« Q&A: Lockwood's Favorite Townhouse Style? Wednesday Photo of the Day »

May 24, 2005

HOTD: Mid-Sloper with F.A.R. Out The Wazoo

JoralemonWe're curious to know what people think about this brick for-sale-by-owner (though this owner has a real estate license) on 15th Street between 4th and 5th Avenues. There was open house last weekend (and another one coming up) so hopefully some of you have been inside. At the $1.4 million asking price, this 1880 Federal home comes in at around $400 a foot. Cheap for Upper Slope, not for Lower Slope (and this is somewhere in the middle, right?). Either way, it looks to us like there might be a development play here: It's a wide lot (25' x 100') and the FAR is 2.43 which implies there a total of more than 6,000 square feet allowed as-of-right. The existing structure is only 3,600 square feet. If you back out even $100 a square foot for the remaining buildable, this starts to look pretty attractive, no?
188 15th Street [House on 15th Street.com]




Comments

This is the South Slope. There was a time Park Slope ended at 9th Street. I don't know where people say it ends now, but anything below Prospect Expressway is definately NOT Park Slope. So south of 9th to me is the South Slope.
This house is beautiful and it seems like a great price. The developement issue is probably because the zoning near 4th Ave and on some side streets allows for a certain amount of commercial developement and has for a long time. I know on Union Street in Park Slope between 5th and 6th there are and could be more commercial buildings. Anyway this house is a great price for the location. I would only be wary of exposed brick and the fact it has 3 exposures. This would make it VERY cold in the winter (no insulation). These old places have no insulation and I know ours gets real cold in the winter.

Posted by: Tom at May 24, 2005 12:26 PM

This house is cute and probably the right price. Nothing really has to be done to it (the owners unit is very nice) and it has rental income. Note, however, that the 3600 square feet is including the basement, so it is really about 3000 sq ft unless you plan on making the basement into living space. The basement is currently concrete floors, mechanicals, etc... with a playroom, but it does have windows in the back so you could do something with it.

Another negative is that the lot next door, which had some sort of old commercial building on it, was just sold to a development company (check propertyshark), so the sun coming in from the side windows will probably be short lived and anyone buying it will probably have to deal with construction noises in the near future.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 24, 2005 12:54 PM

I went to california for a few years and came back and brooklyn is gone and thats it. the spirit is shot. I used to rent. renting was the ny way. only dopey people bought in. in fact, there were lawsuits against landlords who tried to force conversion. I guess, in the end, someone won.

I was born in NYC in 1947 and moved to Brooklyn in 1952 and never left except ten years ago to get married and enjoy a little year round warmth. and this is what I got when I got home:

I got gotz. we couldn't afford brooklyn. we couldn't afford anything.
so we stayed with our friends who, along with everyone else from the boroughs, moved out to long island. btw, long island is insane - filled with people who hate their lives but love that they live in dumpy houses that are worth a half a million. it's enough to make you puke.

who DID this to my city?

Posted by: c at May 24, 2005 1:58 PM

Funny, you wonder if 1.4 is too much hardly question the validity of 1.9 in non-prime Fort Greene.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 24, 2005 2:02 PM

Isn't FAR of 2.43 pretty standard? So almost all
homes are potentially able to add-on.
Considering there are few houses in that price range on the market probably is good price
(if you're daring enough to think that current values will hold).
Do a search on Corcoran - for $1.2 to 1.6m - with at least 2 units in PkSlope, BoerumHill, ProspectHts, CarrollGardens,
Cobble Hill. Almost nothing.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 24, 2005 2:47 PM

As far as FAR goes, this is a bigger than normal lot (25' wide) and a smaller house than most, so there's more buildable FAR left over...

Posted by: Brownstoner at May 24, 2005 2:56 PM

you cant compare 404 Vanderbilt, one block outsiode the FG historic district with 15th b/w 4 & 5, which is far more marginal; AND plenty of posts questioned 1.9M for 404 Vanderbilt -- which has far better transportation, shopping and a whole floor more actually built

Posted by: Anonymous at May 24, 2005 4:17 PM

The lot is wider, but I'm not sure how you attractively add five feet on to the side, even if you were so inclined. But I'm not an architect. If you're not adding on, house sounds overpriced to me. At $1.4M, I'd expect a Slope house of this size to be better located -- more to the east or the north or both. As it is, this is the in the very corner of what can be called Park Slope, and a none too attractive block as I recall.

