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January 17, 2006

New! Straight From The Architect's Mouth

kitchen kitchen
The program for this Park Slope brownstone’s kitchen came from a common lament: everyone likes an open kitchen, but no one wants guests looking at their dirty dishes. This family has young boys, so for supervision alone, they needed a wide opening between the kitchen and dining room, but since the kitchen is squeezed into the little single-window room, we couldn’t sacrifice an inch of counter space. Our solution was to extend the base cabinets halfway into our new double-wide door opening. We based our design for the ribbed-glass and walnut double doors on doors found elsewhere in the house. When closed, the doors look original, but one of them slides into a pocket and the other hinges ninety degrees to allow them to open fully in the tight space. This unorthodox configuration also lets you bolt the slider closed for more formal occasions (that’s why the glass stops above counter height.), while servers come and go through the hinged door. The ribbed glass lets light through but keeps the kitchen private. At dinner parties, the kitchen glows like a lantern.
DELSON or SHERMAN architects pc is a licensed architecture firm with a broad range of experience in residential, commercial, and institutional design. Based in Brooklyn, they have built projects around the country, combining clean, understated design with careful space planning.
Park Slope Brownstone [Delson Sherman]

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Comments

Love it!

Posted by: Kel at January 17, 2006 10:28 AM

Can you tell us what the budget on the kitchen job was?

Posted by: Anonymous at January 17, 2006 10:53 AM

Way too modern. Looks like they really raped alot of brownstones on their website. Kind of look like "Clockwork Orange" or "Sleeper" apartments and houses. YUK! Give me restoration anyday!

Posted by: Anonymous at January 17, 2006 10:59 AM

pretty, but I hate to take down a plaster wall for a drywall,
pocket door.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 17, 2006 11:10 AM

Great new feature - thanks brownstoner! The poster above is a bit harsh - I don't think this looks out of place at all with a traditional brownstone layout and detail. And keep in mind that there may not have been a lot of original detail left in the house to begin with. Our house is particularly narrow and I'm always curious to see what others have done with the old b'stone template.

Posted by: petunia at January 17, 2006 11:10 AM

We don't think this is too modern at all and there was clearly a lot of respect for existing historic details.

Posted by: Brownstoner at January 17, 2006 11:20 AM

Nice job.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 17, 2006 11:26 AM

My wife and I have found that it's not all that easy living a 21st century life in a 19th century house if we insist on keeping every detail authentic.

I think this kitchen is well planned and nicely done.

Posted by: Hal at January 17, 2006 11:34 AM

I was talking about this architect's other projects on his website. You can restore a house with no details and put back what is close to original

Posted by: Anonymous at January 17, 2006 11:36 AM

I spoke with Perla about coming to our home to give us an estimate on what I thought was a major renovation (relative to my budget) after seeing this home on the Park Slope house tour summer. She would not even agree to MEET with me unless we were planning on spending $200K+. I spoke with the folks who used her after I heard that, and they didn't spend that much, but they did it b/c Perla is a good friend of the woman that lives there.

Posted by: anonymous at January 17, 2006 12:10 PM

I think the kitchen is beautiful and nicely done.

Posted by: Park Sloper at January 17, 2006 1:24 PM

Looks fabulous and very sympathetic to the original architecture of the house. Frankly 100% Victoriana gives me hives. Would be v. interested to know the dimensions of the kitchen and adjoining dining room. Would the architect be able to supply brownstoner with a simple floor plan? Anyway, great feature -- love to see more like this.

Posted by: Anon at January 17, 2006 1:27 PM

We had a very good experience with Delson or Sherman. Perla was our architect four years ago for our major renovation on a four story 20' wide Boerum Hill brownstone. I also blanched when she estimated in the $200k range for what we needed done. She ended up being right! The 2002-2003 stockmarket and employment landscape was a very edgy time to be financing a reno - but somehow we did it. I will say in spite of our temperaments being cluttery and our aesthetics 19th century, Delson Sherman did well for us. Perla listened well, picked up on our lifestyle and temperaments, and geared the whole project towards a design and project plan that was in sync with our active young children and their distracted, exhausted parents. Thanks to Perla the final result was MY house - not an architect's intellectual property! I do think in the end however she wanted to refer us for an intervention at the 'Rid the World of Pack Rats' foundation.

Posted by: Peggy O'Keefe at January 17, 2006 1:57 PM

Why is their name Delson OR Sherman? Not much of a partnership... Not bad though.

