Lots of Love for the Schermerhorn House

schermerhorn-house-042709.jpg
The Schermerhorn is not your average affordable housing project, as The Times makes abundantly clear in its profile this weekend. (As we put it a couple of weeks ago, “This place is about as sexy as supportive housing gets.”) Stand-out amenities include a gym with floor-to-ceiling windows and a ground-floor performance space. (The Brooklyn Ballet will be the anchor tenant.) Designed by Polshek Partnership Architects, the 217-unit building will end up being split fairly evenly between arts-related professionals who don’t make a lot of dough and those who qualify for supportive housing, typically the formerly homeless and others in need of help. The interior photo in The Times story is pretty darn slick for this type of thing, seeming to confirm our suspicions that lack of creativity and resourcefulness is usually more to blame than small budgets when ugly new buildings are put up.
New Homes for a Varied Cast [NY Times]
Schermerhorn House 1/3-Rented [Brownstoner]
Development Watch: Schermerhorn House Nears Completion [Brownstoner]
Development Watch: Schermerhorn House Gets Its Skin [Brownstoner] GMAP
Development Watch: 160 Schermerhorn Tops Out [Brownstoner] P*Shark
Development Watch: Schermerhorn House Rising [Brownstoner] DOB
Some More 411 on the “Schermerhorn House” [Brownstoner]

0 Comment

  • i guess it just proves that even the homeless need to work out. :-/ i had slight issues with this until someone in another thread about it last week corrected me as to what qualifies as being “in the arts”. im all for affordable housing though. all in all i think it’s a good thing. tho for the life of me i will never understand how someone who works in the “arts” can get preferential treatment than someone who works at duane reade (and i work in the arts btw).

    *rob*

  • rob- the arts get very little support overall in this country. Most people in the arts are poor but they contribute a great amount to society. And most of what they contribute fuel financial engines of commerce. Think of the world without art. Not a good place- in fact I think Dante described it fairly well. The artists- who are actually the people who need the support- don’t “work in the arts.” They are the arts. Art administrators certainly make far more money- and are who I think “work in the arts” refers to.

    As far as the gym goes- they should have access to one. It’s healthier for them and makes them feel better. I’m not sure why even the most basic amenities bothers ou about this. Being homeless doesn’t make you subhuman. And remember too- a lot of homeless people are men and women who have served in the military and suffer because of it. Especially those who came back from Vietnam. The statistics are very sobering and sad.

  • >> As far as the gym goes- they should have access to one.

    The Dodge YMCA is two blocks away.

  • quote:

    Most people in the arts are poor

    absolutely 100 percent wrong on that. most people in the arts, from what i have seen for years and years, are that they are NOT poor and come from well to do families and most get family support financially. otherwise they wouldn’t be “artists” and get a job that pays more. seriously. i don’t fall for the “starving artist” mystique. this aint the 1920s. (tho it may be very shortly)

    *rob*

  • “The interior photo in The Times story is pretty darn slick for this type of thing, seeming to confirm our suspicions that lack of creativity and resourcefulness is usually more to blame than small budgets when ugly new buildings are put up.”

    This is definitely a decent step forward (architecturally) for affordable housing) but without knowing the cost per square foot I don’t know how it can it “confirm your suspicions”. It could be that this was built for $300/sqft. rather than $200/sqft (more typical). While not always the case, budget does influence the look of the building.

  • I’ve been in the arts for years and years too, rob. I can’t tell you the number of people I know who barely get by – and many of them do support themselves with other jobs. Still doesn’t make them rich. I would guess at the place you work you deal mostly with artists who have reached a certain level of recognition and therefore income. Those are the lucky ones. Believing your personal experience is the whole story is 100% wrong.

    smudge- change that username to begrudge.

  • Note that these are small studios. These are not spacious apartments. Rent is pegged to income. I personally think that a building with this kind of mix of residents and an arts organization in the use ground floor space is a great idea. The Actors Fund is involved in this so you are going to have electricians and etc. in the mix. It is not a matter of “starving artists” or “trust fund artists”–many in the arts are actually somewhere in the middle. They are involved in some creative pursuit but usually have a “rent job” of some sort. If they are successful or rich they won’t be qualifying for these apartment. In this particular case, they will be people who DO work and make approx 20-30K per year. What’s the big deal about a gym, anyway? I have a feeling it is a bunch of exercise machines; not Equinox.

  • ccarol gardens – i was just about to add that same info from the Time. Thanks for clarifying. I know someone in the performing arts, admisntrative actually who earns shockingly little for his level and the time he puts in. So I also have to clarify that working in a not-for-profit arts organization will never make you rich. In fact you usually earn less than the average.

  • why can’t they just get roommates like everyone else has to do? why subsidize them just because they are “in the arts” to have a nice brand new spanking studio apartment with a gym? whatever, call it what it is, but i personally think it’s unfair.

    *rob*

  • There are plenty of people who are “in the arts,” who, rather than thinking they are entitled to a handout or subsidy, have Monday to Friday jobs that pay the rent.

    If you want to be a full-time artist and can’t afford the rent, move to Buffalo or Oklahoma City or a hundred other places, where a nice share will run you $300 a month, and you can probably rent studio space for a couple of bucks a square foot.

  • if you read the article in the times its more sepcific. Many of these people in the arts are freelancers who form the crews for theater productions on Broadway, or tv and film. If they leave NYC, you can kiss Broadway, and any other performance goodbye. And all the money they generate.

  • yeah but that still doesnt negate the fact that they can get roommates LIKE EVERYONE ELSE WHO CANT AFFORD THEIR OWN LXURY STUDIO WITH FLOOR TO CEILING WINDOWS AND A PRIVATE GYM. spare me, please.

    *rob*

  • rob- did you even read the Tines and the descriptions? These are NOT luxury studios.

  • Who cares Rob. If you want a city that does not subsidize their arts as much – move to another ‘heartland’ city. You moved to NYC, you should know by now that this city prides itself in sponsoring the arts – which I rather do than paying for GM or Chrysler or (bank name here).

  • seems pretty “luxury” to me.

    *rob*

  • cry me a river crimson. real artists create stuff, they dont expect handouts which is exactly what this building is. you can sugar coat it all you want, but in the end this is nothing more than a stupid entitlement program for people who work in the arts. no one still has yet to answer why these “creative types” and i use that term loosely cant get roommates or second jobs like everyone else in the arts does.

    *rob*

  • Such petty envy is so unbecoming.

  • I fear for you, rob. They’re new and clean and nicely designed for compact living. But trust me- a one room studio is not luxury living. I know that for a fact.

  • hells yeah im envious! i want to live in that building too! lol. i still think it’s massively unfair. i think it’s great for the homeless and people who are TRULY down on their luck but someone who makes 20k-30k in the arts can just go live in bushwick with some roommates like all the other artists do.

    *rob*

  • I think it’s a great idea to peg some more affordable housing to creative professionals! Some years ago a friend who had recently graduated from the sculpture department at Berkley was delighted to find publically subsidized housing and studio space in Oakland. ALthough she also had a job, were it not for the subsidy she would never have been able to afford both an apartment and a work studio. She’s now working in both sculpture and landscape design.

    Not all artisits have family resources to fall back on. As things have gotten more and more expensive, NYC has fewer and fewer artists. This is very good thing since existing subsidized housing for creatives – Westbeth, other aprtments in the theater district, seldom become available.

  • Rob why don’t you research it?
    You are complaining yet asking for others to do the work yourself. :/
    http://www.actorsfund.org/services/Housing/Schermerhorn_House/index_html

  • East New York

    “i guess it just proves that even the homeless need to work out.”

    If they live here, they’re not longer homeless.

    “otherwise they wouldn’t be “artists” and get a job that pays more.”

    What’s your excuse?

  • there are plenty of other buildings with apts where rent is pegged to income if you qualify and don’t have to be in’arts’.
    So if qualify – go apply.

  • BTW – nice way to trivialize being an artist
    “real artists create stuff, they dont expect handouts”

    Maybe you should drop your current job and pursue the arts fully if you really want to live here?

