Occupy Protests Barclays as Jay-Z Debuts


The Illuminator, the Occupy group that does projections, hit Barclays last night with messages decrying “eminent domain abuse” and “crony capitalism.” (Last week, the Illuminator was in Kensingston to support the workers at Golden Farm grocery with the slogan “Justice for Felix.”) Occupy and other groups are gearing up for protests tonight and over the weekend, as Barclays prepares to host its first event, a Jay-Z concert, Friday night. The New York Times has marked the opening of Barclays with a lengthy front-page article today about Bruce Ratner, the history of the project, and the controversy surrounding it. The Wall Street Journal noted that Brooklyn Nets owner Mikhail Prokhorov and his sister have donated $1 million to the nearby Brooklyn Academy of Music. As for the protests, starting at 7 pm tonight, a candlelight vigil will circle the area twice, and the Occupy Guitarmy will lead the group in song after, to mark the start of the weekend “occupation.” At a press conference Friday at 11 am, local residents will speak about the impact of Barclays on their lives. From noon to 4 Friday, performances will take place, including the Reverend Billy and the Tax Dodgers. At 8 pm, there will be a free outdoor screening of the Battle for Brooklyn. On Saturday, FUREE will lead a permitted march calling for “housing, jobs and justice” starting at 4 pm. It will wind by several downtown development sites and end at the arena at about 5 pm. For more info, click here. Thanks to a reader for sending in these photos. Click through for more images.


Nets Helped Clear Path for Building in Brooklyn [NY Times]
Playing Ball in Brooklyn Arts [WSJ]
Barclays Blast-off [NY Post]
Barclays Set to Dazzle [NY Daily News]
Atlantic Yards Supporter BUILD on Shaky Ground [AYR]
Daily News Goes Rogue; Critics Filed “200 Lawsuits” [AYR]

216 Comment

  • That will show those billionaires. Now that they have see your projections they will surely tear the arena down and put the shitty rundown buildings back, and give everyone hugs and puppies.

  • Obviously we have nothing better to do. I like the idea of having the arena there and the area looks a thousand time better than what occupied the space before, a large hole in the ground. . What a pity that people like Dan Goldstein got paid $3 million to move out of an apartment that he lived in for for a few years. True Brooklynites, those that were here before Brooklyn was cool, love the arena.

    • The arena is a big topic of discussion in our area. I know of only 1 person who does not like the new arena with passion. She just moved in 3 years ago. About 25 years old, I’d say.

      • so being a 25 year old with 3 years living in brooklyn makes her opinion less valid? i’ve lived in BK for many years, am over 35 and am not a fan. not a fan of how it came to be, nor am i a fan of how out of context it is for the neighborhood. and there are many more like me. it’s here now so i’ll make the best of it but the idea that “true brooklynites” like the arena is a ridiculous, pretentious generalization.

        • I was not suggesting her opinion was any less valid, just giving anecdotal info about people who live nearby. I think it’s funny that the most vocal opposition is someone that knows almost nothing about how this project came to be. I am aware and totally and 100% against how the project came to be, but now that it’s here, I personally believe that the best thing to do is support it. Ratner also built the NYTimes building 80 DKLB and the Gehry building downtown. You all make him sound like some sort of hack. Sure he’s a bit unscrupulous (as are most businessmen I’ve met) but he has also given NYC some great buildings.

          As for the Cleveland comment, Ratner is from Cleveland and has developed some stand out buildings there. Why is it odd to have your headquarters in your hometown where you continue to build things? I just think the amount of irrational behavior surrounding this arena is laughable. I understand being against it for a variety of reasons, but most often the ones I hear are totally based in irrational behavior and lies. (like that he’s had 2 billion in subsidies when it’s actually been 311 million).

        • I was not suggesting her opinion was any less valid, just giving anecdotal info about people who live nearby. I think it’s funny that the most vocal opposition is someone that knows almost nothing about how this project came to be. I am aware and totally and 100% against how the project came to be, but now that it’s here, I personally believe that the best thing to do is support it. Ratner also built the NYTimes building 80 DKLB and the Gehry building downtown. You all make him sound like some sort of hack. Sure he’s a bit unscrupulous (as are most businessmen I’ve met) but he has also given NYC some great buildings.

          As for the Cleveland comment, Ratner is from Cleveland and has developed some stand out buildings there. Why is it odd to have your headquarters in your hometown where you continue to build things? I just think the amount of irrational behavior surrounding this arena is laughable. I understand being against it for a variety of reasons, but most often the ones I hear are totally based in irrational behavior and lies. (like that he’s had 2 billion in subsidies when it’s actually been 311 million).

    • I consider myself a true Brooklynite, hate the arena, and have been here since 1948. You’ve been here longer than that?

  • Obviously we have nothing better to do. I like the idea of having the arena there and the area looks a thousand time better than what occupied the space before, a large hole in the ground. . What a pity that people like Dan Goldstein got paid $3 million to move out of an apartment that he lived in for for a few years. True Brooklynites, those that were here before Brooklyn was cool, love the arena.

  • LOL…both you guys hit the nail on the head

  • LOL…both you guys hit the nail on the head

  • guitarmy…OWS owes me a new keyboard.

  • As long as I can still get to Target, the stadium is a no issue.

  • As long as I can still get to Target, the stadium is a no issue.

  • oh good. All the protests and rallys are on Saturday and won’t affect the Atlantic Antic on Sunday.

  • oh good. All the protests and rallys are on Saturday and won’t affect the Atlantic Antic on Sunday.

  • Just to clarify because some peoples’ memory seems to be foggy. There were rail yards where the arena now stands. Not a “hole in the ground,” but rail yards. The Vanderbilt Rail Yards, to be exact.

  • wow – park slope limousine liberals must be really torn about who to support

  • rail yards are so 19th Century, dashey, and not in a good way.

  • rail yards are so 19th Century, dashey, and not in a good way.