Posted by: linusvanpelt at May 24, 2005 4:19 PM

It will be interesting to see what happens with that part of the South Slope. A number of condos are going in, and houses are turning for higher-and-higher prices. At the same time, 5th Avenue south of 9th Street is still dominated by dollar stores and the like, although hipper bars -- Commonwealth, Buttermilk -- and a great coffee house -- Cafe Regular -- are beginning to invade. Every month a couple more old stores are losing their leases. The question is what will replace them. What the area really needs are a couple of decent restaurants.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 24, 2005 5:18 PM

You should have seen the block/nabe 8 years ago when we moved in. It has changed dramatically. Back then we were definitely on the fringe. As the owner of 188, I appreciate the comments in this forum. Just to answer a few of the questions that have come up here: *As far as exposed brick is concerned, it has been a non-issue (we are only talking about two rooms). The gas-fired steam boiler gets all 3 floors (and the basement toasty in a hurry). Brick is an excellent insulator, poorly sealed windows and doors are more likely to be the cause of substantial heat loss (though not in this building). *The nabe is now dubbed the South South Slope. That designation unofficially extends from 3rd Ave to 9th Ave from the south side of 15th St to and following the Prospect Expressway. *I wouldn't extend the house 5 feet to the lot line. From an aesthetic and practical standpoint, it just wouldn't make sense. I would on the other hand go back 10' and up with a set back 4th floor. *As far as next door is concerned, only the guy/company that bought the place knows what's coming. Hope for the best, (that is why I am not promoting the views - from the 3rd floor: Staten Island, NY Harbor, Ports of Bayonne & Newark. From the roof: the Verrazanno Bridge, the Statue of Liberty & Jersey City, but you can and will still see lower Manhattan). Yes construction noise would be a drag, but construction is "supposed" to take place between the hours of 7-3. So if you are working this shouldn't be a huge problem. *As far as the basement and it's square footage are concerned, it isn't a dungeon, we use it. The girls play down there and I have a shop. It's also only 2 feet below grade in the rear so windows could be punched in along the side (another reason not to build there), the rear could be opened up in a great way to the yard, and/or you cloud duplex down and take advantage of the extra space that way. *As far price is concerned, I consulted with friend who as an appraiser. He took a conservative look at what numbers might be appropriate. Unlike a lot of appraisers he refuses to pump up numbers to meet the expections of his clients (it has cost him some business, but in the end he prefers to make an honest living). He did not think that $425 a sqr. ft was excessive. Corcoran on the other hand has vacilated from $1.25mil to $1.5mil over the course of two weeks...I just don't trust their playbook (their methods may work, but I personally don't like to do business that way - sealed bids, high pressure, ACT QUICKLY!?! bad karma...who wins? the broker that's who - 6% puhleeze). *Finally, Brownstoner, yes, the lot is a wonderful size, but so is the house (floorplans will be posted shortly). Stop by on Sunday and check it out. Again I thank you all for your comments and feedback. Rock on B'stoner.

Posted by: David at May 24, 2005 6:58 PM

ps: The nicest thing we encountered at our Open House this past Sunday, was the fact that everyone commented on how nice the house was, especially compared to what else was out there. Out of about 25 couples that stopped by only one remarked that price seemed a little high.

Posted by: David at May 24, 2005 7:06 PM

I've been following this site since the blogspot days when it was basically just BigBubba and ElectricGreek from the Craigslist forum commenting. But I think I can say: now that it seems to be the norm to have the sellers themselves comment on almost any house you post about, I think you've made it.

You may not be making a fortune off this site (god bless you if you are), but it looks like you're on to something, and it looks like you have a serious following. Congratulations. It'll be interesting to see where you take it from here.

-jk

Posted by: jk at May 24, 2005 9:53 PM

Exposed Brick on an exterior wall is damn cold. Most houses are attatched and exposed brick touches another house so you have no heat issues. The brick conducts the cold on an exterior wall. That cold transfers to the inside of the house. If you had plumbing inside an exterior wall the pipes would freeze. It happens all the time. That means an exterior wall with exposed brick is damn cold in the winter.

Posted by: Tom at May 24, 2005 10:26 PM

Tom, what you saying about bricks conducting the cold is correct, but the actual design of a brick building contains both a structural brick wall and a facade brick wall. There is a gap between the the facade and structural bricks. It is this a gap that acts as the insulator. And while some of the cold does transfer, it is substantially lessened by the second layer of bricks. I would agree with you that a third exposure could be a problem, but my boiler cranks, and keeping warm inside when 20 degrees outside has not been an issue. I would say that when we have those 5 degree nights, I would imagine any house is going to feel a bit on the cold side, but it still has not been an issue for us.

There is a woman on 13th street using a geothermal heating system, I wonder what her winter nights must be like? Cheers.

Posted by: David at May 24, 2005 11:11 PM

Thanks, JK. Not making any $ yet, but it would be a dream to quit the full time job and go brownstoner 24/7!

