, you must focus on something more serious than window frames or porch railings. I mean really!

Sheet rock walls, no moldings, cheap new wood floors, tacky kitchen cabinets. Hence "suburban development." Not just suburban--there are zillions of fabulous homes like this, but with their original details in tact, in the burbs.

Sorry, but I see nothing appealing about the interior of this house.

I believe the operative phrase here is \'in the burbs\'. This baby is in Brooklyn.

Love Brooklyn, but please. It ain't worth an extra 600,000--certainly not when you're talking about Ditmas West. Not by a long shot.

I have been in teh Rugby Road house and spoken with the developer. I am NOT a RE estate developer. I am a Victorian Flatbush resident who was very pleased that the house was restored and shingled. I agree a better choice could have been made for the windows and the the door has got to go. THe railing is tacky and PREDATES the renovation, by the way. Inside there is SOME detail, including nice parquet floor decorative inlay, but alot else is gone. The house is not for the purist, BUT, as someone who lives in 100 year old wood frame house and has had to deal with replacing systems, there is a lot to be said for moving into a period home that is clean, in perfect working condition, and has maximized space - the basement renovation is excellent. Tile throughout. This house is perfect for a busy family that wants space and little work. The interior is not cheap and unattractive (I have seen plenty of cheap flips in the nabe over the years, including by this developer). This is a huge step up. It may not be custom or to a purist's taste, but for someone who doesn't want to live through the work and wants a beautiful, finished home for a large family - grab it while you can. Ditmas Ave is a little busy, but hardly 7th Ave. Also, it was the premier street of Ditmas Park when it was built and has fabulous homes for the most part. Only real problem for me with this house is it's a corner lot, and with almost all corner lots in VF, it doesnt have much of a yard... THis house does NOT suck. It is actually quite nice, for the right person. I have actually been in it twice. Have you?

The bottom line is that no house in Ditmas West is worth anywhere near 1.9. The merits or lack thereof of this house obviously depend on the individual. But I hope whoevr buys has the sense to wait till the price drops to something reasonable.

Ah, irrational exuberance, how sweet it is...for now. Personnally I'm condsidering following in many of friend's footsteps and selling my place in the Slope (for more than 2M I hope) and buying something outsde of the city for about 1M. That way I'll be able to enjoy a better quality of life than inner Bklyn affords, save all that money on private school, and when the boom busts I won't have lost everything.

As for Ditmas, if you need a car to get places there is no point in suffering city life.

I am the poster who has been in the Ditmas West house (slightly overpriced, but not too much - also it is a HUGE house, as huge as some along Albermarle Road).

I also know Albermarle/Kenmore Terrace very well. This house is attractive in the picture, but it is not one of the super cute landmarked homes that the two short blocks are knows for. It is either a corner house, or just oppostite the two super beautiful period blocks. The houses here have the benefit of a great view of the former Flatbush Dutch Reformed Church parsonage and cemetary, not far from the Q station, but really in a very busting part of Flatbush (although this stretch was once lined with some of the most gorgeous homes in all of Victorian Flatbush many moons ago, not to mention exclusive Melrose Park and Tennis Court). It therefore is a tiny oasis of tranquility in a busting area and not in one of the larger, tree lined tranquil streets in Vic Flatbush. It is also not close to the more upmarket amenities springing up on Courtelyou Road (note the new streetscape is starting construction in April - a big plus for the pnabe). Brown Harris Stevens had another house, an actual landmark house with integral garage (this was one of the big perks of this developement, modelled after English examples such as Hampstead Garden Suburb in London). It was in pristine condition (gorgeous beamed ceilings) and sold for aroun $750. It was a great house for the price and whoever bought it was lucky as they rarely come on the market. But these houses are not huge. They were constructed several decades later than Victorian Flatbush homes. This house currently on the market does not have the same sort of charm, is not nestled among the other landmark worthy homes, but is certainly larger. Those are the facts as I see them, for what they're worth.

http://www.forgotten-ny.com/Alleys/midbrooklyn/midbrook.html

Scroll halfway down and there are some good pix of Albemarle/Kenmore Terraces. I stand corrected in that there are a few houses of this type on Albemarle Terrace, but I still think the other houses with the pitched roofs are the special ones.

Please note that me "l" key was sticking on the above post. I meant bustling, not busting, Flatbush.

I live on Rugby and rarely use my car. Ditmas Park West is a great place to live. Our block is bustling with children playing. We actually do sit on our porches and talk with our neighbors, watch the fireflies in summer and leaves change in autumn. I am around the corner from shops and the subway. To me that is worth quite a lot.

Anon at 8:19. Thanks for clearning that up. Yes, I am talking about the exterior, which of course isn't at all bad, but I just think the other cottage-style houses that sold on Albemarle are much more attractive. I did not know that the interiors were all different. I just assumed that the houses that looked alike had the same interiors. Interesting to know. I have never had the oppportunity to go inside on of those houses. I keep wishing one would pop up on the Flatbush House Tour. Do the houses on Albemarle have parking at all? Also, since the address is East 21st St for the house above, then it must be on the corner then, no? Otherwise the address would be Albemarle Terrace?