  • I count myself as a true brooklynite who does not like the arena. I’ll avoid the area all together when big events are scheduled. I’m finding that most of the people who are “excited” are primarily newcomers misinformed about brooklyn in the first place.

  • “Misinformed about brooklyn????”

    WTF does that mean??????

  • Its a shame that these people continually waste their time with pointless protest – do they think they are going to tear down the arena now????????

    If these people cared about anything more than self-promotion and getting noticed, they’d wait till the arena actually opens – speak to the community, assemble the grievances (there will be some things that need improvement) and then protest (assuming a general request doesnt work) with a real AGENDA.

    But alas – all we will get is meaningless protest, more inconvenience for residents and business – and then citation of this inconveniences as excuse for more self-aggrandizing protest. Please stop the merry-go-round, I want off!

    • tell it to the reverend preaching about Barclays slave trade history. No one is asking to tear it down you numb nut. We are remembering the people who lived there, worked there, spurred the economy, and the people who still live there, ie. Dean Street et. al. who are older than you, older than “brownstoner” who invested in the neighborhood when it was just a place that no one wanted to go. How dare you continually spew your venom as if you know thing one about anyone who doesn’t like this project. You are reading a blog that is designed for white newbies, you must finally get over yourself. But you won’t. So we lament what was. And yes, people literally died under the threat of eminent domain. So you folks could have tacos made by white folks. yummy yummy who is the yuppy now.

  • Its a shame that these people continually waste their time with pointless protest – do they think they are going to tear down the arena now????????

    If these people cared about anything more than self-promotion and getting noticed, they’d wait till the arena actually opens – speak to the community, assemble the grievances (there will be some things that need improvement) and then protest (assuming a general request doesnt work) with a real AGENDA.

    But alas – all we will get is meaningless protest, more inconvenience for residents and business – and then citation of this inconveniences as excuse for more self-aggrandizing protest. Please stop the merry-go-round, I want off!

  • All protest is pointless. This ugly rusty pile was always going to get built. It was a brilliant exercise in steam roller development. What a mix of politicians on the take, Russian oligochs, racial card playing. There were many bait and switches but there was a chance that if Gehrey had built this then Brooklyn could be up there with Bilbao as Maybe having a world renown building instead of a rusty hull on a desert island. It is more interesting than what was there before and that is the best that can be said.
    It is too bad that the developer could not have given back to the community. This was an opportunity to build a swimming pool or a gym for use by regular folk.
    Also it is an ugly uninspired building. The curves are dramatic at the entrance but the other three sides are mundane. The corporate logo does not relate and the rusted finish was a failure in the seventies both aesthetically and mechanically. It will be need to be re-built in ten years.

  • My bet is that those claiming Brooklyn as their own are simply newbie transplants.

    This stadium is awful.Visually it is an eyesore and poorly designed.It will drain resources and tax the infrastructure of an already congested area. There is a reason why so many protested this development and there is a reason why the deal was struck behind our collective backs.

    As far as OWS I am grateful that there are groups still protesting economic disparity and capitalist cronyism . I guess those that think projecting onto the building is ineffective would consider sitting at segregated lunch counters as silly. It is a good use of technology and it is a great reminder of who is in charge in NYC-a despotic mayor and developers.

  • supermang – perhaps what argentina says is a stretch but it’s better to keep to your ideals and fight the good fight than to remain cynical and apathetic

  • It’s so sad that so many don’t care about the abusive process that led to this. It’s not about ‘tearing it down’, it’s about reminding people about the cronyism, the abuse of public process and the massive kickback (ok, subsidy) given to FCR. Do you guys care at all that the ‘affordable’ housing is nowhere in sight, the number of jobs is about a tenth of that promised, and that the rest of the site will remain a hole in the ground for 20+ years at least?

    Kudos to Occupy for mounting this small action. It’s in the best tradition of artistic protest. Protest is never pointless.

    • Protest can be pointless and the Occupy group has brought pointlessness to a new high. However, The government abuses that paved the way for this to happen should not be forgotten (that’s a good point to protest).

      But what legal binding did our officials place on the developers to follow through on these “promises?” If there wasn’t any, how can you make them comply?

      And how exactly was Forest City supposed to create more jobs? There is a finite amount of work necessary to build and operate a stadium. Do you propose they just add people to the payroll to sit around and do nothing? What other jobs were you expecting???

  • It’s funny that the most informative thing about this article was reading the comments and realizing The Antic is Sunday. Awesomeness.

    Disclaimer: I am very excited about the opening of the arena and the future of the borough. Having said that, the ways in which specific plots of land were taken away from private citizens by the government to give to other private citizens, for their own profit was a complete sham. Yet another example of government overstepping it’s bounds and “picking winners and losers.” Shameful. If you don’t like it – vote these people out. (I personally think we need some serious political house keeping in this frighteningly single party borough)

    Back on topic,

    I find it hilarious that these protestors are going to march by several downtown development sites demanding “housing, jobs and justice.”

    How do you create more housing and jobs? Demand them! Protest against the very thing that creates housing and jobs! Private real estate development!

    How do you create more justice? Demand it! Join a group protesting against the single greatest creator of justice and freedom the world has ever known! A free market capitalistic society!

    The basic premises of this group (assuming they actually have any) just continue to crack me up. But I guess I can apparently actually agree with them on something – the way government seized private property, not for the public good, but for other private citizen’s good was just plain wrong.

  • It’s funny that the most informative thing about this article was reading the comments and realizing The Antic is Sunday. Awesomeness.

    Disclaimer: I am very excited about the opening of the arena and the future of the borough. Having said that, the ways in which specific plots of land were taken away from private citizens by the government to give to other private citizens, for their own profit was a complete sham. Yet another example of government overstepping it’s bounds and “picking winners and losers.” Shameful. If you don’t like it – vote these people out. (I personally think we need some serious political house keeping in this frighteningly single party borough)

    Back on topic,

    I find it hilarious that these protestors are going to march by several downtown development sites demanding “housing, jobs and justice.”

    How do you create more housing and jobs? Demand them! Protest against the very thing that creates housing and jobs! Private real estate development!

