More Protest, Violence, Arrests in Flatbush

flatbush-police-031413
After a peaceful vigil Tuesday, police and protesters clashed Wednesday in East Flatbush over the killing Saturday of 16-year-old Kimani Gray by police. Reportedly an officer was hit in the head with a brick, a police car windshield was smashed, and dozens of protesters were arrested. Unconfirmed reports online said NYPD had declared the area a “frozen zone,” meaning transit was shut down and no one was allowed in. The autopsy results also came through Wednesday, revealing Gray was shot seven times. Police said Gray aimed a pistol at them Saturday before they shot him; witnesses said he was fiddling with his waistband but did not see a gun; the boy’s family said he did not have a gun. Gray had an arrest record, but reports he was a member of a gang were not confirmed.
Anger in East Flatbush Persists Over Teenager’s Killing by the Police [NY Times]
Officer Smashed in Face With Brick, 50 Arrested in Brooklyn Protest [NY Post]
Flatbush Teen Kimani Gray Died From Gunshot Wounds [NY Post]
Dozens Arrested as Protesters Clash With Police at Rally for Shot Teen [DNAinfo]
Photo by DNAinfo

40 Comment

  • agreed about the pic, I would not be strolling around that area looking for a good picture. Sad story no matter the outcome. If he had a gun and was in a gang = sad if he was not in a gang and had no gun = sad.

  • The police officers in question are black.

    Notice how the dialogue has changed, and now the claimed injustice isn’t the shooting over the weekend, but rather the general conditions over the years.

    Kinda shows the opportunism and hypocricy inherent in such incidents, because you know the narrative would be very different if the officers were anything but African American.

    • Unfortunately those narratives are all to familiar within the black community remember Emitt Till, Rodney King, Amadou Diallo, etc…but you have proven your point not all white police officers are bad people and opportunistic race baiting should be left to individuals like Al Sharpton whom many dismiss as a racist.

    • Really?! So the fact that a teenager was several times, three times in the back, means the outrage of police brutality is somehow negated? The use of “opportunism” and “hypocricy” tells everything needed.

    • cuentame – it may have taken away the “dialogue” for people who see racism in their cup of coffee every morning – thank god.

      However – the schism between the NYPD and certain parts of the community – transcends race (of the cops,) it always has.

  • pig three

    I have read an interesting dynamic in the threads regarding this story. There is a repeating theme about the skepticism regarding the integrity of the police version of the story due to past events involving police shootings and abuses of power.

    Are any of the police officers from these past events involved in this case?

    There has been no lists of past teen/gun violence cases. I see time and time again that this would be considered stereotyping or racial profiling.
    This seems to be the argument against the current stop & frisk policy.

    If the police and joe citizen are supposed to give each individual the benefit of the doubt without the influence of past events, shouldn’t it work both ways?

    or, perhaps, its just not possible.

  • Havemeyer

    Anyone live up there who can let me know how it is? Husband’s twentysomething cousin lives at about ground zero for this. Not sure if I should be worried about her or not.

  • Bus service down Flatbush Ave. on the B41 has been disrupted since Sunday. I think the buses are running but very delayed. I’plan to skirt the area for the time being.

    I saw footage on the news of some of the neighborhood “protests.” Disgusting that “protest” needs to include beating up people in a Rite Aid and knocking over shelf and throwing produce all over the place at a Green Grocer…. The footage also showed some older church people who looked utterly embarrassed at that behavior.

  • The protesters should be protesting the Black on Black violence that is rampant in the 67 precinct, not the death of a gun wielding teenager by cops patrolling to protect the community.

    • dittoburg

      Given the reported race of the undercover cops, they are protesting black on black violence.

    • and they should protest the guns brought into those neighborhoods by non-blacks.

      • no-permits

        “and they should protest the guns brought into those neighborhoods by non-blacks.”

        who do you think brings the guns into these neighborhoods??? white kids from park slope?

        • who do you think brings the guns into these neighborhoods??? white kids from park slope?

          its not far fetched…its certainly not the felons from these neighborhoods. Don’t we have back ground checks that would have prevented a 3 time felon like the young black gentleman who was killed from purchasing a gun legally.

    • argy – It sounds so simple – your narrative. What if I were to tell you that there are those types of rallies against “black on black” violence all the time, it’s just the Media chooses not cover it.

      This is not about this kid…As you implied with your “blacks kill each all the time” narrative – who cares.

      We are blessed to live in a city, that has gotten “safer” to the point where no-one does a double take anymore – at white girls walking their dogs @12 am in Crown Heights or Bed Stuy.

