New Bike Lanes on Smith and Hoyt

BIKE-LANES.jpg
Good news for BoCoCa bikers, as this spring will bring extended bike lanes to and from the Manhattan and Brooklyn Bridges. Bicycle lanes on Smith and Hoyt street will be added, with the Smith street lane going from Bergen to 9th Street, and the Hoyt Street lane going from Bergen to 3rd Street. Nine parking spots will be lost on Hoyt between Bergen and Wyckoff. Worth the trade?
Smith and Hoyt Streets Bicycle Lane Extensions [New York City DOT]

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  • daveinbedstuy

    NO, it is not worth the trade.

  • yeah 9 spots in that location is premium $$$. is that picture the street they are putting in a bike lane!? it doesnt even look like there’s enough room for a small car to go between the two sides of the parked cars.

    *rob*

  • Why do they insist on putting bike lanes on all the busiest streets, such as Smith and 5th Ave??
    Would seem safer all round to concentrate them on the more residential thoroughfares.

  • No it is not fair. Parking in Brooklyn is so bad already. They really should be re-evaluating spaces that can be made for parking. Non working fire hydrants need to be removed. Places of worship should not have a no parking sign in front of them for all day and night, worshiping is only time designated, the rest of the time parking should be allowed there.

    Really, who thinks this stuff up. Parking is horriffic in Brooklyn

  • Yes, worth the trade. Smith and Court need bike lanes, and in fact they should extend b/w Atlantic and 9th st.

    Parking is not horrific in Bklyn, I always find a spot in minutes. And you can address the non-working hydrants, church parking, etc simultaneously to putting in lanes.

  • great.

    those nine spots will benefit far many more people as a bike lane in terms of usage & improved safety, compared to what is most likely only 9 people and their large pieces of personal property.

    fellow brooklynites:
    dont be afraid to think long term & grander scale! it will inevitably lead you outside the (car) box.

  • Definitely worth the trade.

    More cars and more parking will never be the answer (IMO), if you want giant parking lots, driveways, and a motorized vehicle lifestyle move out of NYC.

    Public space should be divided equally, cars do not have a divine right of more space, why should pedestrians and cyclists not get their fair share of public space.

  • It would be more equitable if they were able to replace the lost parking spots somewhere nearby. For instance there are defunct hydrants that have never been removed and the turning radius for firetrucks are based on the 1960′s models so parking could extend a little further at some corners.
    But the intent of the Borough officials is to discourage citizens from driving or owning cars, although they also desperately need the license and registration fees. So its really sort of a fake intent, to be politically correct while at the same time not wanting to lose the huge revenue stream from tickets, registration, garage tax etc.
    I wish someone would do a study, it shouldn’t be difficult, on how many days a year are actually suited, weather-wise, to bicycle riding in the city for non-masochists.

  • NYC is all about alternative transit, drivers. If you want a car culture move to LA or Atlanta or the burbs. 9 parking spots over a what, 20 block area? Puleez. And they put the bike lanes on the busiest ave’s because they are the widest, usually.

    Anyway for those of us who get around by bicycle being able to ride in a demarcated bike lane is as close as it gets to feeling “safe” on a bike – drivers (when not ‘standing’ in the bike lanes) usually give cyclists their space.

    Lastly, I don’t run red lights or stop signs and to all the drivers reading this I promise I’m doing my share to get bicyclists to obey the rules at least as often as you do.

  • quote:
    fellow brooklynites:
    dont be afraid to think long term & grander scale! it will inevitably lead you outside the (car) box.

    you do know it’s that kind of holier than thou attitude that makes people not like bicyclists right? and this is coming from someone who has never even had a drivers license!

    *rob*

  • Some of these posters (I suspect they are quite young) sound like the youth brigades in Mao’s China.
    Such ideology and contempt for fellow citizens who do not share the fervor!

  • “NYC is all about alternative transit, drivers. If you want a car culture move to LA or Atlanta or the burbs.”

    In my experience the people who have been in NYC the longest are most likely to have cars (I am / was admittedly and exception to this).
    And if people who own cars use them less, then more parking is needed.