    How do you create more justice? Demand it! Join a group protesting against the single greatest creator of justice and freedom the world has ever known! A free market capitalistic society!

    The basic premises of this group (assuming they actually have any) just continue to crack me up. But I guess I can apparently actually agree with them on something – the way government seized private property, not for the public good, but for other private citizen’s good was just plain wrong.

  • “As far as OWS I am grateful that there are groups still protesting economic disparity and capitalist cronyism .”

    And that’s about as specific as it gets with OWS; except, of course, wanting their student loans wiped out.

  • “As far as OWS I am grateful that there are groups still protesting economic disparity and capitalist cronyism .”

    And that’s about as specific as it gets with OWS; except, of course, wanting their student loans wiped out.

  • In regards to the pointless argument over who’s a “real Brooklynite,” what about Ratner, Prokhorov and Bloomberg?

    While we’re at it, if Ratner cares so much about this city, why doesn’t he relocate his company here from Cleveland? Hmm, let me see, could it be the unreasonable cost of doing business here? If Ratner really wanted to create meaningful, well-paying jobs in Brooklyn, the obvious answer would be to relocate his business here. But he won’t. Ever.

    • As a born and raised Clevelander I can tell you that Forest City has already invested much more in Brooklyn and New York (New York Times Building) than they ever have in Cleveland.

      But yes, it is not Bruce Ratner’s undying purpose to create meaningful jobs in Brooklyn. Why should it be?

      • Because it was one of his “promises” to the borough. He was allowed to use Eminent Domain to build his arena. He should at least have some responsibility to the community. Instead, 9300 people applied for 2000 jobs, fewer than 100 of which were full-time.

  • In regards to the pointless argument over who’s a “real Brooklynite,” what about Ratner, Prokhorov and Bloomberg?

    While we’re at it, if Ratner cares so much about this city, why doesn’t he relocate his company here from Cleveland? Hmm, let me see, could it be the unreasonable cost of doing business here? If Ratner really wanted to create meaningful, well-paying jobs in Brooklyn, the obvious answer would be to relocate his business here. But he won’t. Ever.

  • I have to laugh at all the pro-Ratner folks here claiming to be “true Brooklyn!” They are ignorant – plain and simple.
    The people behind this project – a Russian billionaire, the heir to a Cleveland, OH real estate fortune, and a corrupt British financial firm – have nothing at all to do with Brooklyn and have shown zero concern for the welfare of the community.
    To insult the protesters and to continue with the attacks on Daniel Goldstein only reveals a slavish, dog-like devotion to your financial betters. Sorry, but your blind adoration of the rich doesn’t seem very “Brooklyn” to me at all.

    • Blind adoration of the rich, really? I’m not saying that they’re saints, but they brought a world class venue to Brooklyn. They didn’t knock down the Williamsburgh Savings bank to do it, they built it over rail yards which ironically were slated for the Brooklyn Dodgers back in the 1950′s. And let’s not pretend that most of the people doing much of the complianing are closer to the 1%. Last time I checked, there aren’t a lot of poor people living in the surrounding areas. Brooklyn is lucky to have people wanting to invest it in. Travel outside of Brooklyn and visit some of the desolate cities, even in our own state where no one is investing. Havens for the poor I’m sure.

  • @anonlurker We can “keep our ideals and fight the good fight” without acting like we failed US History, and none of that equates to cynicism on any level.

    We really should expect more critical thinking of people, that way conversations don’t get watered down into false dichotomies.

  • Because the entire project was funded with NYC tax credits based-on the understanding Ratner’s project would provide jobs & affordable housing. duh!

  • Unfortunately for most of the protesters, especially the OWS crowd, he works for the sharehilders of FCE

  • I think many people’s understanding of the exact terms of funding are severely flawed.

    • OK, dibs, please explain the exact terms to us.
      Are you saying the city didn’t give economic support to this project? Are you saying the state didn’t didn’t wage a costly Eminent Domain action against property owners in the area? Are you saying that the LIRR didn’t give Ratner a good deal on the air rights for the Yards themselves?

    • OK, dibs, please explain the exact terms to us.
      Are you saying the city didn’t give economic support to this project? Are you saying the state didn’t didn’t wage a costly Eminent Domain action against property owners in the area? Are you saying that the LIRR didn’t give Ratner a good deal on the air rights for the Yards themselves?

  • As does yours,parkedslope with the statement “Because the entire project was funded with NYC tax credits “

    • I meant that the entire project wouldn’t have gotten off the ground without taxpayer support. I shouldn’t have implied that there was no private investment, but the very reason for the subsidies & tax credits was to stimulate job growth and economic development – something architrance doesn’t seem to know or understand.

  • NO, all I’m saying is thay NOT ALL OF THE FUNDING (as you say) had tax credits attached to it. Try and stay on topic. If you need to, you can look it all up in the FCE 10K but that would require actual research of the facts.

  • NO, all I’m saying is thay NOT ALL OF THE FUNDING (as you say) had tax credits attached to it. Try and stay on topic. If you need to, you can look it all up in the FCE 10K but that would require actual research of the facts.

  • Anyone else think “parkedslope” is Daniel Goldstein?

  • Yes, but, as usual with this subject, you had the details all wrong.

  • If they are not sticking to the terms of their “contracts” or financing with the government, the government, your politicians, should be held accountable.

    • Yes, so why are you mocking the protests?
      At least they are raising awareness that Ratner & Co have lived-up to precious few of the commitments they made.
      AND, you should know that when the city and state entered into these agreements, they intentionally omitted any sort of penalties that could have held the developer accountable.
      So, again, go read the history of this. And you don’t need to examine the FCE 10K – or whatever – to understand how crooked this process has been.
      It’s called “corporate welfare,” and if people can’t see how it makes them into patsies then they are probably beyond reach. DIBS, considering how much you post on this site, I’d think by now you’d be well informed about this. Sadly, you are not alone…

      • parkedslope – when you add up the increased sales tax , the increased property taxes, the additional income tax, the higher mortgage recording taxes and all the extra fees that will be collected, come back to us with the government’s ROI.
        I suspect it will turn out to be fairly good use of public funds.
        But until that information can be analyzed – all you whining, is just that.

