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January 26, 2006

House of the Day: Cramming in Crown Heights

house
Need some input from the Crown Heights readers on this one. Cute from the outside (though the fire escape has gotta go!), we're worried about how chopped up this must be on the inside to squeeze in five units. Chances are whoever buys this will turn it into a one- or two-family which means you could remove the offending fire escape and make the most of the original details mentioned in the listing verbiage. You might want to have a chat with the neighbors about those window canopies while you're at it!
Crown Heights House [Prudential Douglas Elliman]




Posted by Brownstoner at 11:41 AM | Comments (31)
Categories: Properties

Comments

I can't stand those metal awnings. I live in Bay Ridge and they are everywhere.

Posted by: mouse at January 26, 2006 12:48 PM

I like 'em!

They are very retro and cool, unlike other similar 60s era "improvements" like tacky siding or (worst of all) that weird psuedo stucco fronting that some rowhouses have

Posted by: tripster at January 26, 2006 12:55 PM

I'm closing on a house in Crown Heights next week and it needs a lot of reno. I'm hopeful and faithful that one day CH regains it original splendor.

Posted by: faithful at January 26, 2006 1:06 PM

It's hard to comment on this house because the street isn't named, but it looks to me like it could be Lincoln, St.Johns or Sterling. In any case, I think a five unit house that small has to be pretty well chopped up, and anyone wanting to convert it back to a nice one or two family will have quite some expense on top of the purchase price.

FYI Brownstoner, the map link you posted is a bit off the mark.

Posted by: Hal at January 26, 2006 1:20 PM

My computer here at work is not letting me into the PDE site, so I have to take a guess that they divided 2 floors into 2 studio apts on each floor, with a floor through apt on the ground floor. Bleech! I'll save other comments till I see the listing. Although the awnings are metal, and perhaps in dubious taste, they are a good sign, in that they usually mean that someone cared enough to protect and keep up their property, which is always a good thing, no matter where.

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at January 26, 2006 1:26 PM

It's exciting to see all of the attention that Crown Heights has been getting recently. What do everyone predict about this neighborhood and how it will change in the next 5-10 years?

Posted by: Anonymous at January 26, 2006 1:37 PM

I predict the orthodox go nowhere and the poor west indians feel threatened by the white yuppies coming in. Yes...more of the same for the next 5 years. And the West Indian Day Parade will continue you draw more people and more violence.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 26, 2006 2:59 PM

Current owners will stay, orthodox jews will stay, renters in large buildings that are targets for going condo/co-op will go and be replaced by the same demographic currently moving into Prospect Heights. So long as the number of single-family brownstones stay relativly stable the community will change some but not as much as prospect heights. Folks that currently own now realize what they are sitting on, and most people aren't looking to move elsewhere.

Oh, and the parade? It will become kinder and more gentle as the police finally decide to actually provide enough folks to do things like crowd control.

Posted by: Oh Lord! at January 26, 2006 3:19 PM

Crown Heights is divided into 2 distinct areas, bisected by Eastern Parkway. I predict the south side, with the Hasidic population and a greater West Indian presence will stay pretty much the same for a number of years, if anything the Hasidic areas will grow. The north side of CH will slowly gentrify, as most of the recent housing attention is in this area, and it is next to Prospect Heights, and to a lesser degree, Bed Stuy. Except for some magnificent blocks south of Eastern Pkway, most of the best brownstone housing is in north CH. The only thing it is lacking are amenties, I would kill for a restaurant close to me. But I think in time, all these things will happen. Hopefully not too soon, however.

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at January 26, 2006 4:28 PM

I don't think I need to tell Brownstoner's readers that I'm optimistic about Crown Heights. After all, that's where I bought My Brownstone. I agree with CrownHeightsProud's comment above about gentrification being slow here. The reason in my opinion is the relative stability that already exists in much of the area.

I wonder if 'faithful' would tell us where he or she is moving to in the neighborhood.

I really do not like the metal awnings at all. But that's just my taste.

Posted by: Hal at January 26, 2006 5:34 PM

Very true, Hal, about the stability. I have met many, many extended families who have been in their homes since the 1950's when West Indian and African American families started to buy houses in the neighborhood in growing numbers. We also have many fewer abandoned houses and empty lots, due to a great degree to that same stability. I see a lot of renovation going on as I walk around, and many of the very fine apartment buildings are also going through thorough renovations. The existing housing stock in CH is of very high quality. I'm very glad to be in Crown Heights.

Posted by: Crown HeightsProud at January 26, 2006 6:09 PM

Is this one better for less??
http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&listingid=839959

Posted by: Anonymous at January 27, 2006 6:42 AM

The police and the parade "Kinder and gentler"??
Did you know the entire NYC Police Dept. is mandated that it work on Labor Day because of this parade? No cop is off that day, they all work, so I don't know where you think more police are coming from for this parade. They also are instructed to show restraint. At least until someone gets shot or stabbed. Like every year for the last 15 years!