  • crimon that doesnt even make sense. excuuuuuuse me for having a differing opinion about what it means to be an artist, hand-outs, and life style.

    personally i think ex reality tv show contestants should have their own subsizided building then. why stop there!? how about out of work ex child actors?

    like i said it’s unfair that just because someone works in an industry tangentially related to the arts gets a subsidy then say a bartender, hair dresser, or drug store clerk making the same amount of money.

    if people really are invested in the arts they will find a way to persue their art. yeah id LOVE to have a cheap ass subsidized new construction apartment so i can persue something creative too! why not!

    and i am VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY pro-arts. but i am very VERY VERY VERY VERY against this building. and i will rally against it the best way i can.

    *rob*

  • I don’t understand the never ending need to begrudge people some small emenities in life. “They” always seem to be out there, getting things “we” really wouldn’t want or need or even use, but there is always that resentment that someone out there is getting something they shouldn’t. It just isn’t FAIR!

    First of all, the problem with the way we see “the arts” is severely colored by the small 5% of actors, dancers, painters, sculptors, directors, and administrators, etc, etc who are sucessful, famous and wealthy. That’s five percent. The remaining 95% range the gamut from making a good living down to destitute, with most arts people on the lower end of the scale. The arts affect all of our lives. I’m not just talking about movies or tv, but everything from our packaging to the internet itself, to popular and world culture, to museums and street fairs. The work of the arts is everywhere, and without it, we would have a society as culturally nurturing as the Taliban.

    More importantly to this discussion, so what if they have a gym? So what if someone gets a break and can move into a studio smaller than half a subway car? Why begrudge them? There are lots of people walking around who are “luckier” than I am, and got opportunities and advantages I never had, and plenty of people out there who aren’t as smart as I am, or perhaps as deserving as I may feel I am, who have things I would like to have. Boo hoo. Even the worst off of us on this blog are privileged compared to most of the world, we should stop being envious of people who have things we don’t really even want, and we should concentrate on bettering ourselves, by ourselves. We are all capable of making our futures better.

    Someone who hasn’t had a break in life, or is working like a dog in an underfunded, unappreciated, but necessary field of any kind, from assistant to the assistant gaffer, to a local theatre company office worker, to a home care attendant making minimum wage with a 60 hour week, deserves a helping hand. If a group chooses to help them, chooses to build a building to house them, chooses to give that building a few amenites, and an attractive design, then God bless them, and God bless the recipients. Would that more could help and be helped. That’s what we’re supposed to be doing, especially now.

  • > “and i am VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY pro-arts.”

    This from the guy who, just last week, said the Brooklyn Museum sucked, and that he did not care about art.

    LOL.

  • omg slope, what is your point? i am very pro art i just find it blah. big deal! and my version of art is very different than a lot of people peoples.

    *rob*

  • East New York

    “and i will rally against it the best way i can.”

    Yeah, right. You’re not going to do anything but talk sh#t about it on this blog. You’re a quitter and a sore loser who’s focusing his frustration on others because you don’t have what it takes to get things done yourself. You’re a joke.

  • oooooooh burn :-/

    not

    *rob*

  • > omg slope, what is your point?

    My point – and I do have one, you should try it some time – is that you opine incessantly about things about which you know absolutely nothing.

  • Havemeyer

    Perhaps he is, but I agree with him on this point. I am not really into arts subsidies, unless they’re artists involved in WPA-style projects, which, by the way, it’d be nice if we had. But subsidizing Sarah Lawrence grads who want to do black box theater that looks exactly like Richard Foreman’s stuff? Eh, no. Let them get roommates and eat cake.

  • “yeah id LOVE to have a cheap ass subsidized new construction apartment ”

    “yeah but that still doesnt negate the fact that they can get roommates LIKE EVERYONE ELSE WHO CANT AFFORD THEIR OWN LXURY STUDIO WITH FLOOR TO CEILING WINDOWS AND A PRIVATE GYM. spare me, please.”

    So which is it rob? luxury studio or cheap ass subsidized new construction? It can’t be both.

  • same thing. i didnt say CHEAP construction. i said living ON the cheap with a subsidy. it’s still new construction, it’s still super nice and luxiourious. and thanks heather for agreeing with me on this. i cant believe not a single person can even see where im coming from on this issue. and alol at the sarah lawrence grad comment haha

    *rob*

  • I think ENY sees exactly where you’re coming from.

  • Heather- that’s what the application process is for. The arts are enormously important to NYC and they can’t survive on their own (unlike the CFO’s and CEO’s we’re bailing out these days.)

    Theater, Performance, art exhibitions, film production are require skilled craftsmen and laborers. These people are necessary but are not making much money. Most artists never make much money- your experiences aside, rob. You just don’t know.

  • oh but i DO know. and why cant they get roommates like everyone else? why are they so entitled to have their own studio apartments and a gym in a gorgeous new construction apartment? oh yeah that’s right, no one can really answer THAT question. i dont argue with you at ALL that the arts are important in this city, but if you choose to work in the arts that is your choice. you shouldnt get your own luxury projects.

    *rob*

  • Why do people automatically assume that the building is full of Sarah Lawrence grads, or some other form of suburban dilletantes?

    Does anyone know who will be living there? I don’t think so. So why assume it’s the “undeserving” hipster Richard Serra wannabe? More than likely, the building will house more former homeless folks than soap opera actors, more recovering addicts than Jackson Pollock clones. The people “in the arts” will be vigorously screened, and their incomes factored into their rents, as the article says. They may end up paying as much as in a more traditional situation. Sheesh.

    You want to rail against subsidies? Take to the streets about the bazillions of dollars in corporate welfare, tax breaks to the wealthy, and public funding of private developer’s projects. Not complaining about a handful of people living in tiny studio apartments, the aquisition of those apartments being about the only good thing in life that’s ever happened to them.

  • rob is right that there isn’t a compelling reason to offer cheap housing to low-income people in the arts vs. low-income people in other professions. there are plenty of lines of work that are important to the city and you could make an argument for subsidizing all of them.

    on the other hand, mm is right that there isn’t a compelling reason to object to a developer’s desire to direct half of the housing in a modest development to low-income artists. if that’s what they want to do with the building, and that standard doesn’t indirectly discriminate in any impermissible fashion (race, gender, etc.), then what’s the big deal?

  • Rob, what article or fact are you basing this rant on? These are very small studio apartments in a crowded building. Look at the photo, and the description. There is no room in these studios for more than the basics necessary, and most everything is packed into storage compartments and built-ins. This is NOT luxury living. You can smell cooking in the hallways, and you can probably hear a fly on your neighbor’s walls. I’m sure the gym, which I have never heard you ever mention being a priority in life before, has a few machines and room for floor exercise. It’s not the New York Athletic Club. The building will hold a couple hundred people. Hardly living it up for the majority of people in the arts in this city, who number in the thousands, and mostly do live with roommates, or in less desireable parts and apartments in the city.

    This jealousy over someone’s good fortune is really unbecoming and tiresome. You make enough to share an apt in one of the most desireable neighborhoods in the city. If you aren’t happy, you have options. Just be glad someone less fortunate is able to catch a break, move on, and make your own breaks. ‘Nuff said.

  • Havemeyer

    You know who else doesn’t make a lot of money? Your nanny and the person who cleans for you. MTA workers. Teachers. Secretaries. Grad Students. And so on. I am not against subsidies, I am against subsidizing housing for artists. The slots should be open to all comers — which would produce an actual diverse population, instead of a faux-diverse one.

  • quote:
    Why do people automatically assume that the building is full of Sarah Lawrence grads, or some other form of suburban dilletantes?

    im not assuming that at all. it was just a JOKE that heather made. i assume it will be people in the arts making 20-30k per year. i dont think they should be subsidized and i stand by it. i dont care if they grew up in abject poverty or came from beverly hills.

    *rob*

  • benson

    I fully agree with Heather and Rob. Heather’s last statement hit the nail right on the head.