      • Oh and I am criticizing the protests because they are pointless – it does no good to “remind” people of the “abuses” you allege.

        however as the arena is up and running and the development is being further built, there very well may be CONCRETE things worth protesting. However, the credibility of the ‘protestors’ will be that much more diminished by these vanity events.

        • Why does it do no good to remind people of abuses?
          That’s the entire basis for protesting what’s to-come.
          I’m sorry, but there’s no logic to what you’re saying…

        • Why does it do no good to remind people of abuses?
          That’s the entire basis for protesting what’s to-come.
          I’m sorry, but there’s no logic to what you’re saying…

        • tell a holocaust survivor there is no use in reminded people of the past. Such a sad way to go through life, just accepting every injustice because, well, there is nothing you can do about, and why should anyone ever try to learn from the past. We are oh so evolved here in NY. Wait till Ratty Ner what’s even more land and encroaches on your house. Duh, I forgot all about everything. Then they come for you, and…..silence.

  • How much longer will we be subject to the whining over this project??? it’s up and running. Get a life, people. Move on.

  • This thread is all over the place but,

    The “way private property was taken” was =
    1000% legal, by use of a process that is actually written in our Constitution, has legal precedent going back 200+ years and was affirmed by the Supreme Court in an analogous case DURING the ED process.

    No offense but WTF do you people want – you may not like it, you might want to change the Constitution (good luck with that) – but no one “abused” anything! ED in this case was not even a close call – it was LEGAL.

    As for the look of the arena, IMHO it is gorgeous at night, beautiful from the front and sides and ugly from the rear…but once the building on Dean St is built, the rear will look entirely different (much better)

    • I wish I could stop posting, but you have badly mis-characterized the Supreme Court decision in Kelo vs New London. The Court actually said that using Eminent Domain for economic development was something that should be done sparingly. In response, 43 states enacted laws prohibiting just these sorts of abuses.
      And you should also be careful in using the Court decision as an example: New London is in now in far-worse shape than it was before it won the case – http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/13/nyregion/13pfizer.html
      Thaks for inadvertently providing another example of the dangers of depending on the generosity of corporations!

    • brklymind – you are all over the place. 1000% legal? Written in our constitution? You have no idea what you are talking about..

      The whole point of why this country was founded, was for the protection of private property – from Kings, from The State, from Oligarchs.

      Eminent Domain was only supposed o be used for the public good.

      “The Fifth Amendment imposes limitations on the exercise of eminent domain: the taking must be for *public use* and just compensation must be paid”

      That horrendous supreme court 5-4 decision 7 years ago, united conservatives, liberals, libertarians alike and prompted virtually every state to re-write their ED laws to avoid such a thing ever happening again.

    • The thread is the same as it’s always been. Brownstoner posts something about the project. DIBS or DaveinBedStuy ( what happened the What) write some dooshbaggy comment about Nimbys or hipster or some other misguided hate igniting untruth. The rest chime in. Then others retort. And so goes the bs of Brooklyn. No one can help themselves from anonymously being total and complete jerks. It’s so predictably sad. We are all so superior and know everything. uch

    • The thread is the same as it’s always been. Brownstoner posts something about the project. DIBS or DaveinBedStuy ( what happened the What) write some dooshbaggy comment about Nimbys or hipster or some other misguided hate igniting untruth. The rest chime in. Then others retort. And so goes the bs of Brooklyn. No one can help themselves from anonymously being total and complete jerks. It’s so predictably sad. We are all so superior and know everything. uch

  • (eyes rolling) at parkedslope. You can’t seem to focus on one specific point at a time and when it was pointed out that you were wrong, you go off on irrelevant tangents to muddy the issue.

  • “AND, you should know that when the city and state entered into these agreements, they intentionally omitted any sort of penalties that could have held the developer accountable.”

    AND, whose fault is that???????????

  • New London????????? How appropriate to compare a small town that had nothing but a Pfizer plant to brooklyn.

    Laughable.

    • DIBS, give me a break: are you even reading this thread? brklynmind brought the Supreme Court case up.
      Is this all just too complicated for you to understand?
      I guess it’s easier to say “Go Nets!” and forget it all…
      Enjoy!

    • DIBS, give me a break: are you even reading this thread? brklynmind brought the Supreme Court case up.
      Is this all just too complicated for you to understand?
      I guess it’s easier to say “Go Nets!” and forget it all…
      Enjoy!

  • Protests are fine, I think that’s healthy for our country. But shining these lights on the building seems like defacing public property to me and seems incredibly childish. You want to protest, do it the old fashioned way and picket and yell and all that, but doing these light shows seems inappropriate in every way.

    Just because you don’t like something doesn’t give you the right to deface it publicly.

  • Protests are fine, I think that’s healthy for our country. But shining these lights on the building seems like defacing public property to me and seems incredibly childish. You want to protest, do it the old fashioned way and picket and yell and all that, but doing these light shows seems inappropriate in every way.

    Just because you don’t like something doesn’t give you the right to deface it publicly.

  • Actually I didn’t care one way or another. All i know is that the area was an eyesore both aesthetically and economically before, and now, magically, it is not.

    I’m not even a NYC resident anymore

  • I’m still here 4 days a week, I’m just not a legal resident of NYC.

    I’ve seen it. It looks great, as stadiums go and yes, even better at night.

  • I’m still here 4 days a week, I’m just not a legal resident of NYC.

    I’ve seen it. It looks great, as stadiums go and yes, even better at night.

  • Maybe someone can come up with a fun light show to shine on D. Golstein’s new abode?

  • LOL, pp

    If you are going to continue to be snarky, come over to http://www.lifeinbkln.com

    It’s the old OT crowd from here, back when it was fun, and the technology worked better!!!!