Posted by: 3:30 bored at January 17, 2006 3:21 PM

The no less than 200K thing sounds really snooty and exclusive especially for the demographic that comprises the influx of brownstone fixer-up buyers in the up + coming peripheral neighborhoods these days HOWEVER to do any decent job that requires infrastrutural upgrading (more efficient energy systems, roofing, windows etc.) let alone the aesthetic and lifestyle layout changes potentially desired (i.e. that sexy indulgent master bath or wannabe viking range)people out there have to realize that the average substantial brownstone reno (esp. the ones in bad shape)require 200K and Perla, as a business woman, is doing herself a service by declining on such projects that have "modest" budgets b/c to take a squeeze water from stone type budgets is to hemorrhage her fee in the end.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 17, 2006 4:55 PM

We used Delson and Sherman for a while and all they were concerned about was MONEY! Their taste was mediocre. After our bad experience with them, we did it ourselves and our home is quite lovely. It has even been used as a backdrop for a few high end magazines. If you have alot of money any architect can do the job--it's like being on the best dressed list.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 17, 2006 5:03 PM

Nice feature, but more pics please.

Posted by: JoshK at January 17, 2006 8:23 PM

Wow, there sure is some venom being directed against an obviously talented and interesting firm.

I'm an architect in the Slope and I'm inclined to think Anon 5:03 pm and their ilk are precisely the kind of nightmare clients everyone I know tries to avoid. Good design is usually the result of a collaboration with the client; obviously these smarties didn't need to learn anything from any person nor invest in a design process. "Any architect can do the job" -- hey, believe what you want.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 17, 2006 8:34 PM

I have no evidence to back this up but I'm inclined to believe anon 5:03pm is not being entirely honest. Odd that they don't know the name of the architect they supposedly used. Doesn't ring true to me.

Posted by: TW at January 17, 2006 8:44 PM

It might be useful to have a forum of brooklyn architects discuss this issue. A majority brownstoner readers do not seem to see the value of working with an architect and it might be useful to discuss the pros and cons.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 18, 2006 9:12 AM

Anon at 9:12 said "A majority brownstoner readers do not seem to see the value of working with an architect."

What makes you think this is true? Who did your polling? I disagree on both points. Architects are extremely helpful (I am NOT one, I just finished a renovation), and I doubt the majority of people on Brownstoner don't see the value in using one.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 18, 2006 9:30 AM

Sorry I used the word "majority". I just thought it might be a way to defuse the anger....

Posted by: Anonymous at January 18, 2006 9:37 AM

How do you pay architects? By project, by % of a project, or what? I have interviewed an architect I like for a project but he charges by the hour and I fear that could get out of hand. Any thoughts?

Posted by: Anonymous at January 18, 2006 10:13 AM

We are brownstone owners and did a major renovation with Delson or Sherman (the Boerum Hill Brownstone on their website). Unlike many poster on this site, we are totally incompetent to do anything ourselves -- all of our DIY projects are disasters. I can't even pick paint colors or caulk the tub without it looking awful. Delson or Sherman listened to what we needed and brought us designs that accomplished all of our goals in ways we weren't even considering. Their esthetic is modern, but they also respected our wishes for crown moldings and baseboards. The best thing is that they really really listen. We end up with a great mix of modern and traditional. They were very aware of costs and made lots of suggestions on how we could complete the project within our budget (which was just over $200,000)for a 2 floor near gut renovation which took about 3 months or so. They bid out the construction and acted as interface with the contractor because, as I said before, we are terrible with that stuff. They told us when to pay and when to argue. The contractor knew they were professionals and couldn't pull any tricks in either quality or cost. Using an architect is not for everyone but we couldn't have done a major renovation without one.

We worked with both Perla Delson and Jeff Sherman and would highly recommend them both. As for snootiness, we never saw that. There is no need for a firm to be all things to all people. Defining your market isn't snooty, it's just good business.

Posted by: sandstone at January 18, 2006 10:51 AM

I am anon 5:03 and we didn't use another architect after our horrific experience with Delson and Sherman--can you read? We are artists and didn't feel the need to pay them for their "so called taste". I am sure that they have many satisfied customers who are incapable of doing things for themselves or feel the need to brag about using Yale trained architects. We did not feel the need to do that after our initial experience with them. Good luck in all of your renovations!