Posted by: Anonymous at January 27, 2006 8:52 AM

I was shocked when I learned (from vintage photographs) that cloth awnings not terribly dissimilar from the metal variety in terms of aesthetics were found on most Victorian homes in the Ditmas Park area... Shade was a big deal when trees were still immature and ac wasn't even a twinkle in anyone's eye. Personally, I still don't like them, but it is sort of like the old medieval architecture arguement - sure the crisp stone interiors are pure and really appear tothe modern eye, but the interiors of medieval churches were actually painted using extremely bright colors. Most modern viewers recoil when they see reconstructions of what these structures actually looked like to contemporaries.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 27, 2006 10:08 AM

The Victorian canvas shades actually kept houses significantly cooler in summer. The stripes must have added some zing to otherwise uniform facades in some neighborhoods. I'm sure even a reduction of a few degrees was a relief at a time when people wore a ton of clothes with long sleeves and high necklines, even in summer.

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at January 27, 2006 11:08 AM

To anon 8:52 - "show restraint"? Perhaps if the prevailing attitude did not regard all of the parade goers as potential criminals who just haven't been caught doing something yet, as opposed to innocent revelers, among whom are a small minority of troublemakers, there would be more cooperation with the police and other authorities. I'm not condoning the violence, just questioning your thinly veiled insinuation that violence is inevitable.

Posted by: Bunky at January 27, 2006 11:19 AM

Here is my question though - were canvas shades used on brownstones as well? Or just on wood frame construction? Anyone seen any photographic evidence?

Posted by: Anonymous at January 27, 2006 11:35 AM

hey bunky i live in this area and people use this day to settle scores because of the chaos. I know for a fact the cops do nothing until there is a real act of violence or disorder.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 27, 2006 11:38 AM

that pepto-pink paint job on the left-side house also must go. it's nauseating.

Posted by: the golden bear at January 27, 2006 1:20 PM

Hal,

The property that we'll be closing on next week is on Bergen St. around the corner from the B'klyn Children's Museum. Any thoughts on the block?

Posted by: faithful at January 27, 2006 1:31 PM

I've seen pictures of brownstones with canvas awnings, perhaps in Mr. Lockwood's book? I'll have to check there,and in other sources,and will post documentation.

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at January 27, 2006 3:11 PM

Faithful, to my knowledge, that's a nice quiet block, and has great architecture. I'm only 2 blocks away, and walk down Bergen a lot. Best of luck, and write if you need anything.

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at January 27, 2006 3:14 PM

Thanks CrownHeightsProud. Once we are settled in, [in about five to six months (due to reno)]. We would like to be very active on the block and in the community. I really do see lots of potential for this area of Crown Heights.

Posted by: faithful at January 27, 2006 3:53 PM

Yes, canvas awnings were used on many brownstones decades ago. You might still find a few holdovers on Henry Street in Carroll Gardens & Cobble Hill. I always thought they were quite handsome. If I could, I would install them on my house, but my frontage is on the shady side of the street, so it's really unnecessary for cooling. The metal awnings are horrible.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 27, 2006 4:08 PM

Don't know the block, faithful, but have look on my way to Foodtown today.

Posted by: Hal at January 28, 2006 9:54 AM

As a long-time resident who was born n' raised in Crown Heights North, Hal is quite correct in the fact that many (the vast majority) of property owners have been here through generations when their families first purchased as early as the 40's. I have gone to school in this community, actively participated in community affairs, explored entrepreneurial endeavors and had a good ole time. However, I do find interesting (and sometimes amusing) the perspective most "newcomers" have of the area. This is something that the vast majority of us has known all along and hence, why we're still here. The quality of our brownstones and mini mansions is on par, and in some cases, unsurpassed relative to other "brownstone" enclaves. Also, acess to transportation is readily available. Unlike many "re-discovered" brownstone communities in Brooklyn, Crown Heights North has always remained very stable and to this day many houses still are passed on generationally. My brothers each live within one block and own their homes, as well as friends I grew up with. This gives us a "hometown" feeling whcih has been lost in some areas. Neighbors look out for one another and speak (actually have a dialogue) with one another, attend cookouts, stoop sit, etc. On some blocks kids still play skelly, tag, hide n' seek, jump rope, etc. and is refreshing to see.

I also agree that there is a need for variety on "the Ave", but Starbucks ain't it. So much for now. Look forward to posting again.

Posted by: MsSterlingPl at January 29, 2006 4:22 PM

The house is 969 Lincoln Place. The street is so narrow that the entire north side is marked "No Parking Anytime". It would be a tough block if you needed a car. Otherwise, it is indeed a quiet block that has a bit of intimate charm because the street is narrow and the houses are not tall.

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