Posted by: Brownstoner at May 25, 2005 7:59 AM

What kind of full time job is that where you can afford to take the time to post stories on Brownstoner all day long, plus it pays enough to buy a 5 story brownstone and do a high end gut renovation??? We should all have such cushy full time jobs.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 25, 2005 1:22 PM

My guess is, it's similar to the kind of cushy jobs that allow the rest of us to read blogs all day long. It's not like the guys washing dishes 10 hours a day have Internet at their sinks.

Posted by: linusvanpelt at May 25, 2005 1:41 PM

Good grief Linus!

Posted by: Anonymous at May 25, 2005 2:49 PM


The guy complaining about exposed brick walls probably lives in a trailer.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 25, 2005 5:12 PM

I'm the managing partner at Orrichio Anderson Realty, Inc. My partner, Anna Anderson, and I have been brokers in Park Slope and vicinity for the past eighteen years. I think if you view our site you will see that we market unique (usually exclusive)listings.

I didn't see a way to contact the editors so I assume they will read this and consider linking our site to Brownstoner. Our web address is www.orrandrlty.com

Anthony Orrichio
Lic. Real Estate Broker

Posted by: Anthony Orrichio at May 25, 2005 11:58 PM

So, how did the open houses go? Did you get any offers at your asking price? Do tell.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 29, 2005 7:40 PM

David

I just got a call from urban view realty on this house. Did you give up trying to sell it yourself, or figure that you just wanted the extra help? And how do you figure out commissions in such a situation?

Tony

Posted by: Tony at June 1, 2005 2:47 PM

Tony, we have not given up trying to sell it ourselves, I am just widening my exposure a bit. I have it out as an open listing (as so much of what's out there is really crap or "needs TLC" fr only $1.295 mil...yeah right), but I am not broadcasting it to every office on 5th & 7th Aves. It just becomes a freakin' carnival of phone calls and brokers pimping and whoring for the listing...and it's a lot of work keeping the house "open house ready" on short notice (2 kids and 3 pug dogs keep us very busy on top of other small projects). I have spoken with a few brokers/offices that I have a some kind of a relationship with. As far as a commission is concerned I'm paying 2.5% (Corcoran is working me hard for the listing, and for only 5-6%...less than 6% and your listing will be flagged (read: George Costanza) and they say their brokers will pass on the lesser % listing and only show their client the 6% listing...nice way to do business and serve your clients). With amount and quality of inventory out there (along with everyone and their mother being an agent these days, I don't think pays to be too selective or greedy. My number has enough breathing room to cover it along with the dreaded transfer tax & RPS tax (total is around 2 1/8% of the sale price I believe). The Open Houses have gone very well with lots of traffic (even on Memorial Day Sunday). Anyone who appeared during those two Sundays and now shows up via a broker is free to enjoy the tour but no commission would be paid as they have already seen the house through me and my advertising. If the buyer and/or their agent has a problem with that, they are also free not to buy the property, and I prefer to deal with ethical people, so I hope this won't be an issue. My license has been with Urban View Realty for the past two years and they, unlike many in this industry have an ethical center (not everyone might agree with that statement, but they do) and will only see to it thet they earn a commission that that was in fact due them and not otherwise. All the best. David. PS: SHAMELESS PLUG: OPEN HOUSE SUNDAY FROM 1-4PM

Posted by: David at June 2, 2005 8:06 PM

I see you have an accepted offer. Are you willing to let us know whether you got your asking price?

Posted by: Anonymous at June 9, 2005 8:42 AM

Has anybody ever checked to confirm that Mr. Bandler has a R.E. license?

Posted by: Anonymous at July 26, 2005 11:44 AM

Interesting information about debt consolidation online. You can get help or get some advice.

Posted by: debt consolidation online at May 26, 2006 6:48 AM

Interesting information about debt consolidation online. You can get help or get some advice.

Posted by: debt consolidation online at May 26, 2006 6:50 AM

Interesting information about debt consolidation online. You can get help or get some advice.

Posted by: debt consolidation online at May 26, 2006 6:52 AM

sildenafil citrate http://beam.to/sildenafil-citrate/ buy citrate sildenafil http://beam.to/buy-citrate-sildenafil/ citrate generic sildenafil http://beam.to/citrate-generic-sildenafil/ citrate sildenafil tablet http://beam.to/citrate-sildenafil-tablet/ Sildenafil citrate http://sildenafil.myfreeforum.org/

Posted by: buy sildenafil citrate at June 29, 2006 10:25 PM

spironolactone 50mg http://spironolactone-50mg.blogspot.com/

Posted by: spironolactone at June 29, 2006 11:49 PM

Post a comment

Please be patient while your comment is published. It may take a moment.

Latest Restaurant Additions