Posted by: Anonymous at January 18, 2006 11:42 AM

Their projects are too modern.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 18, 2006 12:49 PM

Hey Mr/Mrs Artist: it's Delson OR Sherman.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 18, 2006 3:25 PM

I've read through the posts here and find a consistent line of reasoning throughout: for some folks, self-renovating their house is second nature and for others, they need and use the assistance of others. I happen to be one of those lucky brownstone owners who has the wherewithal and tools necessary to skim-coat, strip, reconstruct, re-hang, route, turn, plumb and level. I would not have been able to afford the insanity of brownstone ownership otherwise. However, I know lots of people who cannot tell a cut nail from a box of Cheerio’s. For them, skilled architects fit the bill. To be fair to Ms. Delson, she doesn't provide architectural services as part of some charitable hobby. She earned the right to practice her profession and she's entitled to a market-rate fee for the service she provides. Like choosing to read this this weblog, or not – (which, by the way, I think is great) - you can retain an architect, or not; it’s a free country and all that. I think it’s disingenuous to criticize a professional because her services do not match your needs. I would ask the commenting artist if he or she would feel comfortable having a discussion regarding the quality of his or her art in light of the general population’s taste. Hard stuff.

For full disclosure purposes, I know Ms. Delson, but have not utilized her architectural skills – like I said, I’d really rather do it my self. She is a good source of information though and I have seen her work first hand and know other clients who used her services and it’s all positive.

Posted by: Champurrado at January 18, 2006 4:44 PM

The artist fellow from 5.03 and 11.42 comes off as a bit rude to the others on this thread who are not critiquing the artist, but rather stating what their experiences were with architects. If Mr./Ms. artist did not want to pay for an architect's "so called taste", then why did you hire one in the first place? Also, why critique others who have hired architects with snide, sarcastic comments. You sound like a real nightmare of a client for any architect or other service provider. BTW, I am not an architect or contractor. I'm handy and have done a real mixture of DIY and hired help as funds have permitted to restore/renovate my brownstone. I just think Mr. Artist is being unnecessarily rude to others on this thread due to his/her bad experience.

Also, ironically, after critiquing others for allegedly needing to brag about using Yale trained architects because they have no taste, Mr./Ms. Artist found it necessary to humbly note in their 5:03 post that their place has been featured as a backdrop in "a few high end magazines". How self-depricating. LOL

Posted by: Anonymous at January 18, 2006 5:19 PM

If you ask me, a lot of the negative posts on this site are envy masquerading as taste, financial acumen, liberal outrage, environmental responsibility, etc.

Posted by: TW at January 18, 2006 5:31 PM

I agree TW. Pretty funny sometimes. Can't let it get to you, gotta laugh... :)

Posted by: Anonymous at January 18, 2006 5:42 PM

To the owners of the featured brownstone...never said D or S was snooty...just said perhaps their approach comes off as snooty to some-HOWEVER...and proceeded to pretty much defend D/S business choices and automony.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 18, 2006 6:04 PM

*Love* the 5:31 comment -- how true.

New Yorker Talk of the Town deja vu?

Posted by: Anonymous at January 18, 2006 9:36 PM

Amen to Anon 5:19. I'll take an architect who thinks about money any day. What did Mr. & Mrs. Artist and that griper at 12:10 want - a bow-tied dreamer who can't dirty his hands with a budget? My dream architect would know the value of a dollar so she wouldn't surprise me with a design that costs triple what I asked for, and she'd know the value of her work so she wouldn't do it for free. Sound fair? By the way, those nice pictures speak louder than all these words.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 18, 2006 9:51 PM

think this website is getting way too grumpy. but there are some issues on here worth exploring. although brownstoner may never get another architect to agree to be featured in this way again. i too had these architects over to discuss a job and they told me that my budget was way too low. so now i'm working with another architect that has been in business even longer than they have and we'll see where we end up money-wise. i think hiring an architect is like getting involved in any kind of very personal service-driven relationship, it depends a lot on the people involved and how they view the goals (budget, timing, aesthetic) and how they communicate together. it's also one of the great kind of artistic matchings a client and an architect i think...reminds me of how i wish i could hire a great composer to write something "beautiful" for me. but sure there's a price tag for great beauty and it's also only a good value if you can afford it. i couldn't afford them, perhaps i can't even afford the reno job we are setting out to do. i'm happy heading in to the great unknown budget-wise. i'm sure they've been down that road and had miserable results with enough clients to know that they don't want to try that route again. i hope that anon 5:03 is right, that anybody with good taste can get the job done. time will tell if this is true in my case. i would probably sleep easier if i could afford to hire somebody like d+p so i don't have to sweat every detail.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 18, 2006 11:22 PM

Being the "griper at 12:10", responding to anonymous 1/18 at 9:51, otherwise known as "missed my point entirely", my only point is that for those of us who DONT have $200K to spend, I was put off in my particular interaction with Perla, in that her first, *literally* her first statement to me, without knowing much about the house, its condition, what we were looking to do etc, was that she would continue with the conversation if I was prepared to spend $200K or more.

