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August 4, 2005

HOTD: Fulton Street Newbie Asking Too Much

house Back in April we posted some thoughts on this townhouse development which is known as Atlantic Commons and was done by none other than Forest City Ratner a decade ago. Our take then was the same it is now: These are a decent attempt to build townhouses that respect their Fort Greene location, especially since we're sure they were done with an eye on the bottom line. That, however, doesn't justify pricing them on a par with brownstones that are a hundred years older and on tree-lined streets closer to the park. The fact is that this particular house, while possessing a generous yard due to its corner location, is still on Fulton Street and still only three stories. As a result, we think that $1.5 million is way too much. (These houses sold for $225,000 new back in 1994 and, according to a reader, were up to about $395,000 in 1996.) Other commenters in our original post noted the small rooms, thin walls, low ceilings and lack of stoop as negatives. We'll be surprised if it fetches any more than about $1.1-1.2 million. Do you agree?
730 Fulton Street [NYT Listings] GMAP
Decent Townhouse Reproductions? [Brownstoner]

Comments

i assumed these were affordable housing. (??)
the price is crazy!!
no way should they be priced like a real townhouse.

Posted by: lc at August 4, 2005 12:20 PM

ugly mugly

Posted by: Anonymous at August 4, 2005 12:27 PM

I'd be stunned if it goes over $1 million. While not bad for affordable housing, it is not a million dollar home in my opinion. No details, busy street, no trees...

Posted by: Anonymous at August 4, 2005 12:28 PM

I thought they were moderate income housing with a limit on the re-sale price. Regardless1.5 is crazy talk.
I would happily pay 799-850K, since they are in move-in condition and set up for renters. Could be a fine investment at that price.

I've been inside one and they do have very low ceilings and a cheap looking interior. Kind of like a suburban townhouse. However, the exterior is ok and they are in a very convenient location with great neighbors - the gardening in Atlantic Commons is unbelieveable.

PS If Ratner built these, obviously he's familiar with the concept of low-rise, neighborhood appropriate housing. It just makes the Atlantic Yards project that much more galling.

Posted by: clinton hillbilly at August 4, 2005 1:13 PM

these were not built by Forest City Ratner

Posted by: anonymous at August 4, 2005 1:28 PM

Bring on the delightful sound of a real estate bubble bursting. This overspeculation has got to stop. AND FOR CRAP LIKE THIS? Please-take the crack pipe away from the seller.

Posted by: Fort Queen at August 4, 2005 3:10 PM

I completely agree that $1.5 million is too much. Something around $700 - $800 would be more reasonable.

I hope that someone that likes to garden purchases it. This place is a JUNKYARD!!!!!! I can't believe that the neighbors put up with this guy who has all his tools in the yard for years. Especially when everyone else does such a good job with their gardens in this area. What a shame. Everyone in the neighborhood works really hard to have a nice place to live and this guy has a junkyard and expects to make a hugh profit too. It's despicable.

Posted by: mf at August 4, 2005 4:04 PM

395,000 in 1996. Well there were 100 year old brownstones in Park Slope between 5th and 6th Avenue in 1996 selling for 375-450K. This is our market today... million is just average....crazy.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 4, 2005 4:28 PM

I believe you also get a parking spot with these homes. That should be worth at least $200-350K. EZ.

I have also been inside (tried to rent one 1.75 years ago) and to say that the interiors are cheap would be an understatement. THis is just a vertical tract home with an eye on furnishings from Wiesman's Salvage. $1.5 HAS GOT TO BE A JOKE !?!

Posted by: Anonymous at August 4, 2005 4:57 PM

relax folks...the guy is just out fishing...and if someone decided to put in a bid for asking, then so be it...let the market decide..and if someone bids $1.5, then so be it. since you are all confident that this won't happen, no use in wasting bandwidth.

Posted by: ltjbukem at August 4, 2005 5:15 PM

"Bring on the delightful sound of a real estate bubble bursting."

Not a homeowner yourself, perchance?

Posted by: TW at August 4, 2005 5:47 PM

this is not a sign that the bubble is about to burst- just a seller or broker trying to test the market and see what they can get. the brownstone we bought this year was first priced over it's value and the asking price was dropped $300,000 after no bids.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 4, 2005 5:55 PM

He's already turned down 1.3.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 5, 2005 9:24 AM

You've got to be kidding!

Posted by: Brownstoner at August 5, 2005 9:53 AM

How on earth could someone get a mortgage for $1.3m for that? Seems very irresponsible of the bank.