  • From the article it appears as if it is non-profits rather than NYC directly that is subsidizing this. If that is indeed the case and there is not a large amount of tax $$ involved then I am cool with it.
    I don’t believe in things such as this being heavily government subsidized. This is mainly because it is dangerous to have the government involved in approving certain arts and artists and by implication disapproving or rejecting others.
    Privately run non-profits are free to do what they wish with their funds, on the other hand, and I don’t think ‘fairness’ comes into it if it is privately financed for the most part.

  • Havemeyer

    I will concur, it was a joke. After all, some of them probably went to Hampshire, Bard, Reed, Vassar…

    In the first few heady years of my existence in this fair city, I did have the opportunity to meet a few established artists, and I don’t remember any of them being in subsidized housing except for one Westbeth legacy.

  • But Z
    how much of the arts is subsidize?
    When budget crisis happens, what is usually cut first both in terms of service and education? Arts.

    Job training resources means non artistic skill sets like word processing, spreadsheet, etc.

    Why do they have non profit organizations for specific diseases?
    Why have an organization for specific trades?

    BTW – isn’t this a private endeavor. Other than the tax breaks, which ALL non profit gets anyway, what the hell is anyone’s problem?

  • MTA workers and teachers are in unions. They make decent base salaries and have great benefits.

    The arts and humanities are given short shrift in the schools. they don’t get subsidies or salaries like A-rod or Derek Jeter. Yet the arts are not only good for our souls, but- for those of you worried about money- they generate millions of dollars, and a nice chunk of it goes into the NYC coffers. Its about the economy. So when we don’t have lighting techicians, costumers, new artists, conservators etc. necessary to the arts, who will we blame? If this country- or even this city put 1/100th of the money the Ratners,or the sports teams get, into arts organizations they could pay people real wages.

    Are the arts less important than nannies? How much do nannies contribute to society in general compared to the arts?

  • “The slots should be open to all comers — which would produce an actual diverse population, instead of a faux-diverse one.”

    When you buy a parcel of land and develop it into an affordable housing project, you can open it to all newcomers.

    Until that times comes, this developer choose to open it to artists and the formerly homeless.

    Since when did the Brownstoner crowd become Communists?

  • Wait, isn’t rob the one a few months back who confessed that he is completely delinquent on gov’t financed student loans but was out buying video games? Seems like a pretty tough spot from which to rail against subsidies for pretty much anyone.

    Don’t really see the big deal as there is other subsidized housing available for all professions. Having one that’s artist-centric doesn’t seem like such a big deal. But I’d also be happy if there was one for nurses, and another for teachers, etc. Seems like a cool idea.

  • “MTA workers. Teachers. Secretaries.”

    MTA workers make 40K, 50K, 60K and up depending on the job.

    Teachers in NYC start in the mid 40′s.

    Secretaries…the good ones…can make upwards of 40K and 80K to be an administrative assistant.

    The starting salary at Carnegie Hall is 25K. In 2009.

    The salary for the General Manager of XYZ Dance Company in NYC is about 40K. That’s a job that involves 5-10 years experience.

    Most of the jobs at BAM pay in the low 30′s.

    To compare the absolutely abysmal rates of funding for arts jobs as the MTA or Teacher’s Unions just means you don’t know what you’re talking about. Trash men in NYC can make up to 50 or 60K a year after a few years.

    Do you know how long it would take to work up the ladder in “the arts” to make that salary? Roughly 10 years on average, I’d say.

  • benson

    11217, Bxgrl, cromsonson and all;

    The “non-profits” in this town are all heavily subsidized by government. Many are nothing more than financial intermediaries of government money.

    So, when government money is used to build housing, I’ll certainly speak up. If this were truly private money, then it would be none of my business (as Etson said). Since it is not, however, I speak up and once again, I think Heather’s statement above is succinct, and to the point.

    Come on, you’re accusing ME of being a communist, Mr. “Red State exiled in NYC”???
    ;-)

  • Havemeyer

    “Are the arts less important than nannies? How much do nannies contribute to society in general compared to the arts?”

    Hang out at a gentrified playground sometime during the day and it may provide your answer. In other words, I would say they contribute a great deal more.

  • I agree with a lot of Rob says (for once).

    I’m all for preferential housing for people in the arts. Certainly it provides so much for our community. Would also like to see it for people who work with the elderly. For people who care for our animals. For people stuck in mindless jobs answering the phone for a bunch of jackasses because they’re still repaying a bill for an operation they had in 2002.

    People who work in the arts for no money do so because they have a passion for their work. That’s far more than most people in the working world have.

  • Good one, Heather.

    For a nanosecond, I thought you might be serious.

  • You don’t go to an art school or conservatory to hone your craft for 4-8 years to become a Nanny.

    I could be a Nanny starting tomorrow.

    That’s not to say I don’t value nannies, but the special skills invovled are being a nice person and good with kids…(most decent human beings could be a nanny).

    I’m not a religious person at all, but some people were given incredible talents which should be shared with others.

    Places like this help those people to share their art with others.

    Some of you have put “art” in such a small little box.

    There might be the next Pavarotti staying in this place for a few months or years, giving him a start in his musical life and going on to touch millions of people around the world with their music.

    And that’s the same as the Nanny down at the playground changing Madison’s diaper…?

  • “Mr. “Red State exiled in NYC”???”

    Are you referring to me, because I’m from one of the bluest states in the Union…

  • Even if i did qualify to live in this buildling i wouldn’t – it’s ugly, on a crappy block and will be full of artists – bleh.

  • I say that’s a stretch, Heather. the wealthy can afford nannies, so what’s your point?

    benson- ever go to a show? Ever go to a museum? Care about history? Care about the disabled, the mentally ill, the poor? Ever think we wasted millions (not to mention the lives it devastated in 2 countries- ours and Iraq)on the war in Iraq? Did you speak out about that? Your worry over this building being subsidized is the equivalent of Nero fiddling while Rome burned.At least I have the confidence of knowing the money for subsidized artist housing goes for something positive.

  • benson

    11217;

    I was referring to myself!

  • Havemeyer

    30K, 40K, 60K. Even 80K. It doesn’t really matter. None of those incomes are sufficient to rent any of the new construction built in downtown Brooklyn. I think a secretary making 50K has just as much of a right to an affordable apartment as some lighting guy at BAM. Well, okay, possibly more, but that is my own bias.

    Me agreeing with Benson AND Rob is rare, but it can happen.

    What I honestly think, (and maybe the What could say it more colorfully), is that the developer didn’t want the standard “low-income” housing, especially with the stigma of housing the formerly homeless added to that, because that would basically leave them with “projects,” so they threw in “arts” subsidies to cherry pick the kind of tenants they want.

    Since much of the affordable housing for people that have lived in downtown Brooklyn for ages has all been torn down, this seems especially sad.

  • “Are the arts less important than nannies? How much do nannies contribute to society in general compared to the arts?”

    oh come on. nannies play a key role in raising children, which is a pretty damned important contribution to society. by contrast, people in the arts create things that are luxuries — movies, tv, music, paintings — that are nearly always expendable from a basic needs standpoint, and that are frequently total crapola.

    sneering down on other professions isn’t helping your cause.

  • It’s absolutely shocking to me that some people on this blog don’t seem to understand that without the arts, New York City is nothing.

    Some seem to like to say the same about Wall Street. You know what…NYC will be just fine with a scaled back Wall Street.

    This city would cease to exist as we know it without artists. From Broadway to the MET, Lincoln Center to the Williamsburg and Gowanus Music Scenes. To the costume designers for Sex and the City to Mercedez Benz Fashion Week and everything in between.

    Art is what keeps this city alive. If you don’t realize that by now, you are rather clueless.

    I can’t say the same for life without nannies. Without them, rich people would have to watch their own kids and buy a smaller house. Not the end of the world.

  • “The “non-profits” in this town are all heavily subsidized by government. Many are nothing more than financial intermediaries of government money.”

    Yeah that includes medical research and services, children services, education, rent control/stabilized housing programs, shelters, tax breaks for religious institutions, etc.etc

    I am in good health, agnostic, don’t have children, paid for school with my own money and don’t live in RC/RS.

    With that logic, we should eliminate all of them.

