« Forgotten NY Ponders the Atlantic Yards House of the Day: Troy Avenue Teaser »

January 10, 2006

$2,000 a Foot in Gravesend? You Betcha

A new development called The Venetian going up on Avenue P in Gravesend is a rather not-so-subtle reminder that not everyone covets the brownstone aesthetic. The fellow who brought it to our attention claims that apartments at the over-the-top residence are selling for between $700 and $1,500 a foot. Our tipster also notes that Sitt Asset Management, the company that is behind the Venetian, also has assembled another two sites nearby, one on Avenue U, and the other on Ocean Parkway and R. The Ocean Parkway project reportedly will be even more luxe, with per square foot estimates in the $1,300 to $2,000 range. In what is sure to elicit accusations of narrowmindedness and provincialism (heck, given some recent threads someone will probably find a way to call us sexist or racist), we'll go out on a limb and say that we didn't know that there were that many folks in Gravesend packing this kind of buying power. Different strokes for different folks.
The Venetian [431 Avenue P] GMAP
Introduction [Venetian Plaza]

Comments

Holy shit. I didn't know luxury like that even existed outside of Monaco. Do people even live that luxe in Manhattan? I guess I'm destined to remain in the ranks of the proletariat because I can't perceive ANYONE living in a place like that.

Posted by: Shahn Andersen at January 10, 2006 11:25 AM

Totally pimptastic, I love it. Not eveyone likes dour brownstones or Meir Minimalism. Not exactly Venetian in style though, this brings a little of Paris via Miami to Brooklyn, more the better. Bright with detail, beats the standard orange brick Fedder aestetic of most new Brooklyn construction.

Of course, the devil is in the details, many a pretty rendering lead to a lame reality.

Posted by: Ferrerin05 at January 10, 2006 11:27 AM

I'm sure many of these new developments in Southern Brooklyn are aimed at the ever-bourgeoning Russian market. Look at the success of Oceana on Brighton Beach; a poorly designed 3 bedroom for almost $2 million...who woulda thunk it?

Before, Brooklyn was viewed as something to escape from, and many well-to-do Russians migrated to Long Island or New Jersey. Now, more and more young Russian professionals want to stay in Brooklyn. There is a huge demand for nice apartments because many younger couples can't afford/don't want to live in places like Mill Basin or Manhattan Beach. Moreover, many older, wealthy, established Russian parents are buying places for their 20-30 years old kids.

This development will be a huge success, and I guarantee it’s going to be overwhelmingly occupied by ex-commies feeling nostalgic for Peterhof.

Posted by: Comrade at January 10, 2006 12:13 PM

There are extrememly wealthy people in southern Brooklyn. It isn't a recent trend either.

There is a palatial home under construction in Manhattan Beach that cost $16,000,000 to build.

Drive around these areas and you will be amazed.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 10, 2006 12:41 PM

i agree with all of the above. the russian market will crave this blingtastic development. as someone who spent the better part of 10 years going to my grandma's in sheepshead bay every other weekend, i can attest that there indeed is a market for this.

as i've said before, not everyone wants a minimalist brownstone or some new brick condominium. they want this.

Posted by: ltjbukem at January 10, 2006 12:44 PM

there's more where this came from:

http://corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=822162

2000 sq foot condos for $1.2-$1.3MM.

is that a gold-plated kitchen i see? damn, bring out the osetra and sevruga.

Posted by: ltjbukem at January 10, 2006 12:50 PM

$1500 a square foot becomes much more affordable when you don't pay any income taxes.

Posted by: Anon at January 10, 2006 12:51 PM

I agree with the 12:41pm poster. You only have to drive around Gravesend, Marine Park, Mill Basin etc. looking at the mega-mansions that in recent years have replaced older, much more modest houses to know that there are plenty of folks with plenty of money in these neighborhoods. Another RE phenom that's goes largely unreported on brownstoner is the very high sale prices out in the avenues where Orthodox buyers are prepared to pay anywhere from $1-3m for homes that keep them close to family and community. One reason this is seldom commented on is that most of these properties never even come on the open market.

Posted by: Anon at January 10, 2006 1:07 PM

When will a clinton hill/ bedstuy house cost 16 million? hmmm never

Posted by: Anonymous at January 10, 2006 1:12 PM

Maybe if you covered it in diamond plated shingles?

Posted by: Shahn Andersen at January 10, 2006 1:25 PM

Umm... When will a Park Slope or even a Brooklyn Heights house cost $16 million? Think about it DELETED, there are real lots to build on in Manhattan / Bergen Beach. No one is going to spend $16 million to build a house on a 20x100 or 25x100 lot.

