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May 19, 2005
Park Slope Face-Off: You Be the Judge


Today two similarly priced houses in Park Slope go into head-to-head competition and you're the judge. What do you think is the better deal? Corcoran's 3-story "dream" brownstone on "one of the Slope's prettiest streets" for $1,750,000 or Warren Lewis' listing for a 4-story, 3-family "North Slope Gem" for $1,850,000? We know what we think, but we'll wait 'til later to weigh in.
2nd Street Dream [Corcoran]
North Slope Gem [Warren Lewis]
Comments
No brainer. Take the North Slope Gem hands down.
Posted by: Killian at May 19, 2005 10:29 AM
The Warren-Lewis has the parlor/kitchen/dining upstairs and bedroom down (on garden level)- that would be my preference....
and the 2nd rental makes it better financially too. Do we know what block its on?
Posted by: Anonymous at May 19, 2005 10:38 AM
definitely the North Slope Gem [Warren Lewis]
Posted by: Anonymous at May 19, 2005 10:41 AM
Funny how everyone is attracted to the "north" Slope house. Where north? Not in PS 321 I imagine. Is it the income that is so attractive? When you have more rentals you have more headaches. That income is also taxed at 40%. With a mulitfamily you have higher tax, stricter building codes and less leverage with your tenants. A two family is pretty much the same as a one family with building code, you only deal with one tenant. The other thing is 2nd Street is a GREAT block and in the 321 school district.
I honestly feel the 2 family is the better deal based on what I know about that street and the real value.
Posted by: tomq at May 19, 2005 10:49 AM
Good points about the rentals, but I still favor the North Slope house, with the caveat that it definitely depends on the block. Is it really the North Slope, or is it in that neverland between Park Slope and Boerum Hill?
Yes, 2nd Street is nice, but between 5th & 6th still isn't prime. The 2nd Street house is small, the tin ceiling in the living room is a bit strange, and the house overall seems smaller, though I'm not sure what the exact specs are. The North Slope house seems to be in somewhat better shape, and the garden, deck and pergola are a nice touch.
Downside for families is that the North Slope house is probably outside the P.S. 321 school district.
Posted by: Park Sloper at May 19, 2005 11:13 AM
I like the way Corcoran gives more info - as in floorplan and address. So can easily indentify the + and -. From pics certainly looks very nice...and great about schools. Minus is long walk to subway, need to walk thru potential 2nd bedroom to get to bathroom upstairs.
I don't know what less 'leverage' you have with tenants on 3 (or 4 family) - but true bldg codes are stricter. Specious to say rental income taxed at 40% - only profit is taxed at whatever bracket you are in - and there would be greater deduction to show less profit(or greater loss)
with the 3 family (depreciation of asset is major
consideration when 'running' your numbers).
Without address or floorplan of North-slope difficult to compare. Also looks great - generally much better transportation options.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 19, 2005 11:13 AM
If you go to the Park Slope listings for 4/1/05 there are several comments about the North Slope house.
They were not very kind about the house which is on Prospect Place,or Warren Lewis.Sadly I have to agree with them on all counts.Read and decide for your self.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 19, 2005 12:27 PM
Saw the north slope house a couple times. it's on prospect place between flatbush and 6th. it's in great condition on the outside but it's never really been renovated on the inside. it has been very well maintained, but never very expensively. stairs slant quite a bit etc. Very nice deck and garden as well. It's a nice place overall Don't know aobu thte other one.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 19, 2005 12:42 PM
two rentals are much better if you pay morgadge no doubt, you will not get tax in this case plus derpreciation could be a factor.
I have seen both and 2nd street is smaller nicer much better details and i prefer location it is nicer block. Prospect place location is more conviniant to subway but not that nice block and house inside is not that great i kind of hate it.I would go with 2nd. but i would have to do some numbers to have full picture. Anyway i am buying in Clinton becouse i could get 5 full stories for this price in prime location on the great street with much better details.
Posted by: malymis at May 19, 2005 1:01 PM
One more comment only thing i liked about prospect place was really great deck with great garden view.
Posted by: malymis at May 19, 2005 1:03 PM
A better comparison is between this 90 Prospect Place house for $1.85 v. the Prospect Heights Charmer (181 Prospect Pl) for $1.67. These are exactly 2 blocks apart on the same street and the access to amenities is totally comparable. Is the claim to "North Slope" really worth an extra $200k+? I'd go Prospect Heights all the way.
Posted by: anonymous at May 19, 2005 1:17 PM
There is snow on the stoop - so must not be the
greatest product on the market. Must be some drawback
beside of course the hefty $1.85m pricetag.
If its truly 90 Prospect - shows up on propshark
as a '2 family' - 20'x45' so 10% less per sq. ft. than 2nd Street.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 19, 2005 2:25 PM
I am not sure but when i look at this proberty some time ago it was 1.6 somthing .... and i was thinking it was not worth asking price.
Posted by: malymis at May 19, 2005 2:43 PM
I've seen both these houses and have to say, it's a really tough call. For pure square footage and the trains, I'd go with 90 Prospect Place. But you can hear the subway. Both of these houses have been renovated and not in a way that you could by any stretch call historical restoration but both with dark stained new wood floors and details are new, not original, for the most part. 2nd between 5th & 6th isn't all that, but neither is Prospect between 5th & 6th. Both yards are lovely, Prospect is South but dark with high trees, 2nd has a koi pond.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 19, 2005 3:11 PM
test
Posted by: Anonymous at May 19, 2005 3:46 PM
If it's 90 Prospect, I understand it went into contract several months ago, but then fell through (I don't know why), which explains the snow in the photos. It hasn't been on the market the whole time.