      College educated, 6 figure couples – off all races, who couldn’t leave the city fast enough – 20 years ago, are now tripping over themselves to buy half-baked brownstones, to raise their kids in the City.

      I’ve lived in this City long enough to remember the “dark days” of crime. Less crime means higher rents and home prices, more places “to have brunch.” And god knows – we don’t want another “Chicago”

      I, together with long time New Yorkers of all races – over 35, with the help of the editorial boards, made up by white men (who’s kids kids aren’t being stopped,) and politicians, wary of being called the “next Dinkins” aka soft on crime – have decided it is OK to take away the 4th amendment rights of an entire population of young teenagers and adults.

      Who cares if white kids on the UES, can carry entire bricks of weed in their backpacks on their way to prep school, whilst minority kids in the Bronx get arrested and put through the system over a dime bag. Life isn’t fair.

      We have told an entire generation of kids that they should accept being stopped and frisked by rude cops. We, from the Mayor downwards, have told an entire generation of cops, that they can do whatever – to these kids, short of killing them (too much of a distraction) – just as long as those crime stats stay low.

      Let’s try to dismiss these “riots” as opportunistic hooliganism by poorly raised kids, as typical double standard pops at hard working cops “trying to keep us safe” from “thugs” like Kimani Gray – fanned by dubious “community activists.” and “white radicals.”

      Let’s hope this ends by Friday.

      Let’s hope it is NOT a generation of young people, finally saying they have had enough, because I want to go to brunch on Sunday. That’s all I care about.

      • Wish I could like this post twice, crownlfc.

      • Thank you, Crown. Just thank you. This whole incident has been so painful. But, typically, I find the ensuing discussion on anything involving race and class on Brownstoner to be even more painful.

        There was a time , way back in the “olden days” of the Civil Rights Movement, when I felt we were really making some progress in this country on race relations. Fast forward to the new millennium and the election of a Black pres twice over and surely a whole lot of us now think we’ve made great strides in being better humans of every stripe and color. Truth be told, we really have come a long way from the days of slavery, lynchings, legal segregation, Jim Crow, etc. Heck, now we’ve got the “progress” story of the Obamas and the rise of our own Black gentry right here in Brownstone Brooklyn! Gee, maybe we should all be happy and stop bitchin’ about poor Black folk ’cause now we’ve got proof that there’s equal opportunity for all and the job of civil rights is done. Not.

        The irony is that, with the increasing income equality gap and other class and race-based social disparities, we look like we’re moving backward. Meanwhile, the masses are suffering all over and tensions are rising everywhere. But, it’s especially those who are scrambling at the bottom of the barrel in places like East Flatbush, East New York, Brownsville, Sheepshead Bay, Coney Island (and, yes, even my beloved PLG), who are getting hit the hardest — and not just by bullets. But who notices that? Or cares? Especially since these are community containment areas for the criminals and deserved have-nots of that “Other Brooklyn” while this here is a blog where the most serious news of the day is which properties have recorded the highest selling prices in the borough. Maybe that explains why, when community members of this “Other Brooklyn” even dare to protest their conditions, it’s the whole of them — not just the looting minority that “rioted” at Rite Aid — that get trashed as “opportunists” and “hypocrits” who elect “thugs” like Jumaane Williams to represent them.

        At the end of the day, none us have all the facts as to what really happened in that encounter between 16-year old Kimani Gray and several Black and Latino plain clothed police officers on a street in East Flatbush this past Saturday night. Even the witnesses to the scene are in dispute as to whether the decedent had a gun and pointed it or was merely fumbling with the waistline of his pants. But we do know that the masses who came out to protest in a peaceful candlelight vigil did not participate in a riot. We also know that Gray’s family has condemned the actions of those who resorted to looting and violence.

        Meanwhile, the rest of us get to make snap judgments as to the integrity of the police and/or the worthiness of the people of East Flatbush from the comfort and safety of our keyboards as if this is all some kind of entertainment. Especially when I look at some of the remarks which have been posted here, I wonder just how far it is on this civil rights-human rights thing we have really come.

  • Having lived in L.A. during the Rodney King riots, this neighborhood really needs to avoid any escalation of these mini riots, especially the looting. Life will get even tougher especially for the decent people in the area, if business owners decide it just isn’t worth being there anymore.

    It was almost laughable when people in L.A. complained that they cant get groceries or goods anymore, angry that businesses weren’t rebuilding.

  • minard

    shooting a 16-year old seven times is pretty shocking no matter what.
    the kid was sixteen and the cops were plain-clothes.
    a terrible thing.

    • daveinbedstuy

      What do you propose the cops do when he drew a gun on them????