Posted by: anonymous at January 10, 2006 1:35 PM

Please watch your language, 1:35 pm.

Yes, there is a lot of money in South Brooklyn. Drive around Midwood and you will find many McMansions, as well as in Dyker Heights and, or course, Manhattan Beach. I wouldn't say any of these communities are particularly receptive to outsiders, however.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 10, 2006 2:11 PM

There is big, big money in Southern Brooklyn. Lots of people don't want to live in Park Slope, so they (and their money) go elsewhere.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 10, 2006 2:13 PM

Brownstones in Park Slope, Brooklyn Heights, Clinton Hill, Williamsburg and even Bed/Stuy could very easily go for $16M some day. Comparable houses in Manhattan sometimes go for that much.

These neighborhoods of Brooklyn are quickly becoming part of Manhattan in terms of who lives in them and what services they provide. How long can it continue that prices in Brooklyn will be so much lower than those in Manhattan?

Posted by: veggieburger at January 10, 2006 2:24 PM

Watch my language? What are you, the FCC? This is radio free Brooklyn here DELETED. We are all adults and I can be crass and swear if it pleases me. Get over it.

Posted by: anonymous at January 10, 2006 2:26 PM

Most 'cultured' Russians with a hankering for Peterhoff or Hermitage wouldn't be cought dead in a monstrosity like this (or Oceana, for that matter). They are likely to be found on UES.

The nouveau riche will certainly flock to this, though. Ugh...

Posted by: Anonymous at January 10, 2006 2:31 PM

What I find more intriguing is that Mark Scotto (Buddy's son) is one of the sales agents. There was a rumor floating around CG that one of the new condo developments along the shores of the canal was to be called the Venetian.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 10, 2006 2:53 PM

Oceana is a crappy development (notwithstanding the artistic renderings) and there is no reason to think that this one will be any better.

But again I reiterate my original point which is that these prices are not too bad when your bizness pays no taxes and leaves the rest of us to cover the bills.

Posted by: Anon at January 10, 2006 2:58 PM

This building fits in with the architecture of the newly built private homes/mansions in the area. They are similar to mansions seen in westchester,lons island,new jersey or connecticut, but with less acreage. (I am not talking about manhattan beach). Not everyone wants to live in a stupid brownstone. There is life outside of brownstone brooklyn.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 10, 2006 2:59 PM

these comments about russians paying no taxes are obnoxious... there are plenty of western europeans and regular old long-term americans who manage to cheat the IRS and generally fuck the system financially... there is no need to get defensive and attack the ethnic group you think is going to live in this building by calling them tax cheats! geez.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 10, 2006 3:29 PM

anon 2:26/1:35 is obnoxious. swear words - oooh. Do everyone a favor and try contributing something to the discussion besides a dose of your childish personality.

In the parts of Midwood I've been through, it's mostly fancy brick home, maybe not big enough to be McMansions, that nevertheless take up almost all their lot. Since presumably these are for families with children, I wonder why the owners place so little value on yards for the kids to play in instead of extra rooms that will barely get used no matter how many kids you have. It's not just that area of course, it's a basic McMansion MO that I don't understand...

Posted by: petunia at January 10, 2006 3:30 PM

There is a house in Brooklyn Heights right now asking 16 million. Every floor has a direct Harbor view.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 10, 2006 3:37 PM

There are waterfront houses in Mill Basin with massive yatchs on their private docks.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 10, 2006 3:38 PM

Is anonymous 01:35 PM Brownstoner?

Posted by: Anonymous at January 10, 2006 3:44 PM

There are some educated Russians living in Oceana - I personally know several people that work in the financial sector, live in Oceana and pay more taxes that many people that post here. I don't think people will pay so much to live in Gravesend. It's not considered a very area by most people - including most russians. Russians want to live in Sheepshead Bay, Brighton Beach, Kings Highway or Bensonhurst - close to shops, restaurants and "life"

Posted by: Leo at January 10, 2006 4:54 PM

It is so stereotypical of some posters here to think that most russians that have money don't pay taxes. I don't think that average russian immigrant is diffirent from an average New York resident in most respects. Most russians that I know just work in regular jobs - from computer programming to accounting - and they pay taxes and pay more than they should because they live in this socialist city that allows MTA workers to retire at 55 and earn up to 100K with overtime for doing really meanial jobs... That's where the problem lies, not with russians.