  • Yawn – same old arguement

    “waaah parking in brooklyn is hard”

    “waaah people on bikes run red lights”

    “waaah riding bikes is so suburban”

    that said – bike lane on smith is a bad idea -it will just be a fancy green double parking zone.

  • “Nine parking spots will be lost on Hoyt between Bergen and Wyckoff. Worth the trade?”

    Absolutely. Streets are for moving, not for parking.

  • quote:
    Such ideology and contempt for fellow citizens who do not share the fervor!

    exactly. between the envirofascists, greentards, and food nazis… grrr it’s like fine, do what you want, but stop pushing down everyone elses throats and claiming moral superiority.

    *rob*

  • Minard… “although they also desperately need the license and registration fees.” REALLY?! If that’s the case, why are 60% of the cars in Brooklyn registered in Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Florida, New Jersey, etc etc etc.

    By the way, I own a car. I am fully registered and *insured* at my legal address in Brooklyn. I am also an avid supporter of biking as a VERY valid and much needed transportation alternative in this city. I, myself, am one of these people that prefer a bike over my car for many activities.

    And i will second the fact that parking in Brooklyn is NOT HORRIFIC?! I live in a neighborhood with PLENTY of parking. Just like people say, “Tybur6, don’t bitch about housing costs in prime Brooklyn, look elsewhere!” I will say the same thing to you! If you can’t find a parking spot live somewhere else. That being said, when i drive places all over this fine town… I seldom have trouble finding a spot. In fact, I’ve never found no parking. There’s always parking somewhere relatively nearby.

    The loss of these 9 spots for the storage of *personal property* is a VERY fair trade for the added safety of MANY MANY bikes and pedestrians.

  • Just depends on the neighborhood, tybur. Street parking in Ditmas Park is easy b/c many of the houses have driveways. It is difficult in Park Slope and impossible in BH.

  • Dipster — The same goes for bus lanes. If the city REALLY wants the revenue (and to improve traffic), they would have an army of financially self-sustaining meter maids and tow trucks enforcing double-parking. The could also pay off-duty police to ACTUALLY enforce moving violations. (reckless diving, crazy speeds, no signals, turning right from the left lane, etc.)

  • ETSON — that EXACTLY my point! I chose Ditmas Park because I enjoy my car! If I am attached to my car, why would I choose a neighborhood like Boerum Hill or North Park Slope and then BITCH that there’s no parking!! OF COURSE there’s no parking! Do you own a car in the East Village and then moan about there not being any *free* on street parking? Or have any reaction at all of they removed a 1 or 2 whole parking spots per block?

  • Not buying it, parking is valuable, and 9 spaces is 9 spaces. We are in the year 2010, NOW all of a sudden they need bike lanes !!!

    Please, just ride in the street like every other block.

  • “Not buying it, parking is valuable, and 9 spaces is 9 spaces. We are in the year 2010, NOW all of a sudden they need bike lanes !!!”

    Stop being a cheapo and pay for a garage.

  • By Gross on April 6, 2010 11:31 AM

    “Public space should be divided equally, cars do not have a divine right of more space, why should pedestrians and cyclists not get their fair share of public space.”

    Instead of dividing public space, how about sharing it? At what point in the 150 years or so since bicycles were invented did someone decide that they can’t operate in the same right of way as other vehicles, but need their own segregated space?

    I probably should no better than to respon to all these bike lane threads, but I’ve been bicycling in Brooklyn for a quarter century now without ever feeling a need or desire for dedicated bike lanes.

  • BoerumHill

    Great post, Minard (youth brigades).

    I live a few hundred feet (just around the corner) from the lost spots. It’s already a biatch finding a spot. I can’t believe BSD is parking there on a regular basis. I’ve spent 90 minutes circling the nabe.

    BUT…that was back a few years. I finally realized that the amount of time/gas spent looking for a spot, and the hassle of moving from one side to the other 4 times per week, was just not worth it. So I broke down and got a spot in an outdoor lot. Ironically, the year after I started parking off-street, my block switched from alternate side 4 days per week to 1. Figures.

