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October 5, 2005

Brooklyn Market Doesn't Look So Bad, Does It?

chart
Buried deep in the Brown Harris Stevens Third Quarter Report are some interesting statistics on market activity in Brooklyn's ritziest nabes. And if the stats are to be believed, we may all be getting worked up over nothing. According to the report, apartments in Brooklyn Heights and Park Slope sold for an average price of $612,367 in the third quarter, 35% higher than one year ago. And townhouses? The average price per square foot rose to $547, more than 20% higher than the third quarter of 2004. Doesn't seem to be be much cause for panic in these numbers though, does there?
Third Quarter Report [Brown Harris Stevens via Curbed]




Posted by Brownstoner at 8:57 AM | Comments (17)
Categories: Market

Comments

Actually, the graph you picture does have quarter-to-quarter data, showing that houses were up $20 per square foot. And that they had dropped slightly the quarter before. So I guess we were all supposed to panic three months ago and missed our chance.

Posted by: linusvanpelt at October 5, 2005 9:54 AM

I wish these reports the realtor publish would include number of sales in the samples.
Also I find median prices per square ft. and more informing than 'average' prices.
Also - can you find any current townhouse listings in Bklyn Hts for
less than this average price per sq ft($547)?

Posted by: Anonymous at October 5, 2005 9:54 AM

Agree with Anon 9:54 about the Brklyn Hts point. And I have the same question for much of Park Slope. People are asking (and apparently getting) over $500 per square foot near where we live in the South Slope, and I'm talking at the 5th/6th Avenue level, not PPW. And this is about the cheapest area of the Slope, which is generally cheaper than the Heights.

And 30 seconds on Corcoran indicates to me that, while there are some places going for $500 per sq ft, many more seem to be in the $700 range, and more in the Heights.

Maybe they are counting down to 3rd Ave, which would lower the average price per square foot somewhat.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 5, 2005 10:04 AM

Anon @ 10:04
I hope I'm not misunderstanding you,
but keep in mind that $ per SF is very different
for townhouses vs. co-op/condos.
Co-op/condos in park slope/brooklyn heights are
at $700+ per SF.
And Co-op/condos in South Slope are getting
$500+ per SF.

Posted by: brklynarchtct at October 5, 2005 10:13 AM

brklynarchtct:

my estimates was for townhouses. it was an admittedly rough estimate, and you may know more than me. it was based on a quick review of corcoran, plus various prices from sales that i have read about.

anon 10:04

Posted by: Anonymous at October 5, 2005 10:19 AM

The $547/sf average for townhouses sounds really low to me.

Posted by: Miguel at October 5, 2005 10:52 AM

I haven't read the report yet, but based on yesterday's coverage in Curbed and the NYT, it sounds as though the Manhattan market has begun to flatten/drop. Combine this with Property Grunt's reports about weak open houses in Manhattan, and the market seems to be changing.

For whatever reason, Brooklyn is still holding its own, both in terms of open houses and prices (yay, Brooklyn!). I don't think this can last long, however. The price trend in Brooklyn has generally tracked the trend in Manhattan, and if anything, Brooklyn prices have seen more over-inflated to me in recent months than Manhattan prices.

Just my two-cents, of course.

Posted by: Sloper at October 5, 2005 11:39 AM

Absurd price gains out of wack with an real world fundamentals are precisely the reason to panic.


Once Fannie Mae goes down, so do the prices in all the hot, new, marginal nabes in Brooklyn.

Posted by: s at October 5, 2005 12:59 PM

Anyone know how/where they come up with their figures? Based on sales from their firm or REBNY sales?
I can't think it can be all sales ( as if you check propshark.com or public records - many sales are to family members or from personal to incorporation, etc which are not open market prices). And especially coop sales not public record.
Not surprising that NYTimes or other media don't questions realtors reports or any quotes/assertions by realtors - since all these real estate firms are big advertising revenue.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 5, 2005 3:17 PM

If Manhattan goes down, watch out Brooklyn. Most nabes in Manhattan are established, with substantial interest both local and internationally. Brooklyn on the other hand is simply a bunch of local people, looking for a decent standard of living and priced out of the sort of space they would need in Manhattan. If Manhattan goes down 10%, you can expect Brooklyn to go down 20-30%

Posted by: Anon at October 5, 2005 5:14 PM

If prices came down, I'd still want to live in Park Slope rather than Manhattan. I'd simply move into a bigger nicer place in PS.

Posted by: D at October 5, 2005 5:41 PM

I agree with D completely. The decrease in the price for a nicer PS place for my family will be greater than the loss of equity in the place we presently own. Thus, if prices drop some, it might even be to our advantage. (Of course, mortgage rates have a big impact on this calculation as well.)

Posted by: Anonymous at October 5, 2005 5:46 PM

Same old thread. Yadda, yadda, yadda ...

Believe it or not, some neighborhoods in Brooklyn are first choices of people. You simply don't get large contiguous beautiful brownstone areas in Manhattan. Brooklyn probably keeps going because of the limited number of such brownstone areas available, whereas in Manhattan, there are many condos and new developments - any many generic junior fours etc... Not as many unique historic properties in nice communities.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 5, 2005 6:00 PM

Brooklyn is my first choice, but I still think that prices in Brooklyn have historically tended to be lower than in Manhattan. Even though Brooklyn has more nice contiguous brownstone neighborhoods, a brownstone in the WV or on the Upper West Side still costs more than in Park Slope or probably even Brooklyn Heights. This isn't because Brooklyn isn't a lot nicer than the UWS (at least in my opinion), but because Manhattan is better known.

Brownstone Brooklyn is a much closer commute to a lot of areas in Manhattan than the UWS, but a lot of Wall Street types would still sooner die than live in Brooklyn. They're dumb, but these sort of things still influence prices. So if there's a slow-down in Manhattan, it will affect brownstone Brooklyn, from Bed-Stuy to Brooklyn Heights.

Posted by: Sloper at October 5, 2005 6:19 PM

Re the comment that brokers' comments in the press can't be trusted, and journalists aren't skeptical enough... I recently bought condo in Cobble Hill that was listed at 1100 square feet, only to see my broker quoted in the newspaper to the effect that the apartment had 950 square feet (he was citing my purchase in trying to "talk up" Cobble Hill per-square-foot selling prices). I prefer to think he was puffing, but perhaps it was just a form of public confession.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 5, 2005 6:46 PM

I'm not saying that Brooklyn real estate isn't tied to Manhattan. I'm just saying that people who say if Manhattan goes down 10%, Brooklyn goes down 20-30% are probably wrong. And by the way, I would guess that most of the people who actually own brownstones and apartments in expensive neighborhoods in Brooklyn work in Manhattan.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 5, 2005 6:49 PM

Also, I am not disputing that Manhattan prices are higher than Brooklyn prices. What I was getting at is that brownstone Brooklyn (and brownstone Manhattan where it still exists) will retain value better due to the limited amount of such properties, compared to the many non-descript generic apartments throughout all of NYC. Not to say brownstones won't go down in price or stay relatively flat in price if the market slows, just that they are a limited commodity in an already tight property market.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 5, 2005 6:55 PM

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