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June 20, 2005

Close Up on Cornices

cornice
When you are standing on the elevated platform on the Brooklyn-bound side of the Marcy Avenue stop, you are at about eye-level with the top floor of the four-story buildings that line Broadway. This provides an unusually close view of the cornices, some of which are quite interesting. This one in particular caught our eye because the fact that it is made of wood is so glaringly obvious. This got us thinking about what cornices were made out of over the years. We're hoping there are some architectural history buffs out there who know something about what cornices were constructed of over different periods. This is of particular interest to us because our house is missing its cornice, so at some point in the near future we'll want to get a replacement made.




Posted by Brownstoner at 9:44 AM | Comments (21)
Categories: Discussion

Comments

FWIW the cornice on my 1899 brick & limestone in Lefferts Manor is made of sheet metal which is the most common material for late 19th and early 20th century houses.I recall reading years ago(in "the Brownstoner"--no relation to this website).that these were stamped out in factories, much the way car bodies are made today.

Posted by: Robert Marvin at June 20, 2005 9:50 AM

The cornice of my Greek Revival is made of wood. And so is the cornice of the Federal-era house next door.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2005 10:00 AM

I have seen some excellent restorations done using fiberglass cornices. Pro's are that it looks just like the old stuff, is light weight, so is easy to lift and attach, and does not deteriorate at anything like the rate of metal or wood.

Con's are - well it is not a "Traditional Building Material". Any one have any other cons?


http://www.fiberglass-afi.com/fiberglass-cornice.htm

Posted by: ameraleed at June 20, 2005 10:47 AM

I have heard that fiberglas could be a great replacment material for cornice. It does not rot and rust and it super light and cheap to make.

http://www.kreysler.com/about/press/ct1-art.htm

They use to be "fake" (metal stamping) so fiberglass is very honest approach in this sence

Posted by: malymis at June 20, 2005 10:51 AM

The origin of this kind of detail can be traced to construction of the early wooden Greek temples. (Elements that are coming thru on the cornice use to be a wooden beams)
Later as Greeks moved to stone they carried on the same style (elements were not part of the construction but just a decoration)
And from ancient Rome thru renaissance to 19 century architect were coping and reinterpreting this style in different materials (stone, wood, metal, fiberglass)

Posted by: malymis at June 20, 2005 11:02 AM

The one on my house is metal. Can't say for certain is original but does look exactly like house next door.
I would guess house dates from 1850's.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2005 11:08 AM

I'm adding a page on Cornices this week!! wow so funny you posted this
I <3 Brooklyn cornices
we need a bumper sticker
http://disassociate.com/lost.html

Posted by: matthew at June 20, 2005 11:31 AM

Looking forward to it, Matthew!

Posted by: Brownstoner at June 20, 2005 12:39 PM

I saved an article in The NY Times last year about cornices knowing I'd need it one day. They were highlighting a company named Architectural Fiberglass Corp.
http://www.afcornice.com/

Posted by: rob at June 20, 2005 2:44 PM

i have seen metal ones in salvage shops

Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2005 3:20 PM

Replace your cornice as soon as possible it is not mearly decorative. As one restoration buff once said to me: "the cornice is the umbrella of your facade."

Posted by: GreenDog at June 20, 2005 4:40 PM

I attended that "Anatomy of a brownstone" class. One of the architects advocated using a fiberglass cornice if you are missing yours. Apparently they run about $3000 and never need paint and you can't tell it's fiberglass.

Posted by: pietro at June 20, 2005 5:27 PM

Generally, cornices were wood through about the 1870s, when the shift towards pressed metal began. Storefront cornices were usually wood or cast iron (not sheet metal).

Fiberglass and PVC are used as replacement materials now. You can tell the difference if you pay a little attention. Older fiberglass cornices suffer from UV degradation (apparently less of a problem now). A clear give away is the large caulk joints you almost always see in fiberglass cornices.

Browstoner - look at your neighbors to see what your cornice was. If your building was not part of a development, look around for buildings done by the same architect at the same time.

Posted by: Halden at June 20, 2005 9:33 PM

I've renovated 19th century buildings that featured (original) stone, wood, or metal cornices. Last year we did a huge renovation and facade restoration where we uncovered the remains of the original 1852 wood under a later (circa 1880's) metal cornice. After much deliberation, we took the cornice (and facade) back to wood and 1852. Talented craftspersons can mitigate concerns regarding traditional materials' durability- much of the cornice work on view today in cities is 100 plus years old. The fiberglass option, while plausible, is a nonstarter for me. Good luck either way and thanks for caring about 'the old stuff'.

Posted by: Dave Powers at June 21, 2005 4:04 AM

there's a metal cornice at "old moon chattel" (?) in williamsburg laying on the floor in the salvage place, i didn't check the price though. looked to be about 20' wide and seemed like they had restored it.

Posted by: Tony T at June 21, 2005 10:38 AM

It is a price issue. If fiberglass is cheper more durable and when it looks the same I would prefer it over the old school stuff.
Cornicle is hang so hight nobody can tell what is made of.
Banisters and stuff you can touch is a quite different thing i would never go to fiberglass.

Posted by: malymis at June 21, 2005 11:23 AM

If you are thinking about fiberglass, be sure to get the addresses of NYC properties that each company you're considering has done, and check them out in different lighting conditions. Some are very clearly plasticy-- others, its very hard to tell. It depends on the quality/ technique used for the outer layer (which also, incidentally, contains the bulk of the UV protection.)

Posted by: Naomi at June 22, 2005 8:02 PM

Some words about fiberglass.
In its simplest form, FRP (Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic) is a material system consisting of a plastic resin matrix, glass fiber reinforcement and suitable additives.

Mud and straw is an example of a form of composite; the mud acts as a resin matrix, while straw is the reinforcing fiber.
These composite materials are combined and processed by one of a number of methods to meet certain performance and appearance requirements as a finished component or composite.

Fiberglass allows for greater design flexibility previously prohibited by the limitations of traditional building materials.

Fiberglass is non-corrosive, strong, lightweight, maintenance free, and can be erected efficiently and economically. Per unit weight, fiberglass is among the strongest commercial materials available. Pound for pound, fiberglass is stronger than concrete, steel or aluminum.

If you want to know more about fiberglass please visit our website http://www.fiberglass-afi.com

Posted by: mario at July 21, 2005 2:38 AM

I own a brownstone that was poorly renovated. Cornices and other details have been replaced with aluminum siding. I checked out fiberglass cornices and the material cost is upwards of $2,500. I'm checking out Fiber Reinforced Polyurethane/Plastic, but I think it detetiorates faster. Anybody know about FRP?

Posted by: Lerrick Santos at September 4, 2005 10:47 PM

I'm part of a unique manufacturing company. We produce fiberglass cornice products as well as theme items, but it's all custom. We have either duplicated or custom build cornice on a few jobs in manhattan. 381 Park Ave. 170 5th Ave. 140 river side drive. the Fisk building, 30 central park south etc. When your ready I would like to bid on your cornice.

Posted by: Paul Romano at June 22, 2006 1:45 PM

The options for cornice include GFRC (glass fiber reinforced concrete) and FRP (fiberglass)

http://www.strombergarchitectural.com/products/cornice

Posted by: brad2009 at August 24, 2009 8:07 AM

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