    Anyway, not a biker, but happy they are pushing for alternative transportation. My car is merely an escape pod, not something that we use daily.

  • 1st, Nonco, don’t call it Bococa …not going to win you any friends and makes you sound like dork trying to be hip.

    and probably is annoying for the residents on the block….
    if really used frequently(bikelane), I would understand but does not seem likely at this location.

  • BoerumHill

    By Petebklyn on April 6, 2010 12:14 PM

    1st, Nonco, don’t call it Bococa …

    Can I get an amen?

    That name (which I refuse to use even in a passing reference) is the epitome of lameness.

    CG is NOT CH, and BH is neither. Did that make sense? Anyway, its dumber than DUMBO.

  • Sparafucile — You’re right on one level. You and I don’t *need* a bike lane. We feel comfortable riding our bikes with traffic.

    However, bike lanes do TWO things. They (1) make biking more accessible to folks that are little more wary than you and I, and (2) the road striping raises the awareness of drivers. No, it doesn’t remove the drivers from the bike lane or prevent them from squishing someone… but the stripes say, “Hey, there may be bikes around here.” A lot like “Caution, Children” signs or whatever.

  • And no, Stargazer, it’s not a sudden need. This has been a need for decades, but is only now finally taking root… need transforming into action. And no, it wasn’t an issue in 1931 because there were FAR fewer cars… there was also a huge network of streetcars that was abandoned for buses around WWII.

    Brooklyn’s density has increased and there has been a crazy increase in traffic over the last 40+ years. Not to mention an increase is crazy drivers (though it’s probably proportional).

  • Encouraging cycling takes people off public transport more than out of cars.

  • “exactly. between the envirofascists, greentards, and food nazis… grrr it’s like fine, do what you want, but stop pushing down everyone elses throats and claiming moral superiority.”

    Rob, please stop spouting this tired old anti-everything. I could equally validly say that by turning over streets exclusively to motor vehicles, drivers are “ramming” their desires over mine.

    But I completely agree with tyburg6…I don’t need a bike lane, I grew up in India and if can bike (or even drive) there you can do so anywhere, but most people are sh*t-scared to ride in traffic. And justifiably so.

  • As Tybur said – bike lanes make drivers more aware of cyclists. Believe it or not – the majority of accidents involving cars and bikes are not due to cyclists riding recklessly – but because drivers simply are not aware of the bikes.

    If these bike lanes save at least one human life – they are well worth the 9 parking spots.

    It’s shocking some of you can sit here and come off like having to drive around for an extra 3 minutes to park your accord isn’t worth making the road safer for your neighbors.

  • bfarwell

    blah blah blah.

    (sorry, that was me [california native, car owner] saving myself the hassle of responding to people freaked out about bikes and bike lanes. really, people. I mean, why do we have sidewalks, why don’t pedestrians just share the road with everyone else?)

    Initially I was agreeing that it seemed a bit odd to put the lane on smith, seeing as how it’s pretty busy. However, for those poor dears complaining about parking, I think it would be more of an inconvenience to remove parking from a residential block (low turnover, people who live there parking there) than it would to remove parking from a commercial thoroughfare like smith.

    That being said, it’s nine spots lost to get a lane that goes how many blocks? 12? SO not a big deal.

  • nobody is removing parking from smith street! there’s one block of hoyt getting its parking removed, in exchange for ~30 blocks of continuous bike lane. good deal!

  • I almost struck a cyclist (I looked I swear) who WASN’T in the bike lane but was on the opposite side of the street altogether. She screamed at me for 15 minutes while I just sat there telling her: “But you have a bike line of the other side of the street.”

    Cyclists and motorists will never get along. (AND I DO BOTH!)

  • let me guess, the chick who screamed at you was also wearing a stupid hat and flip flops and peddling along at 1mph like she’s riding along marthas vinyard? im correct right?

    *rob*

  • Wrong, Butterfly! She was cycling a quite a clip but NOT even in the bike lane. She has a bike lane. She should use it!