Posted by: Leo at January 10, 2006 5:06 PM

I'd like to see what happens when the city starts fairly taxing property in brownstone Brooklyn like they do in south Brooklyn.

People should be paying an annual tax of 1% of the market value of their house.

1.3 million dollar house should pay 13,000 a year.

This will further push low income homeowners to sell and move to Penn.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 10, 2006 5:23 PM

It's funny that people will bitch about the salaries of transit workers. These same people often fail to be at all perturbed by "management consultants" and "executive coaches" who receive astronomical sums of money in exchange for "insights" that cut no deeper than the average Hallmark card. Or, they'll justify Wall St. salaries by pointing out that they're what the 'market' will bear, but then refuse to extend this same line of reasoning to more blue collar professions.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 10, 2006 5:32 PM

There isn't a need to bash others on this blog.

Poor against Rich, Rich Against Poor, Black Against White, White Against Black, Mixed White against European White, Hispanic against Asians. Office workers against uniformed workers.

Why can we have intelligent discussion about real estate?

Posted by: Anonymous at January 10, 2006 5:41 PM

Not just Russians. There are wealthy Syrian Jews in that part of the city, especially the Ocean Parkway-Avenue R area where that other development is supposed to go up. Just saying.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 10, 2006 5:49 PM

Speaking of Russians, does anybody know a really good Russian restaurant in Manhattan or Brooklyn?
I sometimes hit the Russian Vodka Room in Midtown but could use a few more recomendations.

Thanks in advance

Posted by: the EATER at January 10, 2006 5:51 PM

Anon 1:35 is not us. And, by the way, Anon 2:26, this is NOT radio free Brooklyn. This is more like our living room--no first amendment for you to lean on here. So be respectful and avoid the profanity, or you're out. Pretty simple.

Posted by: Brownstoner at January 10, 2006 6:01 PM

IF ANY OF YOU SO CALLED BRIANIACTICS HAVEN'T FIGURED IT OUT YET IT IS BECAUSE YOU NEVER ACTUALLY LIVED IN THE AREA MUCH LESS THE REAL WORLD. CAN ANYONE SAY SEPHARDIC JEW.

AND IF YOU THOUGHT ALL THE MONEY IS IN MANHATTAN THINK AGAIN THESE GUYS HAVE BLOOMBERG AS THERE PERSONAL FINANCIAL ADVISORS.

FEAR NOT HOWEVER BECAUSE THE GOOD NEWS IS THIS WILL NEVER BE BUILT BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO CLUE HOW TO BUILD A DOG HOUSE MUCH LESS AN APARTMENT BULIDING OF THIS RIDICULOUS MAGNITUDE.

DID ANYONE KNOW THIS IS ENTIRE AREA IS A SACRED INDIAN BURIAL GROUND? SOMEONE BETTER CALL AN ARCHIOLOGIST BEFORE THE FOUNDATION STARTS.

Posted by: A HOLY MAN at January 11, 2006 12:28 AM

hm... Interesting discussion... I am russian, my husband is russian, heck, paying and paying and paying taxes... Please, give me more information, are russians exempt from paying taxes? Did I miss anything? fuck, 15 years, two six-figure salaries!
Ouch! If we knew about this russiannotaxes rule earlier!

Posted by: Anonymous at January 11, 2006 12:56 AM

I love this city, its people and the energy!! You guys are hilarious!!! Brooklyn is a huge borough and offers something different for everyone. Some of us prefer urban over sub-urban; coastal over rural; brownstones over apartment buildings; mc mansions over grand ma colonials, etc. Nevertheless, it's all here in Brooklyn- the borough/city that allows everyone, no matter what race, creed or color to carve out a piece of something unique for himself and call home.

Posted by: BrownBomber at January 11, 2006 2:10 AM

Petunia alot of the large newer brick construction you see in Midwood are owned by religious Jews that have very large extended families.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 11, 2006 8:27 AM

Russian Vodka Room is gross. I would try Uncle Vanya's in Manhattan.

For fun times (and to see the kind of people who will live in this type of a property), go to Baku Palace in Bklyn - dinner, show, and a bottle of booze for $75/person.