  • The use in New London was far more pointed to “economic development” as the public benefit rather than a PUBLIC use arena for sports and cultural events (even if you do not like those cultural events), and New London ED usage was UPHELD.
    the fact that it didnt work to spur economic development in New London is 100% totally and completely irrelevant to the legality of it.
    SO – ED at AY was always 100% legal, well within precedent and carried out in a totally constitutional manner (just ask all the people who got 100% return on their 3yr old condos)
    There was no ABUSE.

    If you want to change the law – go for it – but stop making it out like someone broke the law here. It simply didn’t happen, and lying about it wont change that fact.

  • parkedslope, you’re beating a dead horse. People like Dibs are trollINg for reaction, and who don’t care about ethics or morality; the free enterprise system is god. Of course, the fact that under a true, non-subsidized, legally mandated process & overview, AY would have looked completely different, does not matter at all to them.

  • (eyes rolling)

    cmu and babs dusting off the usual left wing catch phrases

  • It’s impossible to ‘deface’ that brutalist exterior.
    I hope that when the Lego buildings go up there are new sewers & schools built to support the influx of people. At least that would mean construction jobs since the need for workers on the prefabs is minimal.

  • A double post here yet HOTD and COTD can’t seem to get most of the posts to stay.

    Nice work blankSlate

  • it’s built. it’ll open. it’s >>>>>>>> hole in the ground (fact there were tracks at the bottom doesn’t preclude categorizing it as a huge hole). if any one has any complaining to do, vote our the freaking gov peeps who did all this behind the scene stuff. I don’t like all the gov money involved but since it’s all done now, I’ll just enjoy all them Nets home games

  • In reply to prospectperk: You do realize that this is a temporary illumination and that the arena itself is not actually marred or changed in any way, right (so it’s not defaced)? I thought that had been pointed out to you earlier, but I guess you didn’t understand that.

    In reply to dibs: I see you’re dusting off the usual right-wing, laissez-faire, BS catchphrases, all while continuing to use the City’s public resources while changing your official residence so as not to pay the taxes that support them. Sounds like a certain Presidential candidate stowing his money in the Cayman Islands – though you probably have accounts there too.

  • m4l, when you play fast and loose woth the facts, it’s easier to point the finger at ratner than ALL the politicians invilved.

  • In Singapore, not the Caymans, babs. I pay Singapore witholding taxes but they are credited back to me when I file my IRS taxes. All very legal.

    I do pay taxes when I’m here squatting though…..8% + sales tax…my fair share.

  • In reply to dibs: Paying only sales tax is hardly your fair share, not if you walk on NYC sidewalks, drive on NYC roads, ride on NYC subways, throw out garbage for NYC sanitation to pick up, etc.

  • OK, babs, as long as you pay a little something extra wherever you vacation.

    I don’t drive here. I pay a fee to use the subway and the garbage is paid for by the person with whom I’m here shacked up with!!!! I suspect we pay more in meal taxes at restaurants than most of the 99%!!!!! :)

    BUT, yes, it’s true. i fear I’m slowly devolving into a self entitled Democrat.

  • Babs: I’m fully aware that it’s not permanent, it’s still quite offensive and childish. Perhaps you’d like it if someone shined offensive lights on your private home? It’s defacing. I never said permanent defacing. And the place is only an eyesore to some people, lots of us love it. So you really don’t get to be the only person who’s opinion matter with regard to how the arena looks. If I’m not mistaken you were the one who last week said that Ratner has taken 2 billion in subsidies and when I told you that it’s been 311 million you ignored it.

    Arkady: The new building (supposed to break ground on December 18th) has yet to be decided whether it will be pre-fab or not. What has been determined is that it’s going to be all studio and 1 bedroom. Probably not many children living in that building, so the school issue can probably wait. I don’t know about the current state of the sewer system, although I did talk to a construction worker on site a few months ago who said that a new sewer has been installed around the arena. Did you not see that huge pipe going underground? They were working on it for months and the huge pipe was sitting all over the street.

    • I think I read that ULURP said the massive drains were for water run-off, not sewage.

    • “Just because you don’t like something doesn’t give you the right to deface it publicly.”

      But you can ask your chubby buddies in govt to seize it for you?

      “Perhaps you’d like it if someone shined offensive lights on your private home?”

      Oh, PP, but now we should protect “private” property from shining lights but not from a corrupt delevloper seizing it? Now – who is all over the place?

  • >i fear I’m slowly devolving into a self entitled Democrat.
    Irony aside, we’d welcome you with open arms (no homo)

  • OK…gotta go. I’ve more than finished doing god’s work for the day so I’m going to take the subway, which I will pay for, back to BH, where I’m staying. As far as walking on the sidewalks, as we all know, the building owner is responsible for their upkeep so they are not really a city service. I’ll keep toilet flushing to a minimum.

  • You are aware prospect perk that no-one is living in the arena, no events were going on there, and therefore no-one inside was bothered by these lights, are you not? Quite different from shining a light on someone’s home. And I did see (and respond to) your comment, but it’s $511 million he’s actually pocketed to date (including $125 million slated for subway infrastructure improvements elsewhere in the system), with most of the balance coming in the form of interest-rate subsidies via the municipal bonds issued by NYS to provide FCR the capital to build this monstrosity.

  • “monstrosity” is your own opinion. Far better that we still had the hole in the ground and all the lovely people like Daniel Goldstein there in their lovely homes.

  • “So you really don’t get to be the only person who’s opinion matter with regard to how the arena looks” Who’s = who is. Whose is the possessive. It’s really not that hard.

    And I hardly consider myself to be the only person whose opinion matters here – and there are a great many people who share it. And our opinions all matter, but what really matters is the string of broken promises, outright lies, and blatant political corruption used to perpetrate this horror, beginning with bypassing the City’s ULURP rules and making this a state project, so Ratner could pay off his friends in Albany easier. Well, at least Carl Kruger got taken out.