  • If you’re in a car and you almost hit ANYTHING you’re either

    A) driving too fast
    B) not paying attention
    C) A and B

  • By dirty_hipster on April 6, 2010 1:15 PM

    “If you’re in a car and you almost hit ANYTHING you’re either

    A) driving too fast
    B) not paying attention
    C) A and B”

    Right. Because children and pets never, ever dart out between parked cars in the middle of a block.

  • there are dedicated bike lanes literally the adjoining two blocks west on Court and Clinton. Both (esp Clinton) are pretty good. Even with a bike lane, I don’t think that I’d want to bike on the sh*tshow that is Smith Street. It’s really narrow and too many double parkers. Hoyt is usually pretty quiet, so not sure why people can’t just bike in the road there.

  • Am I sensing a little class-resentment from the non-autoed?

  • “Am I sensing a little class-resentment from the non-autoed?”

    Probably – but that’s just you being a snob again.

  • CG_ups — Why don’t they just close down Clinton for bikes only? Umm… perhaps because the folks in their cars don’t want to drive 2 blocks away… they want to drive on Clinton because that’s where they want to be. Similarly, if i want to go to Kiku or Bird or whatever other BS there is on Smith Street, I’m not gonna be too psyched about riding up Clinton.

    Secondly, Court Street goes south. Smith Street goes north.

    There’s a bike lane on 5th Ave — why isn’t that enough?

  • Holy moly. I drive down Hoyt to 3rd all the time. There is NOT room for a bike lane. In fact I frequently get stuck behind bikers meandering their way down Hoyt because there is nowhere for them to move to the side – no width beyond car width.

    Sigh.

  • I have a car (i.e., not non-autoed) and I strongly believe there should be standard bike lanes on almost every street and protected (separated) bike lanes for major commuting routes. Guess what, sometimes I use my bicycle not because I want to… but because it’s the BEST MODE OF TRANSPORT. And this should be promoted.

    This isn’t a class issue. It’s a what’s best for a crowded city bursting at the seems issue.

    I also think there should be streetcars for both transportation and economic development reasons (permanency and visibility compared to buses). I think the city government should start looking at the long-term and break free from the Manhattan-centric attitude. Making everything point to one compact area is the easy solution, but it’s not the long-term solution for a diverse and successful city.

    There are sooooo many things that have long-term payoff, but cause immediate or even short-term discomfort… unfortunately we are painfully myopic and self-involved. Can’t see the forest for the trees and all that.

  • This whole bikers v. drivers thing is a bit tired and contrived. Chill, children.

    As to this specific issue: Hoyt is NOT a busy street, so seems you can already ride there fairly safely w/o a lane. And the peak bike commuting hours are precisely the time when Smith is a congested mess of double-parked delivery trucks who will surely ignore the lane. Not that I’m against it, but will these new bike lanes really even accomplish anything??

  • quote:
    There are sooooo many things that have long-term payoff, but cause immediate or even short-term discomfort… unfortunately we are painfully myopic and self-involved. Can’t see the forest for the trees and all that.

    well, to be fair, some of us have no children and plan on never having children and have zero investment in or care about the city for generations to come. we are a small minority, but we do exist.

    ::sprays aerosol wildly!::

    *rob*

  • Dirty:

    I’m not a snob, I’m just a grown-up. Get over yourself.

  • Minard — Just a grown-up? The worst kind apparently. Do what I say, not what I do. I’m the grown-up, this is the right because I say it is!

  • blowfish

    Minard, you lost all cred with Maoist children comment

  • > some of us… have zero investment in or care about the city for
    > generations to come. we are a small minority, but we do exist.

    That reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where George complains, “Is it selfish to want something just for myself?”

    Jerry replies, “I believe that’s the very definition of selfish.”

  • “chick who screamed at you was also wearing a stupid hat and flip flops and peddling along at 1mph like she’s riding along marthas vinyard? im correct right?”

    I KNOW you like to rile up people rob, but get a grip. Pedaling slow is a good way to save yourself…that’s what I do, and yes, in summer I’ve been known to cycle in flipflops. And I cycle as transport and for doing errands, not only to show off.