Posted by: Tim at May 19, 2005 5:38 PM
Of 90 Prospect, I believe that when it was on the market previously, it was at $1.75m. Then it went into contract, something went wrong and it came back at $1.85. That's cajones.
Tony
Posted by: tony at May 19, 2005 6:57 PM
i have to echo the sentiment that Pros Hts (181 Prospect) is still a far better value than eithe SLope house. When we moved to PH in 1999, the disparity was gaping -- what cost 1.2M on a 7/8 block in center slope was 700K on Park or Sterling (the two A-list streets in PH). The gap has narrowed considerably (something like $2.5M - 1.9M), but the disparity in quality of life has been all but eliminated
Posted by: anonymous at May 19, 2005 8:49 PM
My boyfriend lives on 2nd street btwn 5th & 6th ave. The location (as far as access to 5th ave, proximity to 321, 7th ave and the park) is great, but calling that street one of "the slope's prettiest" is laying it on a bit thick. One side of the street is brownstones but the other side is large apartment buildings some of which are a bit run down. 1.75 is completely nuts for that house. there's absolutely no way it will sell for nearly that much. classic corcoran insanity.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 19, 2005 11:06 PM
Subways, people, subways. Whichever is closer, wins.
Posted by: Chuck at May 20, 2005 9:03 AM
North Slope house hands down. 4 floors not 3 floors. 2 rentals not one rental. Sixth avenue in the name streets is more charming than sixth ave in the numbered streets. As for the PS 321 school district do you think someone who spends 1.7 or 1.8 on a house sends their children to public school.
There are negatives to this North Slope house such as proximity to Flatbush Avenue. In some houses you can feel the train rumbling (similar to 9th St.)
This house is in North Slope not Prospect Heights, (which is on the other side of Flatbush Ave) or Boerum Hill (which is west of Fourth Ave).
Posted by: Limestone at May 20, 2005 11:40 AM
um, guys. if you have 2 kids in public school (ps321) that saves you 40K a year or payments on another 500K in mortgage. one of the reasons we haven't bought in bed stuy etc is for that reason. not that we could afford a 1.8 million dollar house either. . ..
Posted by: Anonymous at May 20, 2005 1:24 PM
The reason people pay up to live in the p.s.321 zone,is they do not want to have to pay 31,000 plus per child on top of a 1.7 mil house.Thats the reason i moved into P.S.321 area 8 years ago and it is still the reason people buy in today.All of my neighbors send their childern to 321 unless the child needs special services.I also have a friend who is about to spend 3.5 mil. on a house so he doesn't have to come up the extra 93,000+ for his 3 kids each year for the next 10 years.He refused to look at any other part of Brooklyn because of the cost of private schools in Brooklyn.And Brooklyn private schools ars still much cheaper than Manhattan.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 20, 2005 1:48 PM
Leaving aside the issue of whether PS 321 is the only school in Park Slope you can send a child to without "having to" use a private school: you don't get the savings for 10 years. You get them for 6 (K-5). 7 if you count pre-K but you are by no means guaranteed to get in to pre-K. The zoned middle school, MS 51, is very good, but it has a much broader catchment area. And middle school is a whole different ballgame -- you're not guaranteed admission, and not all PS 321 kids get taken there.
Of course you're paying the extra mortgage for more than 6 years, unless you move immediately after the kids leave PS 321. (Or -- as many do -- you move into the district, put your kid in 321, then move again but leave the kid in the school.) Maybe it's still worth it, but whether you number the savings per child at $20K or $31K per year, you're only multiplying them by 6. In case that matters in anyone's calculations.
Posted by: linusvanpelt at May 20, 2005 3:36 PM
is p.s. 321 the ONLY public school in brooklyn that is even remotely acceptable? if that is the case and I assume it is because it is the only school i ever hear about then something is terribly wrong with brooklyn... how can there only be one school zone that is acceptable and why don't property tax values at the very least secure some sort of quality school district as they do in other cities... certainly not that that is even fair but i am looking for a starting point to understand why public schools in brooklyn are all places you wouldn't want to send your children- where does property tax money go anyway? this is probably a discussion for another blog but I have always wondered why public education works this way here- basically that it doesn't work at all.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 20, 2005 3:39 PM
Property taxes in Brooklyn are insanely low, that is why they don't pay for good public schools. Look at some of the $3 million houses on the market - their taxes are only $4K/year. That is a joke. Most places with really good public schools (West Village, Tribeca, the nicer suburbs in Westchester and New Jersey, etc...) have taxes of $20K and above for $1 million dollar homes. The taxes in Brooklyn have not yet caught up to the market values of the homes, that is the issue.
Posted by: Anonymous at May 20, 2005 6:20 PM
NYC levies income tax and does not rely as heavily on property taxes as ohter municipalities.
Also property taxes in NYC are not earmarked for
schools as a major portion of R.E. taxes in ohter area.
To suggest that schools are better in other NYC neighborhoods such as Tribeca or W. Village because of higher r.e. taxes is misinformed. All those taxes go to city not to neighborhood public schools.
Also PS321 is not the only good public elementary
school in Brooklyn - but many of the others are in other very expensive neighborhoods or in areas
that Brownstoner readers would not consider fashionable enough.
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