I can't decide who is crazier -- the person who offered $1.3 or the seller for turning it down.

Posted by: Sloper at August 5, 2005 10:04 AM

Banks seem to care about the square footage, comps and rental income. I'm sure a LI appraiser would love this place. Quality construction, aesthetics and historic detail have very little value to banks. Remember, this house is in prime Fort Greene. The comps must be stellar even if the house sucks.

Posted by: clinton hillbilly at August 5, 2005 11:09 AM

I love the buildings known as the village of Atlantic commons.They added much needed character to a once dilapitated neighborhood.I happen to own one of them and if I decided to sell mine now it would be in the 1.2 to 1.5 million dollar range.Several homeowners have already had their homes appraised in the 1 to 1.2 million dollar range.Are the buildings worth this money you ask? Why not over 3,000 sq ft of space a place to park your off the street and a decent sized back yard.You are walking distance from the 3rd largest mass transit hub in all of New York City the Pacific st./Atlantic ave.Train station.The first and second transit hub respectively are Grand Central station and then Times Square station.What is the real estate worth near these train stations.Alot more than 1.5 million.If I a Civil servant want to sell my home in the open market for top dollar why can't I.Just because my house isn't a 100 years old come on now.Isn't real estate about location and location.So let me understand this you can sell an apartment in the Greene ave. Condos for 1,000$ a square foot or about 1.2 million dollars for 2 bedrooms but I can't sell my house for 1.5 million dollars.Give me a break.Don't hate the player just hate the game.If you don't have the money that's fine but don't bash my neighborhood.You should just have to understand the dynamics in real estate you sell to the highest bidder.

Posted by: Marcus at August 6, 2005 9:11 PM

As an owner of one of these homes I would love to see his home fetch 1.5 million dollars.Several of the homeowner in this complex have put alot work inside these buildings since they bought them 10 years ago.Why not 1.5 million?Would you rather pay 1.25million acrooss the street at the Greene Ave. Condos for 2 bedrooms.Everybody I knew 10 years ago told me they would not buy these homes ,but today they wish they had.Most of the people that posted their 2 cent comments wished they owned one of these homes.I'm tired of all of the jealous non- home owners.This man wants to sell his home at market rate what's wrong with that.You all so get off street parking in the back of your home.If you buy a brownstowne up the block you have wake up in the morning and move your car side to side.You can walk to the mall.You can walk and take the 2,3,4,5,N,R,B,D,Q,M,C,G and LIRR.25,26,45,41,52,67 Buses all walking distance from your home.These homes are located smack dab in the middle all the public transportation in Brooklyn.Stop hating and start congratulating.

Posted by: StopDaHating at August 6, 2005 9:34 PM

your all just jealous. "He's already turned down 1.3." 1.5 is not crazy for this corner house.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2005 10:00 PM

This is a capitalist society we live in right?So what's wrong if this guy want's more capital.10 years ago alot of the brownstones in the area were selling in the $200,000 to $300,000 range.And now there selling over for over 1 million plus.So what makes those buildings better than these.A 2 bedroom apartment is still a2 bedroom apartment right?So this guy want's to sell his building for 1.5 million?The truth of the matter is somebody will end up buying it for what the seller is asking for.Didn't Majic Johnson buy the old Williamsburg savings bank to convert into luxury rentals?.Aren't they going to develope over the old Atlantic Ave. yards?.And you don't think this guy can't get what he wants?I beg to differ. Most of the so called civil servants are sitting on a pot of gold which anybody in their right minds would want a piece of.

Posted by: G Train at August 7, 2005 1:07 AM

Is it that far fetched that this home can get 1.5 million on the open market.Sure the guy that owns it has a bit of eclectic tastes with the stuff he has in the front yard.I feel this home is a steal in todays housing market.What's a parking space worth in downtown Brooklyn today?You get one with this home.How about a huge yard? You also get it with this home.You also get great views of the Downtown Brooklyn skyline.The apartments all have a country house feel to them with the owners use of yellow pine plank flooring.You really need to see this home.I feel it is a blend of Vermont country and New York city living.

Posted by: anonymous at August 7, 2005 8:56 AM

Did this message board get taken over by the Atlantic Commons Homeowners Association?

The issue with the price isn't the neighborhood; I don't think anyone posting here has an issue with Fort Greene (in response to the "who needs Manhattan" comment).

The issue, as I see it, is that 100+ year old brownstones tend to have a lot more charm, attention to detail, etc, than this type of new construction. Yes, Magic Johnston is turning the Williamsburgh Savings Bank building into condos, but that building has enormous character and great views. (Though for me, too many memories of the orthodonist to live there).