My posting on this particular renovation was based on the fact that when we saw this acutal featured renovation on the Park Slope house tour and spoke at length to the owners, we were in love and wanted to have it done in similar form in our home...we were very impressed with the work, finishings, etc. and they had good things to say.

HOWEVER, the phone interaction we had with Perla to ask her more and perhaps engage her in our project, was VERY off-putting b/c she literally cut me off to inform me of her MINIMUM threshold. Additionally, she was unable to recommend anyone that might consider working within our budget (of around $100K) for a kitchen+ renovation.

It sounds like many people have had a good interaction with her and I don't doubt them...I'm simply trying to relay my experience with this particular featured renovation, the featured homeowners and the featured architect. To belittle this experience, is to belittle all the comments people give on a site like this.

I think architects are very important to the process as they can help us see our homes and their potential so much more clearly, not to mention take a lot of the hassle of contracting and bureaucracy out of our hands.

In the end, we hired another architect, one that was willing to work within our financial constraints (give $25K), and one that came up with an even more personalized and contextually appropriate design that we love, and did it on time.

I'm not saying its easy to be an architect today, but it certainly would be easier to be one that can just focus on renovations in which the budget is a secondary consideration...working within financial constraints was a key element in selecting the right architect, as it likely is for most of us reading this site. Those are not "gripes" or "envy"...but rather, reality.

Posted by: anonymous at January 19, 2006 1:49 AM

People were not jumping down your throat, 12.10, it was the "artist" who was basically saying that people who hire architects have no taste and need to pay for it. I can totally understand budgetary constraints and your frustration with your conversation, or lack thereof, with the expensive guys...

Posted by: Anonymous at January 19, 2006 10:34 AM

Hey Anon at 12:10, can you tell us the architect who worked with you on your $25K budget. I am planning to redo our kitchen and definitely cannot pull off $200K. We are DIY-ers and did it the first time around 15+ years ago, but have come to value what a professional eye might bring to our changing needs (2 teens who like to cook, for instance). Please share your resource!

Posted by: KCF at January 19, 2006 11:06 AM

I think the budget was 100k +the 25 give. It is unusual I think for an architect in brooklyn to turn down a 100k kitchen renovation, but that's just my experience

Posted by: Anonymous at January 19, 2006 11:34 AM

This is an utterly pointless thread in light of the fact that the majority of posters are anoymous. Hey everyone, feel free to make up random facts (especially you complainers)! And don't worry about making a cogent argument, as no one will be able to tell if you've even made an earlier post.

Posted by: ghidra at January 19, 2006 4:57 PM

why would there be any more validity to a statement if someone is using a name as opposed to posting anonymously. typing in a name does not make statements more or less reliable... it's just a blog anyway, not to be taken as the final word on anything imo.

Posted by: lp at January 19, 2006 5:25 PM

Hey ghidra, what's the difference between "ghidra" and "anonymous"? Neither one has any implication on accountability for statements? Your hypocrisy is amusing.

Posted by: breuklelyn at January 19, 2006 6:06 PM

Yeah, ghidra, you could be anyone for all we know. What a hypocrite! Now back to the thread...

Why are some people put off if an architecture firm like Delson or Sherman is upfront about the fact that they don't take projects under a certain size? Perhaps so they don't offend anyone they should just take the project and lose money on it. I'm sure they don't need to make a living.

Posted by: D00M at January 19, 2006 7:40 PM

I don't think Ghidra is suggesting s/he is any more anonymous than any of you. Ghidra is pointing out that those of you who post your silly anecdotes as fact have no credibility unless you leave your real name.

Props to DorSA, their work looks fresh.

Posted by: GRIMM at January 19, 2006 11:17 PM

I don't agree. Posting with a name does not add any more, or less, credibility. We don't know who is posting here and have no way of verifying the veracity of their statements without speaking to the firms themselves... Come on. It's a blog, not the NYT.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 20, 2006 4:46 PM

It would be funny if the anons supporting D or S are the architects themselves. It's entirely possible.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 5, 2007 9:52 PM

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January 17, 2006

New! Straight From The Architect's Mouth

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