  • benson

    Z;

    Uh-oh! Saying that some artists produce crapola!! You better go back into exile for a while!!
    ;-)

    PS: I agree.

  • Z
    You have a narrow definition and role of the arts. A $100 million movie is not quite the same as a $10k documentary about genocide in Africa.

  • Oh sorry Benson!!

    You all are making this place out to be the Plaza.

    Artist or not, how many of you in Brownstoner Land would want to live in the same building as a bunch of formerly homeless people. Yet you are making it seem like this place is a new construction Eden. This will not be a glamorous life in the Schemerhorn house. It will be surviving for those who live there.

    z – you are crazy if you are trying to say that nannies are vital to society and the arts aren’t. nannies are for rich people. you do realize that MOST people on this planet raise their own children, correct…?

  • > “Uh-oh! Saying that some artists produce crapola!!”

    I think we can all agree that 99% of the art produced is crapola.

    But we’ll never agree on what the good 1% is.

  • “people in the arts create things that are luxuries”

    Perhaps to you. I don’t consider art a luxury. It is a part of my being and of utmost importance next to food, clothing and shelter.

    And I was raised without a nanny. My parents would have considered A NANNY to be the ULTIMATE luxury.

    But that just shows how out of touch you are with reality.

  • Havemeyer

    11217, it’s obvious from your post that you are not a working parent in New York City whose employer requires them to return to work after six weeks, or, if you are lucky, four months.

  • I would hope that would be obvious, Heather.

    That doesn’t make nannies any less a “luxury” than the arts.

    Are you people for real? You are really at the point of claiming that nannies are a necessity?

    If you need to go back to work, then you should have bought a 500K home instead of a million dollar one if you truly consider a nanny a necessity.

  • “It’s absolutely shocking to me that some people on this blog don’t seem to understand that without the arts, New York City is nothing.”

    Not that I would really know – but isn’t NYC pretty insignicant when it comes to the arts nowadays? I’ve read articles and heard from friends that other more affordable cities have a more thriving arts scene. Perhaps more buildings like this will help stimulate creativity in this city which seems to have shifted more to a playground for rich euros/finance types over the past 10+ years.

  • I don’t get the argument that the arts require a subsidy because they are “essential”.
    First – not all arts do get subsidies, only those which meet certain tastes.
    Second – if they were that essential to people in general then they would be self-funding.

  • “11217, it’s obvious from your post that you are not a working parent in New York City whose employer requires them to return to work after six weeks, or, if you are lucky, four months.”

    Honestly by the amount of daily posts on this blog from
    “working mothers” and those who are out of work, I’m almost surprised how anything could be so obvious anymore.

  • “I don’t consider art a luxury. It is a part of my being and of utmost importance next to food, clothing and shelter.

    And I was raised without a nanny. My parents would have considered A NANNY to be the ULTIMATE luxury.

    But that just shows how out of touch you are with reality.”

    LOL!!!! why don’t you tell some hungry children in africa that art is a “part of your being” and right up there with food, clothing, and shelter. they will tell you exactly who is out of touch with reality.

    (and yes, a nanny is a luxury too, just like listening to jazz on your ipod or reading books at a cafe or looking at a board mounted on a wall covered with glue and ten thousand coils of the artist’s pubes.)

  • > “isn’t NYC pretty insignicant when it comes to the arts nowadays?”

    NYC is losing it’s role and an incubator, as a place for emerging artists. The cost of living and lack of affordable housing, studio and performance space are the obvious reasons why.

    If the trend continues, we will become a museum city only, a venue for art by the famous and the dead only.

    And what a shame that would be.

  • Havemeyer

    Whether you buy a 500K home or a million-dollar one, the amount you pay your nanny is probably the same — and thus her (it is always her) ability to pay her own rent.

    Personally, no, I don’t think nannies are a necessity, I don’t have one. But while I think daycare is great for 2 year olds, for infants it can be a little hectic, and, in my experience, many parents choose to have a nanny at that stage even if it costs them half their salary.

  • “oh come on. nannies play a key role in raising children, which is a pretty damned important contribution to society. by contrast, people in the arts create things that are luxuries — movies, tv, music, paintings — that are nearly always expendable from a basic needs standpoint, and that are frequently total crapola. ”

    As if nannies create good people? Hardly think so. People in the arts create luxuries? Sure I need a sandwich more than I need a painting, but that’s if we we still hunter-gathers. We’re not. The arts are important to what we are as human beings. As for what’s crapola- don’t blame artists for that. They reflect society in general. Crapola people- crapola art.

    Sure a secretary or a nanny has a right to a decent place to live- who doesn’t- so in the vein of rob’s comments, let them find roommates and live in less expensive neighborhoods. Why should I subsidize an apartment for a nanny who workd for a rich Park Slope family over a place for a lighting technician who works at a Broadway show I enjoyed. Let the parents pay their nannies decent salaries or- again in the same vein as rob- let those parents not have children until they can afford to raise them themselves.

  • 11217 -my friend! I just want to say nannies are not for just the rich anymore – they have become a necessity for working parents.

    If i was to have a baby within the next year – I would only be allowed 3 months off from my job at 75% pay. Then b/c i am the breadwinner, I would have to return to work. So who will watch my baby? Both our moms are sorta far away. I WOULD have to have a nanny as both of us need to work.

    and I make less than 90K a year working in the Record Biz

  • “LOL!!!! why don’t you tell some hungry children in africa that art is a “part of your being” and right up there with food, clothing, and shelter. they will tell you exactly who is out of touch with reality.”

    The difference is that I’m supportive of this development and you turned it around and tried to say nannies are a necessity.

    You clearly haven’t been to Africa either, or you’d know that some of their music and art making is what SUSTAINS them through their horrible ordeals with death and famine.

    Music and Art are INTEGRAL to their daily life.

    You are simply ignorant, and for that, I can not be upset.

  • more4less

    if this all private $$$, what’s there to say – it’s private $$$ and their choice. If this is public $$$, then heck yeah it’s up for debate, criticism, etc. There are tons of people with BIG needs in this city. So when those people are locked out and only ARTIST can apply, that’s crap. Not saying artist does deserve this but to say others are NOT APPLICABLE – that’s crap, crap, crap.

    I didn’t come to this city, stay in this city, like this city simply because of the arts. if artists are gone from the city, yeah I would miss them. Missing them is one thing but I aint buying that NYC would be poop with out them. I don’t want to diminish the value artists are to the city but let’s not overstate the value either.

  • But in Africa they do not get large amounts of government $$ for their “music and art making”.

  • Absolutely agree, snark. Ergo the need for support.

  • Calm down people – we’re all important and deserve cheap housing.

  • Wasn’t Stuy town and Cooper village initially set up for City workers (FDNY,Teachers etc)??

    I don’t have a problem with this bldg as it’s helping out one integral part of NYC attain low cost housing. I would like to see more developers also creating housing for other important sectors of folks

  • Gemini,

    A lot of the people moving into this development would consider 90K a year rich. I know we’re all a little jaded here in NYC, but nannies are not the norm in the “real world”, yes I know people who use them and to each his/her own, but they are not a necessity. People who choose to have children work around these issues if they see fit. Instead today, some people like to say that having someone else essentially raise your child is a necessity, but I’m personally not buying it. If I had to work all day to support my life, I wouldn’t have a child.

  • etson- there are a number of nonprofits working in Africa to help them make their art and music into self-sustaining businesses. One of them was on TV recently, that enabled women to make jewelry by rolling paper beads. They then began marketing them in the US and did it so brilliantly, they have helped these women and their families to build houses and they are now learning business and agricultural skills (the organization has provided this) to become even more independent. All from art.

  • “If I had to work all day to support my life, I wouldn’t have a child.”

    If i worked in the “arts” and couldn’t afford to live comfortably without a handout – i would move to a different city.

  • Bxgrl,
    I am not disputing the intrinsic merits of art and music at all. More power to those women, and I would be happy to buy their jewelry.
    Just don’t see why certain forms of art and music require government subsidies. My point to 11217 was that creativity is natural and will happen anyway without large taxpayer handouts.