Traditionally, the brownstones have been priced above the new townhouse-type construction, due to the quality of the old buildings. This was certainly the case back in the mid-90s when Atlantic Commons was built. So the idea that these buildings are now comparably priced to a brownstone seems shocking and downright strange.

But if some buyer wants to shell out $1.5m for a house built with income-controls and govt subsidies, so be it. Next thing, those shoddy ticky-tack houses between 5th and 4th Avenues in Park Slope, behind the Key Food near Baltic, will be $2 million.

Posted by: Sloper at August 7, 2005 6:43 PM

Real estate has always been about location,location and locaction.This gentleman has this with this home.1.5 million seems fair.

Posted by: realistic at August 8, 2005 3:09 AM

Dear Sloper, Those ticky tack buildings behind keyfood might just be worth 2 million in the near future.With the re-zoning of 4th ave that whole enclave of homes will be worth alot maybe to a future developer.Don't you wish you bought one of those homes for $75,000 when they were built in the mid 80's.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 8, 2005 3:15 AM

Have you been in one of those buildings behind Key Food? I had a friend who lived there in the late 80s, when they were brand new. The walls were like cardboard, nothing felt solid at all.

If you're saying that they'll be worth that much so that they can be knocked down when 4th avenue is knocked down, maybe that's true.

But as individual townhouses (like this one at Atlantic Houses), they are not worth as much as nearby brownstones. If the market proves me wrong, it just seems like a sign that the market is at the Pets.com level of bubble-ness.

Posted by: Sloper at August 8, 2005 8:14 AM

OK. Let's talk open market. $1.5 mil can get you a lot more than these houses can deliver. There are places in Park Slope, Windsor Terrace, Carroll Gardens, and Cobble Hill that are much nicer, have more space, and provide more architectural detail. Enough with this ridiculous discussion. If you people are going to put forth an argument, at least have some knowledge of the rest of Brownstone Brooklyn. And while it is true that a parking lot will go for a lot, it is only because of the income generated? Would these properties generate $20k a month like these lots? Besides, ain't nobody but my paisonos have those properties anyway, and they ain't sellin'. C'mon.

Posted by: Court Street Johnny at August 8, 2005 8:44 AM

Once again people like Gumba Johnny of court street don't get the picture.Gumba take the cannoli out your mouth and read.I said this home has a parking space which many of the homes in the area do not.I said a parking space not a lot.It seems to me that Court Street Johnny fails to understand the english language due to too much vodaka in his marinera sauce.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 8, 2005 9:23 AM

The man was offered 1.3 million. He turned it down.Then had an offer of 1.4 million that fell through.1.5 million is not that far away.I believe he will get it and all you doubters will be put in your places,

Posted by: Anonymous at August 8, 2005 9:27 AM

Pure hubris to turn down $1.3, and I don't think the deal at $1.4 falling through is a good sign for the seller.

just one more frenzied last gasp. hiss...

www.nytimes.com/2005/08/08/opinion/08krugman.html?

Posted by: Sloper at August 8, 2005 9:58 AM

No way he'll get 1.5. I could believe 1.1 or 1.2, to somebody taking out a huge interest-only mortage.

Posted by: anonymous at August 8, 2005 10:50 AM

You guys really think this guy can't get his asking price?I see the writing on the wall and he will get it.He has done extensive work on the inside of this home.Before you sit there in judgement why not go and see the inside.He has done a truly amazing job.You really do feel a contry-esque feeling inside this home.All you doubters will see.Give the guy a month or two hell catch the big fish.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 8, 2005 11:10 AM

Deals fall through all the time in real estate.But just think there was 1.4 million on the table.There apparently is more room in the bubble.Good luck and when you get it have a great life.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 8, 2005 11:14 AM

The rents in the atlantic commons range from $1,400 to $2,000 a month for a 2 bedroom rental.That's not bad a bad investment people.The owners of these homes really got the best bang for the buck.I sense a bit of jealousy from some the comments on this board.In the words of P.T. Barnum "There's a sucker born every minute".Well folks theres a whole lot of suckers buying in Brooklyn.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 8, 2005 11:23 AM

The Village Of Atlantic Commons is a very well kept neighborhood.Once the Atlantic Terminal Projects and the two Mitchell Lama coops are gone the sky will be the limit.You will see these homes sell for near the 2 million dollar mark before all is said and done.

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August 4, 2005

HOTD: Fulton Street Newbie Asking Too Much

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