    And there was much more than just a hole in the ground there, BTW: several landmark-worthy buildings were demolished, along with 18th-century row houses, rent-stabilized apartment buildings, and even a shelter for homeless women and children.

  • “So since no one’s living in Empire State Building, you’d have no problem with me shining a light that says “Babs lied and said Ratner took 2 billion and then when she was called out, she changed her tune and tried to be more rational” ?”

    Feel free to spend your own money to do that, because 1. No-one will have any idea what you’re talking about, and 2. It isn’t true. No tune-changing at all – I merely stated the total amount of subsidies and tax breaks he’s gotten (including not having to pay the NYS mortgage recording tax on this purchase – which alone is a huge amount) without specifying the breakdown, as I assumed that by now we were all familiar with the math involved.

  • For those who believe it is both appropriate and necessary for the local community to continue to monitor the arena, please see the following announcement from PHNDC. This is about accountability, not nimbyism.

    Report concerns about arena impacts:

    The Barclays Center opens this Friday, September 28. And while we have heard and read a great deal about the events scheduled for the arena and the design of the building, Friday’s opening will finally reveal what life will be like for the residents who live around the arena once it is operational. Will arena visitors take public transportation or drive around the neighborhood looking for free parking? How disruptive will crowds be for residents who are trying to get to sleep before work and school the next day? What will the streets and sidewalks look like the day after 18,000 attend a concert?

    The Prospect Heights Neighborhood Development Council and our member organizations will be working closely with the arena operators, the City, our local elected officials and Community Board 8 to ensure that issues around the arena opening and on-going quality of life impacts are addressed. We need to hear from you – about your observations around the arena opening and what quality of life impacts need to be addressed with respect to sanitation, noise, traffic, crowd control or any other areas you’re concerned with. We will bring these issues up for discussion at post-opening assessment meetings that are schedule to take place in the next few weeks.

    Visit our website atlanticyardswatch.net to file reports, ask questions, and upload your video and photos. Or call AYW voice mail at (760) 569-6374.

    To report concerns about the arena:

    1) Call 911 or 311

    Call 911 to report any incidents that require immediate police attention. (Remember to note your complaint tracking number.)
    -or-
    Call 311 or the 78th Precinct to report any issues that are not emergencies but require attention the evening of an event, such as illegal parking, cars on sidewalks.
    The 78th Precinct phone number is (718) 636-6411. (Remember to note your complaint tracking number if you call 311).

    2) Go to Atlanticyardswatch.net

    Please also report these concerns by going to atlanticyardswatch.net, the community monitoring site which PHNDC and other civic associations sponsor. Reporting through the site allows us to track issues and bring them to the attention of Forest City Ratner and government agencies for resolution. The incident reports are read regularly by the Mayor’s Office liaison for Atlantic Yards, Empire State Development, and Forest City Ratner.

  • Oy vey – what a thread. I’m going to buy some Nets tickets now.

  • “According to the NYtimes today, 304 million. Not 2 billion, not 511 million.”

    And the NY Times is NEVER wrong. That paper has devolved into such a propaganda tool for the Rat I can hardly even stand to read it anymore. I assume that once this thing opens they’ll stop their grandstanding (except perhaps to cover the utter traffic and pedestrian nightmare that events will become) or I will be forced to cancel my subscription.

    Here are some other numbers for you, courtesy of the NYC Independent Budget Office: “The arena will be a net loss to the city of at least $40 million and as much as $220 million; when all subsidies are totalled, FCR will save $726 million on the construction of the arena, nearly its full cost. This includes such gifts as a sales-tax exemption on construction materials (wow, even dibs admits to paying sales taxes – you’re not doing it right, dibs!) and a waiver of property taxes.”

    And that’s just the arena. Yes, if he never builds another stick, he won’t get the other goodies. We can only hope that the Court of Appeals’s requirement that a new SEIS be conducted leads to the removal of FCR for the rest of the project. I doubt it, but that would be really, really great, as there are other, more humanist developers waiting in the wings.

    • Babs – considering the NYT got Pataki to abuse ED in order to build their shiny new building on 40th st, as evidenced with their disgusting, sycophantic editorials in support of the Supreme Court CT decision CT Bloomy’s 3rd term – most people, that can think, know who’s side The Times are on.

      Only group-think liberals on the UWS and PSlope treat the NYT like it’s the progressive bible, the rest of us know better.

  • The worst thing about the new arena is that you won’t be able to buy GREAT seats to watch the NBA for under $15 anymore. But it is much closer than Newark/Meadowlands.

  • The worst thing about the new arena is that you won’t be able to buy GREAT seats to watch the NBA for under $15 anymore. But it is much closer than Newark/Meadowlands.

  • @prospectperk – “I was not suggesting her opinion was any less valid, just giving anecdotal info about people who live nearby.” – yes you were

  • @supermang – what’s cynical and apathetic is criticizing someone for standing up for an ideal that you think is pointless. An ideal that many would suggest is noble and moral…

  • This bothers me so much. You can see by my user name what Im about. Brooklyn through and through…but I literally have thousands of friends in Brooklyn under the age of 30…not ONE of them has attended occupy wall street. Im going to go out on a limb here and say that 9 out of 10 people protesting or hating on the stadium are NOT from Brooklyn…they are transplants from else where. Do you know how long people from Brooklyn have been waiting for some thing like this? Since the Dodgers left! over 50 years ago!!! I think the stadium is AWESOME! I need to feel baddd for some one who got millions to leave thier already run down home? Theyre chilling in a gorgeous new place now. Let the people who had emminent domain used against them protest it…not some hipsters looking to make a name for them selves! GET A JOB!!!!…excuse makers.

    • Instead of going out on a limb, why no go by and see who is there. They are all older than you, and have been involved in the community long before you were born, as if that really mattered. This ‘who’ was here longer is such bs. But why don’t you go have a conversation with Reverend Miller about who grew up here. Oh right, you haven’t a clue who he is.