  • bxgirl sometimes i seriously think you have mad cognitive disorders. and 11217 is just too much for words. i completely picture him furiously typing his posts sighing and clucking and stomping his feet. (in a long blond wig)

    *rob*

  • more4less

    just checked out the units & location, would definitely live there cause “there” is a ton better than other alternatives that one can get for low low rent.

  • Bxgrl:

    Loving your posts today. There are also all of these Afghan and Iraqui women who are being taught how to make these gorgeous hand-knotted (and hand dyed) rugs and turn them into self sustaining businesses.

    Unfortunately, too many people on this blog think of “art” as those skinny guys down at Gorilla coffee “writing” on their macs.

  • well I am not saying I would be a good candidate to live in that building. Well, if I can put my kid into daycare that’s trustworthy and inexpensive I could do that as well – but yes for me and for most parents in NYC area – those are your options when you have to return to work and you have a young child?

    I think you are sort of unrealistic about the working parent and who takes care of a baby when both parents have to return to work.
    How do you think babies are taken care of when parents return to work? and are you suggesting,the only people who should be having kids are the people that can afford to not work for 5 years until that kid goes to school?

  • That’s funny Rob…because I’m picturing you sitting there with your mouth open, drooling with one of those big cartoon bubbles over your head.

    Except it’s empty.

  • 90 K is a pretty nice salary. And getting 75% wile you’re off taking care of a newborn? I don’t have much sympathy- lots of us live on far far less, and never had any maternity leave benefits. It’s like crying with a loaf of bread in your mouth.

    The arts are an important part of NYC- not the only important part, to be sure. But NYC would be a far grimmer, bleaker place without them. And without the money the arts generate, NYC would be much poorer.

  • “but yes for me and for most parents in NYC area”

    You know I love you Gemini, but if you think that 51% of New Yorkers have nannies, you need to leave Park Slope a little more often. ;-)

  • another thing, “nannies” sound terrible cuz well they are called nannies. 10 years ago those people were not “nannies” they were called baby sitters which is esentially what they are. real nannies breast feed. the term was stolen by a subset of people who thought the term baby sitter was beneathe them.

    *rob*

  • Whoa! everyone – I said I make less than 90K – I am actually not making even close to 90K – I wasn’t interested in telling a blog what I really make – but it’s a lot less than 90K and was trying to prove my point that even someone like me who’s NOT making loads of money would consider getting a nanny.

  • Most people I know “outside of NYC” either stay home and take care of their own child if that’s possible for one parent, and where it’s not possible, they either go to daycare (as little as possible) or the parents watch the child, or one of the parents looks for options which involve working from home, etc etc etc. They are creative and think about these options before they have a child.

    I will NEVER understand why someone has a child to to then have a total stranger take care of it for 8-10 hours a day. I’m not saying it’s bad, and I guess in some cases it’s a necessity, but people outside of NYC seem to make more concessions when having a child, but here it’s life as usual. The baby is like a purse…something to have and take out when you please.

    I’m speaking about the “nanny is a necessity” people, not NYC mothers in general.

  • rob- and I think you’re usually an imbecile, so I guess we’re even.

    Thanks, 11217- they must be a rsult of my mad cognitive disorders, as per rob., who as we know has the social assessment skills of a turnip.

  • 51 percent of parents dont have nannies but i can guarantee you that 51 person have baby sitters. see my post above about the artificial term nanny.

    *rob*

  • more4less

    firemen or artists? firemen
    policemen or artists? policemen
    veterans or artists? veterans
    nannies or artists? nannies
    teachers or artists? teachers

    not asking people to agree but artists don’t rank that high on some people’s preferences and that’s not to say artists are not important but just lower on the list. IF public $$$ is involved (ie my tax paymts) then heck yeah I would have an opinion and opinion is it CRAP when others with big needs are excluded from cheap housing. I would say the same if this building was only APPLICABLE to firemen, policemen, etc.

  • Ok then can someone please (who is a parent) please please tell me who is taking care of your kid when you and your partner are at work?
    yes I know about nannies and daycare centers -but please enlighten me?????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    my mother was a NYC teacher and my father a payroll cleark at Eagle Elctric in Queens in the 70′s making no money at all.
    They both had to work – guess who took care of me…yes the nanny.

  • rob- a baby sitter is someone you hire for a few hours for one to several days a week. A nanny essentially helps you raise your child. Another example of your opinion outrunning your facts.

  • Havemeyer

    Geez, maybe I should have used “bartender” as an example instead of “nanny.”

    Gemini, you can find daycare if you look around for about $800/month. (You can also find it for $2,000 a month or more, but I suggest looking.)

    The exalted model of the artist is a false one though. The set designer at Alice Tully or whatever doesn’t “reflect society.” Broadway shows close if they don’t make money. Fine artists get trendy, get a lot of attention that has nothing to do with their actual product, and never have to wake up at 5AM to commute to a soul-deadening job (making this an attractive prospect for everyone). Fashion Week and the stylists that brought us the Design Within Reach catalog for interiors aren’t changing our world in any way that matters. I’m not saying any of this is bad — who wouldn’t want to design wallpaper? Just, again — NOT. Special.

  • bxgrl, that person constructing sets on broadway you were worried about is union too.

    everything on broadway is union

  • you dont live in england and i doubt that person breastfed you! it wasnt a nanny it was a baby sitter. grrrrrrr some issues really get to me! this being one of them!

    *rob*

  • nice to have you back 11217! Nothing is better to spark debate then when you state your personal preferences as gospel!

  • most artists (99 percent of them) are obnoxious and annoying anyway. so maybe this is a blessing in diguise. let them live with the homeless and former crackheads. i hope all their expensive ipods and macs get stolen. yeah im cranky today, so what!

    *rob*

  • 11217 -sorry to take you to task – but WHOA NELLY! – I think you are way off on that last post at 1:26

    I would LOVE to work from home – but guess what I am one of those record company peons who have to be in the office every day for 10-12 hours and yes if I have a child I will scale that back big time, we both have to work not so we can keep living some fabulous life – but so we can pay bills and gasp! have some luxuries like cable tv and high speed DSL!

  • “most artists (99 percent of them) are obnoxious and annoying anyway. so maybe this is a blessing in diguise. let them live with the homeless and former crackheads. i hope all their expensive ipods and macs get stolen. yeah im cranky today, so what!”

    Disagree

  • more4less- this is one building trying to provide low income housing for people with special needs and those in the arts. It’s hardly a huge endeavor and its not like there aren’t many more housing opportunities for homeless or disabled people than for low income workers in the arts.

  • Heather – THANK YOU!
    I just wanted to know my options.

    11217 – all I am saying to you is most of us working scrubs have to work – I wish I could stay home and raise my little baby – but alas someone’s gotta put food on the table and unfortunately it relies on both my husband and I. We are choosing to remain in PS for obvious reasons as you know – but to suggest I will treat my kid like a purse surely you haven’t seen my fancy purse?!?

  • This nanny thing is cracking me up. I always thought a nanny was like Mary Poppins, someone who lives in your house. A person that doesn’t live with the family would be a baby sitter. Someone who nurses other’s children, a wet nurse.

    I think there’s a ever stronger tendency for people to feel the need to one up each other and the use of the free wheeling use of “nanny” to cover any kind of child care makes it sound like the family has a servant.

  • ringo- yes. But there are a lot of people working off and off off b’way who aren’t And even with being in the union, if the work isn’t there, then you aren’t making money. Many of the workers in theater do the feast to famine cycle. You can work for a year or so, then not for 2. And don’t forget, the “arts” is a huge nebulous term and covers a really wide range of people.

  • > “i hope all their expensive ipods and macs get stolen.”

    Finally another glimmer at the crux of rob’s “argument.”

    Envy. Nothing but envy.

  • heather was inching upon the issue in a previous post… seriously tho, i think the adding “artists” to it is to make the building appear that it’s not projects and / or a gigantic luxury halfway house. it’s just barf worthy and i will stand by my opinion.

    *rob*

  • snark- so true! when you have nothing else going for you, you envy.