      I believe 1-2 bullets should be enough but that’s not the point.

    • This isnt that many shots when you think about it, and hear experts talk about what its like in this sort of situation.

      It’s night and a gun is pointed at you. You’re life is on the line. You dont shoot 1 shot, wait to see if it hit, and if the guy doesnt still shoot back. You shoot to kill, and a handgun isnt very accurate, so you fire a burst at the mass (i’ve heard silly comments about why didnt they just shoot his foot). If 2 cops are firing, then 3 shots per cop hitting him in a matter of a second or 2 isnt very extreme.

  • pig three

    have any of the commenters regarding the number of bullets ever been in the situation of shoot or be shot?

    If not, I think you should stfu.

  • daveinbedstuy

    And i’m very much in favor of shoot to kill when ANYONE draws on a cop.

  • daveinbedstuy

    “What if I were to tell you that there are those types of rallies against “black on black” violence all the time, it’s just the Media chooses not cover it.”

    This is true.

  • HansDelbruck

    Dnk, that was a good one! Sgt. Hulka would be proud.

  • crownflc – despite your populist rant, the greatest beneficiaries of the reduction in crime is not brunch goers or ‘hypocritical’ 6 figure college educated couples who are now staying in NYC.

    The greatest beneficiary of the reduction in crime, (even factoring in the ‘unfairness’ of the tactics) by FAR are the TENS of THOUSANDS of kids of color who are now ALIVE, but who wouldn’t have been if NYC hadn’t addressed the crime problem as aggressively as it has.

    If these kids were in Chicago, or Philadelphia or Newark, or St Louis or Baltimore or,or, or, or….THEYD BE DEAD!

    • brklyn – you’re too right: whether its shoving a 3rd term down people’s throat, or unilaterally regulating how much soda they can drink – why don’t “these people” understand – (even factoring in the ‘unfairness’ of the tactics) it’s for their own good. It’s doesn’t affect us – why should we care. Let’s do brunch.

      • crownlfc you can be as glib as you want – you can knock down all the straw men that you create; but it isn’t going to change the reality that NYC is a FAR safer place for the very children you (falsely) claim to care about, then just about anywhere else in this country.

        • brklyn – I’m not sure if your conscience is bothering you, or you need to read my original post twice but again, I 100% agree with you….New York is indeed far “safer” than it has ever been.

          I don’t claim [falsely or otherwise] to care about any kids – you do, with your “Giuliani babies.”

          Like most in this city the last 12 years, all I have ever cared about, is my “safety” and my “business” – both which have flourished under Bloomberg’s reign.

          After all, I don’t care that my lord and savior – Obama, uses drones to kill US citizens without due process, or my country holds people for years in perpetuity, without trial. Yes – it bothers me some, the chickens will come home to roast one day but as long as I feel safe now, it’s sooo worth it.

          So what, if the NYPD rudely and unconstitutionally stops and searches 10′s of thousands of innocent people every year – whether it lowers crime or not? I, you, the Mayor, and most New Yorkers couldn’t be bothered – no Newark, West Philly, or Baltimore here.

          What I am concerned about however – is that one day, the seething resentment and mistrust of ALL cops, that have been simmering for years in certain parts of this City, due to stop and frisk, will explode.

          An incident that should be taken at face value: Hero cops shoot perp with gun dead – isn’t – in certain parts of Flatbush. We can take it as a wake up call or hope, wish, and pray that it’s just a bunch of “thugs” trying to get free candy, this time.

  • USGrant

    minard, what was he showing off? aiming his gun at the two men? do you mean he was “showing” that he would shoot them, but wasn’t really going to do it? how do we know he was just showing off? I don’t understand how we know this. it sounds like he aimed a gun at two men. wasn’t it possible he was going to shoot them? this is a really sad case on all sdes, but I dont understand how we can be sure of the kid’s motives at this point (if ever) – all we can really be sure about are his actions.

  • dittoburg

    ” whether its shoving a 3rd term down people’s throat”

    Just FYI, he was voted in, by the voting people of the city, by popular vote. Thats democracy. Term-limits are counter-democratic. Voting to limit democracry (like term-limits) is permitted in a democracy, but don’t go pretending that people choosing by popular vote the winner is having the winner shoved down their throats.

    Red herring.

    • @ ditto – Oh, right – just like Chavez was. Instead of a referendum, he decided to meet in a shady back room with a perfume heir and the publishers of the city’s newspapers – together, with the tacit blessing of Quinn, then outspent his less than stellar opponent 10-1, 8 years on the job, and barely got half the vote. You have a naive and simplistic view of democracy. If congress were term limited – think of how much more representative it would be?