  • @DIBS – “If they are not sticking to the terms of their “contracts” or financing with the government, the government, your politicians, should be held accountable.” – this is exactly the point of protesting. it should raise awareness with the community and YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS. this is how change happens. this is how we can try to avoid or mitigate this unjust crap in the future.

  • “And I hardly consider myself to be the only person whose opinion matters here – and there are a great many people who share it.”

    ever read “Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds” written by Charles Mackay

  • I am in favor of people monitoring the arena operations to make sure they are doing everything reasonable to make it a good neighbor. (Like for one they better stop putting those gates across the front plaza and thereby making the occulus an empty/restricted area)

    But it will be highly unfair to 1. Judge the place on the basis of a single concert (opening night no less) 2. Invite tons of protesters to make a spectacle, and then complain about any ensuing chaos.

  • I am in favor of people monitoring the arena operations to make sure they are doing everything reasonable to make it a good neighbor. (Like for one they better stop putting those gates across the front plaza and thereby making the occulus an empty/restricted area)

    But it will be highly unfair to 1. Judge the place on the basis of a single concert (opening night no less) 2. Invite tons of protesters to make a spectacle, and then complain about any ensuing chaos.

  • > world class venue to Brooklyn…

    I’m very much afraid you live in an alternate world than mine., or else you’ve not traveled anywhere beyond this neck of woods.

  • > world class venue to Brooklyn…

    I’m very much afraid you live in an alternate world than mine., or else you’ve not traveled anywhere beyond this neck of woods.

  • >I need to feel baddd for some one who got millions to leave thier already run down home?

    I guess you have not read this thread if you think the outrage is about DG and his apartment. Please enlighten yourself by reading the reams of stuff written about the AY process and how Ratner essentially screwed us all out of 300mil (or 511 or whatever).

  • ” Ratner essentially screwed us all out of 300mil (or 511 or whatever).”

    Get a grip, cmu. It’s not as if they aren’t paying back the loans.

  • ” Ratner essentially screwed us all out of 300mil (or 511 or whatever).”

    Get a grip, cmu. It’s not as if they aren’t paying back the loans.

  • dibs, I’m not talking about loans but subsidies & tax breaks. What are you talking about?

  • >NY Times…progressive bible

    But what’s the alternative? At least it’s the devil I know.

  • Isn’t “progressive bible” an oxymoron.

  • In that case, I suspect $311 Million in tax breaks will be made back many times over in the next few years with the revenues this place will generate.

    Try and think into the future. No one is getting screwed out of anything

  • Yes crownflc – I dont know what I am talking about….and neither does the Supreme Courts of the last 225 years. Only you do

  • >In that case, I suspect $311 Million in tax breaks will be made back many times

    I’ll concede the point that NY will get back some (or even most) of this money back via sales tax etc. But any project built on the scale of Barclays would do the same, so it’s a wasj. If the Unity scheme, with all mid-rise condos and rentals had been built, we’d have similar revenue in. And Unity requested no subsidies.

    • The only way NYC and NYS will get money back here is through sales taxes – any profits the arena makes will be funneled through FCR’s financial statements which will always show limited taxable income (like most corporations), and with their headquarters not in NYS their liability here would be limited in any case, and they’re exempt from paying real estate taxes. If the Unity/Extell plan had been followed 1. The MTA would have received $150 million for the rail yards, vs. the $100 million FCR offer it accepted (later renegotiated to only $20 million now, with the rest to be paid over 22 years, as a very moderate interest rate) 2. Because there was no arena, there were no subsidies or tax breaks, meaning, that 3. NYS and NYC would have gotten tax revenues from real property transfer taxes and mortgage recording taxes on sale of the housing units to be bought, and 4. the permanent residents (both owners and renters) would have brought a lot more than merely sales tax revenue generated by purchases at events and ticket sales – they would have been living there, paying income taxes, real estate taxes, and sales taxes on everyday, ongoing purchases. What we have instead is an arena (the only thing the Rat ever really cared about building) and lot of parking lots – for up to 25 more years.

  • I have no idea who Unity is or what they proposed. it seems though that ratner was more capable of getting something done, in a very tough economic environment and therefore kudos to him.

    Survival of the fittest and all that.

    Besides, you have no idea if the revenues would be similar or not.

  • dibs, you argue for arguments’s sake. Whether the revenue would be ‘similar’ or not,, it’s an educated guess…similar umber of apartments and residents, similar r.e. taxes, similar construction. Jeez.

    But you’re also missing the main point (and just because you are ignorant of proposals other than the Rat’s, don’t dismiss them, they’re in the public record,) … another proposals from reputable firm, requiring no subsidy and paying somewhat higher for the land. Look it up.

  • Then why didn’t they win it???

    Queue up all the conspiracy theories……..

    Did it include a sports/entertainment complex??? If it didn’t there’s no comparison. The revenues they generate, especially with food and alcohol concessions are unconscionable (in a good way).

  • Yes, babs, sales taxes. At what, 8.5%? Exactly. The sales taxes generated by a sports/entertainment complex on concession sales are phenomenal. And, they begin on day 1.

    I bet one or two concerts will generate more tax revenue than a year’s worth of RE taxes on a bunch of condo units. And, BTW, they will be abated anyway.

  • And, if you really think that FCE is going to make unconscionable profits at the expense of NYS, then just buy the stock and try and profit from that. Try to think like a Republican, at least when you might be able to profit from it!!!!!!!!

  • Real property transfer taxes (paid at time of sale or resale) and mortgage recording taxes are not abated (unless, of course, you’re a corrupt developer), so I sincerely doubt your calculation there.

  • If Unity plan went through – which it couldnt have; you’d all be complaining about what a bunch of criminals Extell is.

    The City/State wont make the subsidies back in sales tax because the arena was financed with PILOTs – do you people know anything about this arena?

    The way the City and State WILL make back the $ is through the higher taxes paid by the nearby merchants (increased sales), the higher RE and transfer taxes paid by the nearby LL (commercial rents already up a lot thereby increasing the value and taxes on nearby property). The payroll/income taxes of the new/added employees in and around the arena.
    And ultimately all the new property, transfer, mortgage, income, sales taxes and fees that will be collected due to the new housing, residents and businesses that will come when the remaining towers are built. (empty railyards dont pay much in the way of taxes.