  • I wasn’t accusing you of that Gemini. I didn’t even think you had a kid yet. I was just commenting on what I see from some of these PS parent types. I just think that if someone wants to have a child, they should rearrange their life to make as much time as humanly possible for it. Not hire some chick to do it for you. I guess I’m old fashioned like that.

    I find it funny that I get ripped to shreds for loving and living Park Slope, and then get equally ripped to shreds for saying that I support affordable housing developments (yup, even if it were on my block) and think the whole notion of nannies is bunk.

    Go figure.

  • more4less

    when something is exclusive (in this case, ARTISTS0, it’s just open for debate / criticism. When public $$$ is involved, that just escalates the debate why others are excluded. There’s no right or wrong to it – just a matter of where one stands.

  • daveinbedstuy

    I think this whole thread was one of the more inane, useless discussions I’ve ever seen here and boy, have I seen some useless ones.

  • Have to agree with you on that one Dave.

    Perhaps I should move over the OT for some really great useful conversation…??

  • 11217- I am old fashioned too and would love to raise a child until their ready for school – but living in NYC and PS is expensive!!-haha plus,I don’t have grandma around the corner like the good old days so I have to look at options. Also if you are living in PS and are at home with your child, chances are you have money or your partner makes quite a lot of it to support all of you without issue.

    (and I actually don’t have a kid – but we want to and are trying to rearrange our life now so we have more to give it without the current struggle we are living now)

  • dave just go back to the OT and continue to discuss philipino houseboys or something equally as insignificant if you have nothing intellgient to add. (kidding kidding ;)

    *rob*

  • daveinbedstuy

    It’s spelled “Filipino.”

  • kids over the age of like 8 dont need nannies or babysitters anyway. i had a baby sitter til i was about 8 and then i was like um i think i can watch myself after school. never had a problem for the most part! how old are kids with babysitters (nannies) today? sometimes i feel like they are like 17 lol

    *rob*

  • I hear ya Gemini,

    I sometimes think I’d like to have one too, but I’m not sure that I’ll ever be in a position to afford one here…

    Sorry….didn’t mean to attack you personally AT ALL. The whole conversation got thrown a little out of whack with the whole Nanny thing. It wasn’t really relevant to the topic at hand, but it took on a life of its own.

    Our office is about 95 degrees today. It’s making me crazy.

  • i meant philipino from the phillipines dave.

    *rob*

  • daveinbedstuy

    rob…parents will get locked up and hace Children’s Services take away their kids here in NYC if they are found to be leaving their children (over 8) alone.

    That wasn’t true years ago, even in NYC.

    Ever see the look a parent gets if he spanks his /her kid in public?? Ridiculous.

  • lol 11217 our office’s ac is broken too. and i dont know why im shocked to find out that you work! in an office no less! for some reason i always pictured you sitting in park slope cafe’s all day making macaroni necklackes. (in a long blonde wig)

    *rob*

  • daveinbedstuy

    i meant philipino from the phillipines dave.

    Yes, and they are referred to as Filipinos, not philipinos.

    And the country is called “The Philippines”, not “Phillipines”

  • East New York

    “i had a baby sitter til i was about 8 and then i was like um i think i can watch myself after school.”

    That worked out well. You got a TERRIFIC start on bean-bagging, whining about what you don’t have, and drinking 40s!

    “i meant philipino from the phillipines dave.”

    It’s STILL spelled “Filipino” genius. It’s clear you required additional after-school supervision at a crucial period. Too late now.

  • daveinbedstuy

    Even you have to laugh at that charicature, 11217 :)

  • I work from home a day or so a week, Rob. Never hang out in any cafe’s though. I get my coffee and GO.

    The rest of the time, I’m hard at work. Literally and figuratively.

  • ok – great!
    we are all friends again? where did Bxgrl go?
    I came home from school on my own from about 10 years onward – however my mom always got a babysitter for nighttime! -hah

    yeah this thread got off topic – sorry!

  • Rob – if NYC changes its approach to artists – it would be like the city you moved out from (name any American city or town). It would be void and boring.

    If not for artist, Chelsea, Williamsburgh, Soho, East Village, etc would not matter.

    NYC, because of artist of immigrants is the most important US city because of it. Deal with it. If you don’t like it, 99% of America is calling you to live with them and have a coffee at their excellent cafes, where a local artist is being supported with free coffee and a mic. No free housing for you!

  • How about subsidized housing for NYC cops. Pretty sure they don’t make a lot and wouldn’t it be great (for all) to have cops live in the communities that they patrol? Seems to me that would have a greater impact on the standard of living of most people.

  • Dave:

    Of COURSE I find it amusing. The funny thing to me about all of this is that some of you have such funny impressions of me. I think I’m the complete opposite. I’ve told you before…this is just my brownstoner posting persona.

    If you knew me in real life, I’d much less offensive. ;-)

    Do you REALLY think I love Park Slope *that* much?? It’s just fun to play the character of the ultimate PS lover cause it seems to get on some people’s nerves so much. Ha.

  • gemini- I was trying to do sme actual work but the thread was way too much fun. Hope you do have kids though- I think you’d be a great mom.

  • daveinbedstuy

    And some artists, as pathetic as they may have seemed, and unable to support themselves in their earlier years, turn out to produce incredible works. Most recently, Warhol.

  • daveinbedstuy

    If you knew me in real life, I’d much less offensive. ;-)

    Posted by: 11217 at April 27, 2009 2:09 PM

    OK, show of hands who believes this.
    :) Just kidding.

  • 11217- we’ll have to take your word for that. I, however, found you particularly soothing and calming today :-)

  • bxgrl – awww – thanks – I hope so ;/

    am sure to treat my kid as well as I do my $10 purse special from H&M!!! – hahahaha

  • if you’re not working for 2 years at a time, I think you need to get thee to trader joe’s and get your application in. health insurance if you were 21 hours a week or more!

  • > “i meant philipino from the phillipines dave.”

    That. Was. Awesome.

    I’d say you’ve hoisted yourself by your own retard.

    Whoops, sorry, I meant “petard.”

  • i think 11217′s last post was quite a piece of work myself. you cannot with a straight face now say youre some kind of made up character nic. you are definitely exactly as you come across here hahahah to claim otherwise is pure hogwash. (i just said hogwash)

    *rob*

  • Bx:

    You don’t need to take my word for it. I don’t mind people taking offense to me…it’s just the internet. This is just fun entertainment for a few hours around working.

    I feel like we connected today. ;-))

  • “How about subsidized housing for NYC cops. Pretty sure they don’t make a lot and wouldn’t it be great (for all) to have cops live in the communities that they patrol? Seems to me that would have a greater impact on the standard of living of most people.”

    I think thats a great idea. People constantly say that cops are detached from the communities they patrol – this would allow them to get to know the community they patrol – and allow rookies to move out of mom and dad’s basement in long island.

  • daveinbedstuy

    11217, that’s why you should come to the get-together in June. No one is like their brownstoner personna and everyone is fun.

  • I am sooooooo not 11217.

  • 11217 = The What?

  • The new improved Snark of the Day Award goes to…..Snarkslope. Give that man a tiara and a scepter.

  • daveinbedstuy

    DH…I bet most cops DON’T want to live in the communities they patrol.

  • that’s not true dave

    *rob*

  • DH – I think in theory that’s great, but do you really think those dudes from LI really want to live in some subsidized housing in downtown BK or worse…Bushwick?
    They think people like us are “weird,freaks or…artistes”!

  • uh no he does not get a tiara. when i said i meant philipino as in the phillipines i meant that as a joke. duh!

    *rob*
    (im so going with that)

  • I’m definitely not jessibaby.

    What the hell kind of name is that anyway?

    And why the shout out to say you’re not me?

    Missed something apparently.

  • DH- rookies start at around 26,000. Average is, last I knew around 50-60,000. Like firefighters, many of them moonlight to make ends meet. Interestingly there were projects put up specifically for teachers, firefighters,cops and civil servants because it was desirable to keep them in the city. Amalgamated in the Bronx is one, and which still does focus on them. Others sort of fell by the wayside because the real estate was so valuable so they were priced out.