Insomniac anon at 12:06 - here here to the 'no taxes for Russians' rule - I would love to stop paying mine.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 11, 2006 8:39 AM

Petunia - You're a bitch, how's that? Try driving through Midwood again, by the way.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 11, 2006 2:06 PM

Apologies to Petunia - TOTALLY misread your post. Thought you were on the side of the foul language brigade.... I do think there are McMansions in Midwood, though. Please forgive. Lame attempt at sarcasm directed at misunderstood post.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 11, 2006 2:10 PM

Juat a note, there are mostly Syrian and Sephardic Jews, who are very wealthy and great business people. All of there families like the area-Gravesend or Ocean Parkway or Midwood and such and look for housing within the area/community. They have improved the housing stock in the area. Some developments are very big and out of place, but if they build it, some will come.
:O)

Posted by: El-04 at January 12, 2006 12:28 AM

Anon at 8:27 is slightly off--Midwood has huge houses, eat the lots, but pretty small families. This is a very well-to-do Orthodox area and what's true for the rest of the world is true for the frum--the rich get richer and the poor get children. The big old-fashioned families you see in Borough Park, Crown Heights and Williamsburg are not the norm in Midwood. In fact, there's an inverse--bigger families tend to own smaller homes. Having grown up in south Brooklyn, I miss the lawns, porches and really quite generously sized houses that are disppearing to very cheesy and vulgar shamansions.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 12, 2006 1:56 AM

pussy gang bang bang bus gang draw manga girl fruits basket manga wife forced feminization husband wifes naked barry bonds axl rose beastiality meat hunters free beastiality mpeg

Posted by: Chandler at May 14, 2006 11:20 AM

Please remove post above this one.

To jan. 10 2:53 pm - That is correct and this one got the venitian from the one that was to be on the canal. (I named it)

Posted by: Anonymous at December 6, 2006 9:18 PM

I have lived in Midwood my whole life (I'm 25 years old) (and am only 2 blocks away from the Venetian, which they are only currently starting to build by the way). (Yes, 2 blocks away is considered Gravesend.) But I can definitely attest to some of the HUGE houses in my area (especially on Ocean Parkway).

This neighborhood is a very family oriented neighborhood (there's a lot of elderly people here too), so there are not many people my age living here, so that's tough... The neighborhood has gotten more diverse over the years, so it's not only Orthodox Jews and Italians now. There are a lot of Russians and Asians also, which is good, because I have always been part of the minority in the neighborhood. But, everyone in the neighborhood is very friendly to each other, and we look out for each other.

It's true- our neighborhood is very "unknown" to many "outsiders". Only in recent years have people said, "Oh, you live there." Most people my age prefer to live in Downtown Brooklyn. I don't think I would disagree with them. But if you want to raise a family in a safe neighborhood with VERY good schools, definitely live here.

One question for anyone that can help: I actually want to move out of my parents' house, and would like to eventually buy a coop or condo (I CANNOT afford these multi- family houses or even a single family house near me.) Does anyone know where an up-and-coming area would be, to buy a place for still relatively cheap right now (and hopefully make money off of it in the future)? Or do you guys think I should try to buy a place near me, and have a huge mortgage for the next 30 years? Any thoughts would be great!

Thanks a lot!

Posted by: Anne at April 19, 2007 7:25 PM

I THINK ITS A BEUTIFUL AREA TO LIVE IN. IVE LIVED IN GRAVESEND ALL MY LIFE, AND EVERY BLOCK IS BEING RAFERBISHED AND MADE TO BE BEUTIFUL BY ALL THE NEW HOUSES BEING BUILT. I MEEN CUMON ITS ALL MANSIONS AND THE PRICES ARE THROUGH THE ROOF, BUT YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT USED TO LIVE IN GRAVESEND ARE MOVING OUT BECAUSE OF THE PRICES THERE GETTING FOR THERE HOMES, THAT ARE BEING PURCHASED MOSTLY BY THE SYRIAN JEWS WHO ARE BUYING TO SECURE THERE CHILDRENS FUTURES FINANCIALY.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 25, 2007 3:16 PM

the Oceana is a very unique product for the russians its on the water in the nighborhood they built avenue p is not russians that can afford this wont buy here maybe the Sephardic community will buy a few but the prices will come down i grew up in this area and still live there russians no chance syrians maybe price chop no question

Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 6:29 PM

just walked by this monster . i live 10 blocks away . but i had to see this. unfortunately the artist rendering is much nicer than the actual building,i am born and bred here.44 years,, Whats the marketing plan for this to tell every one they have a lovely view of the original location of the Bank that was robbed in "DOG DAY AFTERNOON". The developers should just gift this building to the city for a new highschool.

Posted by: guest at May 23, 2008 8:46 PM

« Forgotten NY Ponders the Atlantic Yards House of the Day: Troy Avenue Teaser »

January 10, 2006

$2,000 a Foot in Gravesend? You Betcha

Comments

Post a comment

Latest Restaurant Additions