    Contrary to what you’re saying, it’s the spandex-clad speeders who’re a danger as they go too fast and too full of themselves.

  • Props on the Seinfeld reference. Nice.

    Exactly what this thread needed too: makes a point but also brings some levity … peops always get too heated about the cycling issue…

  • quote:
    Contrary to what you’re saying, it’s the spandex-clad speeders who’re a danger as they go too fast and too full of themselves.

    i agree THEY are the dangerous ones. the ones i described in the dumb sun hats and flip flops are the annoying, oblivious to their surroundings, obnoxious ones.

    *rob*

  • “I’m not a snob, I’m just a grown-up. Get over yourself.”

    i don’t follow your logic. Are you saying everyone who rides a bike doesn’t own an automobile? Are you saying people who have bikes can’t afford an automobile?

    To address your original statement – yes, it IS class resentment, from people like yourself who consider themselves better than someone who chooses to ride a bike – and sees your tax money going towards something you deem as “childish” and not “grown up”

    you get over yourself – your car contributes nothing to this city except noise and pollution.

  • I have a bike, I ride in the street, I do however try to find less traffic streets to ride in though.

    Don’t be cheap, rent a garage…..
    Yeah find me one, last time I looked there wasn’t an abundance of garages for rent….BTW, I’m in Bath Beach, I can park my car with no problem. It’s comming to PS & BH that you can never find a spot.

  • CG_ups, there is NO bike lane on Court Street. Period.

  • on blocks like the one where removing parking for bike lane – Possibly make worse. These are short blocks with traffic lights, stop signs and narrow – so cars don’t drive so fast like on long blocks where wider.
    This could make Hoyt easier to drive faster…bad for both pedestrians and bicycles.
    Bike lanes work okay as routes for commuting type purposes…don’t think this part of Hoyt really qualifies.

  • BY THE WAY… did anyone actually *look* at the DOT proposal? Ya know, before jumping to all of your Negative Nancy conclusions? This was a snap decision. They studied the streets involved, monitored LEGAL double-parking by commercial vehicles, and tried to impose as little change as possible to the existing parking regs.

    Pete — Hoyt would be the southern route from the bridge.

  • infinitejester

    Commuter bikers are people I just do not understand. Even on a sleety night they ride. There’s something in their personalities that prevents them from being able to just take public transportation like others do. It’s a threshold or boundary they just can’t bring themselves to cross.

  • wasder

    Minard–you are a snob of the highest order, almost comically so…

    That being said, this car owner says bring on the bike lanes. I agree that delineation of street space between cars and bikes is crucial to safety (I also bike from time to time).

  • what’s the point of bike lanes? my experience is that bikers don’t use ‘em.

  • infinitejester

    I don’t think Minard was particularly out of line. Many of the daily comments are just as snarky. I detect little real snobbishness.

  • morralkan

    As a non-driver who’s been frequently riding bikes in Brooklyn for the past 40 years, I see little need for bike lanes. Even where they exist, it’s rare that I can go two blocks in one before I need to circle around a double-parked car or one standing in the bike lane. I do not anticipate that even in the bizarro world of the current transportation commissioner, that there will be a bike lane on EVERY city block, so I will have to ride down many streets with no demarcated bike lane and fend for myself.

    On occasion, someone will drive me someplace — in a car, of all things! — and I really get PO’s when I am stuck behind a series of trucks, buses, and paratransit vehicles because the street, which formerly had four lanes of traffic, has been reduced to two to accommodate two bike lanes and or all kinds of medians, turning lanes, and other such foolishness. Even though I am an inveterate bike rider, streets also exist to move traffic along. Commerce is necessary for the city’s economy.

    The only people who seem to be doing well by the vast expansion of bike lanes are the paint manufacturers.

  • yes, worth it. give me a break, 9 spaces is nothing. Parking in general is such a gross waste of public space. It’s public real estate dedicated to personal property that isn’t in use. Cars are so funny really, we spend so much on them and 95+% of the time they just sit there, unused.

    It’s fascinating how fired up drivers get over bike riding and bike lanes. don’t worry, your god-given right own and drive a personal killing machine won’t be taken away.