  • “DH – I think in theory that’s great, but do you really think those dudes from LI really want to live in some subsidized housing in downtown BK or worse…Bushwick?
    They think people like us are “weird,freaks or…artistes”!”

    Probably not – but make it a requirement. Then you’ll actually have new cops who want to make a difference.

  • daveinbedstuy

    11217…leave her alone. She’s having a difficult time with dates recently :)

  • do most cops really live in nice houses on long island? i find that hard to believe. based on appearance and how cops talk it seems like most new cops live in the ghetto areas of the city themselves.

    *rob*

  • Some folks thought that I was you, but in a blond wig. Check out the OT from last thursday…you’d probably find it amusing….

  • that last post of mine came out sounding totally NOT what i think i intended to say. what i mean is that it seems like most new york city cops DO live already in the city.

    *rob*

  • daveinbedstuy

    “do most cops really live in nice houses on long island? i find that hard to believe. based on appearance and how cops talk it seems like most new cops live in the ghetto areas of the city themselves.”

    rewrite>>>>

    do most hedge fund managers really live in nice houses on long island? i find that hard to believe. based on appearance and how hedge fund managers talk it seems like most live in the ghetto areas of the city themselves.

  • DH- I think it is a requirement- or was until very recently. But they couldn’t afford it, and when the rule was made, many of them already lived outside NYC. Still- you’ll find many cops and firefighters living in Queens and Staten Island as well as Brooklyn.

  • daveinbedstuy

    Not to get rob into any more trouble with 11217, but it was he who threw out the caricature of 11217 in a blonde wig posting as jessibaby

    LOL

  • BXGRL –

    So if rookies start out at 26K it would be very hard for them to live in many places in the five boros comfortably.

    I think what this whole thread boils down to is that there are many more lines of work that are very important to this city that deserve subsidized housing before people in the arts do. Can anyone really stand up and say that artists deserve subsidized housing before poilce officers, firefighters, nurses, teachers who are an integral part of our societies, but their importance is not reflected in their salaries?

  • I agree DH – I would love to see more cops who actually have a vested interest in our city communities b/c they work,live and send their kids to the schools here.

  • “Check out the OT from last thursday…you’d probably find it amusing….”

    I’d rather scratch my eyes out with a walnut.

  • “”do most cops really live in nice houses on long island? i find that hard to believe. based on appearance and how cops talk it seems like most new cops live in the ghetto areas of the city themselves.”

    I find there are alot of cops who commute on the LIRR everyday from areas like Ronkonkoma, Babylon, Deer Park, etc. Decent working class neighborhoods with decent schools for their children. I know this seems crazy to some of you, as these places don’t have brownstones or fifi wine bars, but it is what it is.

  • “Check out the OT from last thursday…you’d probably find it amusing….”

    “I’d rather scratch my eyes out with a walnut.”

    I’ll sum it up then: people found me so cocky and annoying that they thought I was you :)

    P.S. Are you single? Wanna go out?

  • no no no!!! i did not. i wasnt the person who accussed jessica of being 11217, it was bayridgegirl or bxgirl.. i just added the long blonde wig part.

    *rob*

  • daveinbedstuy

    I think he’d rather go out with rob, JB.

  • “P.S. Are you single? Wanna go out?”

    11217 plays for the other team – hence why he thinks nanny’s are stupid.

  • OK, I’ll happily give up my tiara this time.

    It’s not as if I’ll have to wait very long – I’m starting the egg timer now – before he says something else of staggering stupidity that wasn’t meant as a joke.

  • DH- you can check- a couple of years ago the City negotiated the starting salary for rookies at 26,000.

    I am not trying to prioritize people in terms of importance but one thing to remember. Cops, firefighters, and teachers do belong to unions. They have benefits and base salaries and pensions that most freelancers can only dream of. And not that I think they shouldn’t be treated better or paid better, because they certainly deserve it.

    But subsidizing those with the lowest salaries and without benefits is a stopgap and a safety net. If they wind up on the street, we’ll still be paying for them one way or another, but it will be for less positive or productive reasons. I think we talking about who deserves it more as opposed to who needs it more.

  • Love that for us, Jessi!

    I’m gay and not single at the moment, babe.

    Are you a hetero woman? I’ve always thought that dirty hipster sounded pretty sexy. Maybe give him a try…!

    Snark is more my type. ;-)

  • nanny’s = nannies

  • LOL jessi. oh yeah 11217 is single. ugh remember when you people tried to set me up on a date with him!?! you people need to stop the match making stuff. i think you all do it to be mean!

    *rob*

  • daveinbedstuy

    I think 11217 has some valid reasons for thinking nannies are stupid and I don’t think that his lack of children is one of them.

  • And here I was giving you a compliment, dh!

  • For the record, I don’t think nannies are stupid (they are SUPER fun to party with, #1) but I just find it odd that some people seem to have children to then hire someone else to basically raise them and be with them for the bulk of their awake hours. That’s all. If I have a kid, I want to do the raising myself.

    I’m sorry that that’s so offensive to so many here.

  • I def think Jessibabeeee is an alter-ego of one of you guys

  • Snark- I’ll throw in a velvet cape with ermine collar.

    No- not me, rob. You said it. I remember it very well. Don’t add “liar” to your long list of questionable personal attributes.

  • gross. if i had a kid that last thing id want to do is take care of it myself. so yeah if i was stuck in that unfortunate situation and could afford it i’d hire a “nanny” stat to tend to my little crotch fruit so i can actually have a life.

    *rob*

  • daveinbedstuy

    And that, rob, is why most parents shouldn’t be parents.

  • YES bxgirl i was the one who said the long blonde wig but not the original accuser, i dont do that! and like i said it was either you or bayridgegirl, so i guess it was her.
    youre so paranoid sometimes!
    *rob*

  • haha sorry 11217! just bustin your chops – you know how we do.

  • daveinbedstuy

    OK…lets regroup and try to remember the original title to this thread:

    “Lots of Love for The Schermerhorn House”

  • This has to rank up there as one of the most ridiculous threads that doesn’t include the What ever to appear on Brownstoner.

    It seems that several of the angry posters didn’t bother to read the article. To *rob*, benson, etson, etc: try doing a little bit of research before deciding that your tax dollars got abused, or that “they
    ” should have given the housing to someone more deserving. May I suggest going to commonground.org, and actorsfund.org to learn a bit about what the philosophies of these two groups are, how they get their money, and how they spend it. A particularly enlightening bit is the part where the maximum incomes of people applying for apartments is listed (this was also in the Times) and how rents are tied to that income. Also check the part that lists what state subsidized housing costs per bed per year, vs. what housing provided by tghe Actors Fund costs. After seeing these numbers and reading about the “artists” this project is meant to include, the snarky comments about hipters with iPods and Macs will seem a bit ebarrassing.

  • Biff Champion

    I would strongly suggest for anyone who does not have the time to read this entire thread to do a keyword search on “SnarkSlope” and enjoy the bon mots. There were some real gems today. Snark, I tip my asshat to you.

  • “Are you a hetero woman? I’ve always thought that dirty hipster sounded pretty sexy. Maybe give him a try…!”

    And thus proves my hypothesis that, for me, gay guys make incredible wingmen

    thanks 11217 ;)

  • > “Snark- I’ll throw in a velvet cape with ermine collar.”

    That’s very generous bxgrl, but I’m short on closet space as it is.

    (C’mon kids, I’ve set it up for you, now go to town!)

  • daveinbedstuy

    Gay guys make incredible wing men for straight guys but, for the same reason that women can’t be wingwomen for other women, gay guys can’t be wingmen for other gay guys.

    With gay men as wingmen for hetero guys, there’s absolutely no conflict of interest.

  • rob- you don’t even know what paranoia is. Hint: It’s not correcting someone for posting wrong information.

  • Biff Champion

    “This has to rank up there as one of the most ridiculous threads that doesn’t include the What ever to appear on Brownstoner.”

    And how ironic that this might be the first time in Brownstoner history that the Open Thread did not have the most posts on a given day.

  • Havemeyer

    I think I really should have said “bartender.” We could have had a whole different conversation. Who doesn’t want their local bartender to have a quick commute to work?