  • If Unity plan went through – which it couldnt have; you’d all be complaining about what a bunch of criminals Extell is.

    The City/State wont make the subsidies back in sales tax because the arena was financed with PILOTs – do you people know anything about this arena?

    The way the City and State WILL make back the $ is through the higher taxes paid by the nearby merchants (increased sales), the higher RE and transfer taxes paid by the nearby LL (commercial rents already up a lot thereby increasing the value and taxes on nearby property). The payroll/income taxes of the new/added employees in and around the arena.
    And ultimately all the new property, transfer, mortgage, income, sales taxes and fees that will be collected due to the new housing, residents and businesses that will come when the remaining towers are built. (empty railyards dont pay much in the way of taxes.

  • Sorry, the thought of even pretending to think like today’s Republicans sickens me. Unfortunately, I am not so in love with money that I would anything for it, unlike far too many today it seems.

  • Sorry, the thought of even pretending to think like today’s Republicans sickens me. Unfortunately, I am not so in love with money that I would anything for it, unlike far too many today it seems.

  • Whatever. I can’t even respond to a comment like that. Democrats sicken me too. But not keeping an open mind as to how to make money is just typical and, frankly, stupid.

    Transfer taxes and mortgage taxes are ONE TIME and virtually immaterial.

  • I know how to make money – by honest work, not speculating on the capital stock of a corporation whose methods are abhorrent to me. And those “one time” taxes sure add up, when you consider that they are paid at every sale and resale, and total between 1.4%-1.825% of the total purchase price and 2.05% – 2.175% of the mortgage amount – and don’t forget the 1% mansion tax on sales of over $1 million.

  • Yeah but 8.5% on tcket, food, booze, crap sales EVRY day will add up faster.

    It’s not worth discussing since the numbers aren’t in yet and, more importantly, you will never have an option to compare it to. Suffice it to say that this place will pay back whatever abatements, deals or screwing the taxpayer that it took to build it MANY TIME OVER IN GENERATED TAXES.

    Yes, sorry, I forgot about the Democratic view of the stock market. It’s pure speculation. forget about it. Don’t try and build wealth in an IRA or anything. Social Security and other governement handouts will be there for you forever into the future.

    “whose methods are abhorrent to me.” Time to grow up maybe.

  • “I know how to make money – by honest work”

    You are in real estate, right????????

  • If accepting morally repugnant business practices means growing up I’ll stay a child. And I do invest in the stock of companies whose mission and morals are acceptable to me.
    And, considering that I have paid a good chunk of my income into Social Security and Medicare, I certainly do expect them to be there for me – since when is something you pay for a handout?

    And as far as my being in real estate – kettle, meet pot – what is it that you do again. Puh-lease!

  • If accepting morally repugnant business practices means growing up I’ll stay a child. And I do invest in the stock of companies whose mission and morals are acceptable to me.
    And, considering that I have paid a good chunk of my income into Social Security and Medicare, I certainly do expect them to be there for me – since when is something you pay for a handout?

    And as far as my being in real estate – kettle, meet pot – what is it that you do again. Puh-lease!

  • I’m retired now. All of the things you’d like to accuse me of are in the past. I never traded on inside information nor had any other legal issues. No, I didn’t invest socially; I was more interested in making money for the clients.
    :-P

    I’ll be taking my social security the minute I hit 62. I’ll likely spend it on alcohol and hustlers and whatever else is left will be wasted. :)

  • I’m retired now. All of the things you’d like to accuse me of are in the past. I never traded on inside information nor had any other legal issues. No, I didn’t invest socially; I was more interested in making money for the clients.
    :-P

    I’ll be taking my social security the minute I hit 62. I’ll likely spend it on alcohol and hustlers and whatever else is left will be wasted. :)

  • and how do you know they’re all “recent” transplants, more recent than yourself?

  • Ratner merely had more influential politicians (e.g. Bloomie, Patiaki) in his pocket. It would seem that someone as well informed as you would have known all of the events, players, and possible plans for this area.

  • are those revenues going to NYC coffers?

  • very good points, Babs!
    But the people here who are only concerned about seeing basketball games wouldn’t have cared, even if Ratner had built some sort of disgusting, rusting, piece of crap on this major intersection. Oh wait … he did.

  • Wait, so I can’t even REGISTER to post in the lifeinbk site? You guys went off and made a public forum that isn’t even public? Am I missing something? I guess. Is that on purpose, the lack of ability for anyone to register? Is it invitation only? And if so, why not just have a closed site?

    Right. So anyways, the arena protests. How about those nets? That’s… basketball, I think. Have you seen the new uniforms?

  • @ anon I don’t think it is pointless I think it is stupid and trite.

  • @ anon I don’t think it is pointless I think it is stupid and trite.

  • Registration was closed b/c there was a lot of spamming. I’ll have the site admin check into your registration.

    Let me know what your email is

    DJL135e54@yahoo.com

  • Tell this guy he’s a lily white newbie. To his face. Right…silence.

    If you like it go for it, but the name calling and bs about newbies and yuppies and “real brooklynites” is just ridiculous ( but surely DIBS will find a way to contest that too, sigh). The world is not black and white but that is definitely the tone of the comments as alwaaaaaaayyyyysssss.

    Umar Jordan, a community organizer from Bedford Stuyvesant who also once supported the project, addressed himself to Jay-Z and told him that he should have made the arena “affordable for young children who grew up in the projects like you did.
    “We’ve been robbed; Brooklyn’s been robbed,” he told the crowd. “I’ve seen people go to jail for less.”

  • “Get a life, people. Move on.” ~DIBS

    Spoken by a man who left Brooklyn, but can’t seem to stop talking about it.

  • “Get a life, people. Move on.” ~DIBS

    Spoken by a man who left Brooklyn, but can’t seem to stop talking about it.