Also, how come Brown Harris Stevens, who otherwise have no presence in Victorian Flatbush, manages to snag all the Albemarle/Kenmore Terrace houses...

why are the Abermarle Terrce houses cheaper than similar ones in Lefferts Manor? The nabe seems bettter if anything--closer to stores, restaurants, and less serious poverty around the corner. What am I missing?

The Rugby Road house is 3,300 square feet--far smaller than a standard Brownstone and not at all "huge." The East 21st street house is 3,000 square feet, almost as large.

And I agree that the East 21st street house seems much more appealing than houses in Lefferts going for 200,000 more. This price seems right for the area, but I have no idea why the Lefferts houses are more expensive...

I don't know where you get your information from re: the Rugby Road house being 3300 square feet. It is much larger than a standard brownstone....go to the open house tomorrow and report again. I have seen that house and it is much bigger than a standard brownstone.

The 3,300 square footage figue comes from Property Shark. A standard Brownstone (20X50) is 4,000.

We looked at several houses in ditmas and west ditmas before finding a house that we bought in Lefferts Manor. The ditmas houses are very appealing from the outside, but I kept feeling diappointed by the interiors. They were either stripped of detail, or seemed much smaller inside because of the way rooms were laid out. The maintenance issue with wood structures also scared us away, not to mention the fear of heating bills with four exposed walls and all those windows. We've been in our new house for a couple of months and have been pleasantly surprised by the Lefferts Manor neighborhood. Can anyone who lives in one of the ditmas houses share with us how expensive these houses turn out to be to heat?

A wood structure isn\'t necessarily expensive to heat, so long as it\'s well insulated. Of course, there are \"all those windows\", but most people like the windows and all the exposed sides, even if they do translate into larger heating costs.

I own in Ditmas Park West ...a 3 story
wood frame with some new windows, some old and partial newly blown in insulation. To date this year my oil heat bill is $2174.00. We belong to NYPIRG oil co-op and are paying what we paid last $1.99.

I was choosing between Lefferts and Ditmas a few years ago, and while there is restoration work to do on a lot of the Ditmas interiors, Victorian Flatbush just felt much more like a large, sprawling neighborhood (3500 freestanding houses stretching from Caton to Avenue H...), as opposed to a tiny, albeit charming oasis surrounded by large, looming, apartment buildings, poor shopping, and (dare I say it), even more alarming safety issues. By the way, my 2700 house cost a little over $2000 to heat last year. We did install a new boiler and hot water tank. We have original windows which I will not replace until we can budged for wood. Ditmas is a lifestyle. You have to be the right type. Sometimes people just aren't cut out for preserving older woodframe houses and they split. And I have nothing againt those who give it there all, cash out and retire from it for awhile (usually they head up to a serious old house in the country, although smaller, and I do know two cases that have hightailed it to coops. Even I, a Manhattan girl, miss my super every now and then). But having said that, nothing feels better (to me) than being able to feel I have the room for the large family I have always wanted, to be able to give all 4 children their own bedrooms, a playroom, still have a "room of my own", and still be able to walk one block to the grocery store and see the comfort of the subway from my bedroom window. It's the right choice for us, and others, but not everyone, and I don't begrudge them that.

OH, yes, did I mention a guestroom and an office? And when we bought the price was right, so we don't need a tenant to swing it and therefore have full owner occupancy of the home. We are lucky, and I know it. I wish everyone could have had the breaks we have. I wish everyone out there could be so lucky. Houses did not cost 1.9 when we were looking, although I would have paid several hundred thousand more for a house that needed less work.

Bob Marvin--my question about LM prices versus Abermarle Terrace was actually about the 2 rows of brick houses on Rutland between Flatbush and Bedford, not the Midwood street ones (although you're right that those are even more similar, and I didn't realize they had the same architect). The Rutland road ones appear to be of a similar vintage and style--and one just off of Bedford is on the market for 950,000. But I suppose the answer is the same--name recognition. Personally, as a nervous white guy, I find the congestion of lower Flatbush less threatening than the stretch in LM, But that's me. Thanks for answering!

I don't really buy the "location" argument. Lefferts Manor is all of 6-8 blocks, not "many, many" and the apartment buildings surrounding Albermarle Terrace seem much more stable and middle-income than those on Flatbush in PLG. Yes, the E 21st house is 3 long blocks from the park, but those blocks are nowhere near as intimidating as Flatbush and Lincoln, which one has to cross to get out of LM. And it is close to decent stores and cafes on Courtelyou. But I will grant you that there isn't as much of a sense of being in an enclave as there is in LM. However, that doesn't add up to a 200,000 dollar difference.

Gardens Gal: I had no intention of startng a debate on PLG. Just trying to figure out the price difference in two similar houses on the market in similar areas a stones throw from each other. The intimadation factor is obviously totally personal. We all have our own comfort levels. On that note, good night to all.

You have to be careful about updating the windows. This is a landmard on the NATIONAL REGISTER.