    Also, all cops live on Staten Island.

    And I did not know 11217′s gender or status before.

    Nannies are people. It’s not the most flattering or respected job title ever, but it is what it is, and most people hire nannies because that’s their best option, the others being a family member, daycare or that old recession favorite, the nanny share. In today’s hyper-parenting circles, no one would ever admit to not enjoying every precious second with their precious snowflake… but most people do have to work, except for those of us whose net salaries would be less than the cost of any of the other options. And actually, a lot of those people work too, although I have no idea why.

  • “I think we talking about who deserves it more as opposed to who needs it more.”

    Bxgrl – Very true. Is there not a freelancers union of some sort that people in the arts could join in order to obtain benefits?

    Not sure if this is true, or even economically feasible.

  • Oh dh, given that 80% of my friends are single, hot straight females, I’m sure I could hook ya up. The value of the gay wingman for straight guys is so vastly underrated and takes a back seat (shut it Dave) to the typical “fag hag” type arrangement.

    Fag hags are useless. I want the straight guys so I can meet the bi-curious hot jock-type guys. ;-)

  • Well, biff- you have to admit, it was a little more interesting than talking about how to hoist your refrigerator out the kitchen window :-)

  • Havemeyer

    Dirty Hipster, it’s called the “Freelancers Union,” oddly enough.

  • dh- there is a freelancers union and it is a help but as a freelancer it all comes out of your pocket (normally less than civil servant jobs), so a lot of what they offer is still not really affordable for many of us. It’s a great organization and will get better as it grows.

  • daveinbedstuy

    I met a bi-curious latin guy at the Floyd’s the night of the FOB (Friends of brownstoner)party.

  • (sidenote: keep in mind that for me, a “hot jock” is any guy who doesn’t know what hello kitty is. i like ‘em masculine).

    hairy and skinny is fine too…

  • Biff Champion

    “Well, biff- you have to admit, it was a little more interesting than talking about how to hoist your refrigerator out the kitchen window :-)”

    Um…not really… :-)

  • okay what the hell is a wingman?

    *rob*

  • Heather- and they are Brooklyn based.

  • ” I’m short on closet space as it is”

    [must you tempt me so, snark...]

    I thought you’d already moved out of the closet?! : )

  • “I met a bi-curious latin guy at the Floyd’s the night of the FOB (Friends of brownstoner)party.”

    Jealous. But I seem to gots me a bf now. This weekend was date numero 10!

  • Oh ok! At least it was less depressing than swine flu?

  • whatever 11217 , youd be shocked just how many masculine guys there are at the Kitty Realm (a hello kitty fan club).

    *rob*

  • Roberto,
    Both Benson and I clearly said that if this was 100% privately funded then it is none of our concern. If taxpayer dollars are used, then it is. The article does not give the breakdown of funding for the non-profits involved.
    The debate moved on into one about subsidies for the arts in general, which do come from taxpayer dollars and which I oppose, because the government should not have a role in determining what is ‘good’ art. I am not ‘angry’, just stating my opinion. I did see the part about income levels and don’t see why that is relevant to whether one group should get a special subsidy.

  • Uh oh, my Paul Frank “Julius” shower curtain might still your ardor, 11217, heh heh!

    Though I think my “A-Team” pillow cases are pretty butch.

  • omg who counts dates. what are you 13?

    *rob*

  • OK you guys!!!
    this has now become the OT – back to OT you usual suspects!!!!

  • I’d kill for some A-Team pillow cases.

    No lie.

  • daveinbedstuy

    I had a bf about 10 years ago who one night counted the number of beers I drank. It ended shortly thereafter.

  • 1. “whatever 11217 , youd be shocked just how many masculine guys there are at the Kitty Realm (a hello kitty fan club).”

    2. “what are you 13?”

  • The bf or the beer drinking?

  • Never Dave!! I’m the opposite…get ‘em good and liquored up.

    I was more proud of the fact that I can even remember that we’ve been on 10 dates given that I spent the larger portion of the weekend in the park high as a kite.

  • daveinbedstuy

    Stupid question, Snark. We should all get together for a few beers at Excelsior. :)

  • daveinbedstuy

    11217…his problem was that he didn’t drink. Otherwise getting them all liquored up is great fun. But I like the ones that can keep up even more.

  • I can’t date people who don’t drink. I appreciate it, and many times there’s a good reason why they don’t anymore, but in terms of a relationship for me, that would be really difficult. I don’t drink a ton, but they’d have to be beyond great in the sack to make that worth it.

  • Am I invited to the Excelsior gathering? Every group of gay boys needs one token lesbian. **waiting for my invitation**

    Sorry to take this off topic. Resume.

  • I say we go now, Snappy. Carpe drinkum.

  • I bet the back deck and garden are loverly right about now…

  • yes snappy you should definitely come. i will have to think about going to the excelsior meet up tho. i dont feel comfortable in that bar.

    *rob*

  • Last one there is a rotten egg!

  • daveinbedstuy

    Can we make it Thursday instead??????

  • “Oh dh, given that 80% of my friends are single, hot straight females, I’m sure I could hook ya up. The value of the gay wingman for straight guys is so vastly underrated and takes a back seat (shut it Dave) to the typical “fag hag” type arrangement.

    Fag hags are useless. I want the straight guys so I can meet the bi-curious hot jock-type guys. ;-)”

    11217 and I work in fashion with alot of pretty gay men so I think we could scratch each other’s backs hahah.

  • You had me at fashion.

    And back.

  • denton

    I’m surprised no one mentioned Manhattan Plaza.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Plaza

  • gah, it’s like the 1950′s up in here. i’m chiming in way late but i have to put my useless 2 cents in on the nanny issue. of course most parents would be with their kids all the time and not work if they didn’t have to. but, and i say this respectfully, some of you sound like you have not spent much longer than an idle hour or two thinking about what “have to” really means before judging other people whose positions you’re not in, and never will be in.

    so “have to”: studies have shown that women who leave the work force for any extended period of time have an incredibly difficult time re-entering. most can’t, not at their former salaries or positions, even taking into account the gap, and most can’t return to their line of business at all. over half of marriages end in divorce, and divorced women with children trying to re-enter the work force are faced with some of the worst economic situations of anyone, particularly later in life. health insurance? 401Ks? flexible schedules? only if you’re lucky.

    kids don’t need you 24-hours a day once they enter kindergarten, and when they’re teenagers…certainly don’t want you around that much. grandparents are working later and later into life, and many simply aren’t young enough to be appropriate caregivers now that people are having kids later in life.

    my point is that with these economic realities, most women who drop out of the work force for any meaningful period of time to take care of their kids are taking a HUGE risk. they might still be doing it, but you need a spouse with a great job who will never leave you, and a whole lot of luck to have it work out. it just doesn’t make sense to give up all of the benefits for a few years, as precious as those few years might be. and that’s the reality. not only can a lot of these women/families simply not provide a lot of things to their children that working parents might be able to provide (not just help with college, but, yes, good health insurance, etc.), they probably are setting themselves up for a pretty uncomfortable life in the long run.

    this has nothing to do with selfishness (or purses, good grief) – yeah, i’d love to stay home with my baby all day long, but even more than that i want her to be able to stay healthy, have some stability, and even, maybe, choose the job SHE wants when she grows up without worrying about providing for me in my old age.

    this doesn’t even get to the subject of women who work because they truly love the jobs they have, who feel like being a good example to their kids might involve having other interests and occupations than just their kids, and those who have unique skills that want to give back to the community in general (and not just their own families).

    rant over.

  • I appreciate all of that, i diagree…and I see your points fully.

    I probably ended up taking much more of an opposite reaction to the whole nanny issue more to make a point, but your argument is a good one, and you brought up many valid concerns. I concede that what might be good for me might not be good for you.

    Thanks for such a rational and well thought out response to a very heated “debate.”

    Sorry if I offended you…I didn’t mean any disrespect to you (or anyone else) for your decisions to lead the life that’s best for you.

  • That thing looks like the Brooklyn House of Detention, a block away.

    http://www.forgotten-ny.com