Beating a Busted Bugaboo?

slope-strollers-05-2008.jpgMaybe there’s more to the Park Slope stroller mafia debate than points about how it shows how white people are jealous of other white people or assertions that negative stereotypes come from I-don’t-wanna-grow-up hipsters. Maybe, as Lynn Harris posits in yesterday’s Style section, Slope bashing is an elegy for a former New York:

Brooklyn was supposed to be Manhattan’s little burnout brother. When I arrived in New York, Brooklyn was the place you could reliably feel superior to, if you thought about it at all. New Yorkers don’t hate the Upper East Side in the same way because that’s old money, old news. But Brooklyn? There’s the feeling that yuppies in Park Slope are washing away Brooklyn’s grittiness and making it more like Manhattan, said Jose Sanchez, chairman of urban studies at Long Island University, Brooklyn. Brooklyn was supposed to be different. Park Slope, to some, now represents everything that Brooklyn was not supposed to be. That’s why our feelings about Park Slope are linked to our feelings about our entire city: our overpriced, chain-store city run by bankers, socialites and, it seems, mommies. The artists are fleeing and your friends, it seems, have become Park Slope pod people. (And they’re coming for you, too.) It’s starting to feel as if there’s nowhere left to hide. And that if we lose Brooklyn, we lose everything. Though actually, if you could keep hating Park Slope, that would be great. Maybe if it really falls out of favor, I’ll be able to afford to stay.

But maybe all press is good press.
Park Slope: Where Is the Love? [NY Times]
Photo by redxdress.

0 Comment

  • simple jealousy. park slope became so successful in creating a family friendly environment – park, schools, space, etc. – that all those not interested in this find it difficult to find their place in the neighborhood. the secret is out and people are naturally upset. quite frankly, given the throngs of people filling 5th ave. on the weekends, it doesn’t seem like the stroller moms are much of a deterrent.

  • The ‘hating park slope’ story is SO played out. It’s just further proof that the NY Times is out of touch.

  • i’ve got a crisp $5 bill waiting for the first person who has anything interesting or original to say on this subject…

  • Yawn. What’s next, reposting the entire contents of the Park slope Yellow Pages?

  • I’m callin’ it right now.

    This post is going to be the super duper gold medal winner, mama doozey of all posts…

    (I’m thinkin’ somewhere in the vicinity of 280+)

  • park slope isnt filled with chain stores….yet.

  • This past Saturday, I’ve never EVER seen so many people on 7th Avenue. One out of every 10 people were seemingly on vacation from Germany or the U.K.

    Seems the neighborhood has been invaded with European tourists this year.

    But I did see a VERY cute Maggie Gyllenhall, husband Peter Sarsgaard and baby at the Greenmarket on Sat.

  • Yeah this story is completely played out. There’s even a Park Slope hate backlash. Next up: Cobble Hill…..They thnk they have the best pizza, who do they think they are?

  • I don’t live in Park Slope, but I do live in Carroll Gardens for nearly 20 years. If the PS story is anything like the CG story here’s how it goes: When I moved here back in the day, in addition to the long-term residents, the “new” people were of a pioneering, creative spirit. They were not rich, they had a heightened sense of community, as well as a sense of local activism. We MADE this community. We organized children’s events in the park, like the Halloween haunted house, flea markets and weeded and planted. This is no longer the case. This neighborhood has now been mainstreamed. There are nannies in the park with the kids rather than parents, families leave town for weekends in the summer. It’s difficult to find volunteers to continue the traditions that attracted the wealthier set to the area. There are still some of the same great things, but it’s losing the small-town, creative feeling that attracted us years ago. I live here, so it’s not jealousy talking.

  • “The artists are fleeing”

    I have many artist friends living in Park Slope–all are working and making a good living from their art, and some even have children (gasp!!!) Just another example of how inaccurate many of these generalizations are.

  • Biff Champion

    Hi Nokilissa. I’ve got a bit of work to do (just a bit) and I haven’t seen Dave around yet, so your estimate might be a tad high. By the way, I think our party is looking better and better now that we have the added excitement of watching Big Brown go for the triple crown at the Preakness. Mint juleps, beads, ice skates and crawfish all around!

  • The only artists I know who live in Park Slope are the successful ones.

    Is that now all of the sudden considered a bad thing?

  • “I don’t live in Park Slope, but I do live in Carroll Gardens for nearly 20 years. If the PS story is anything like the CG story here’s how it goes: When I moved here back in the day, in addition to the long-term residents, the “new” people were of a pioneering, creative spirit. They were not rich, they had a heightened sense of community, as well as a sense of local activism. We MADE this community…”

    Here’s the thing–you can say that about many neighborhoods across NYC. It’s not unique to Brooklyn. I feel that way about the UWS, but I realize it’s just change, and life changes, neighborhoods change, and you can either embrace it or move. When I moved to the UWS in 1979, no one wanted to live here. There were prostitutes, drug dealers, and gangs, etc., etc. And I’m talking 79th & Broadway. Such is life. Deal with it and stop complaining.

  • I moved to Park Slope in the last two years, I’m young, I’m single, I don’t intend to have kids soon, I garden, I go to Community Board meetings, I’m actively involved with my co-op and sometimes I even sweep the sidewalk.

    This reporter simply didn’t find those out there who do still care about neighborhood and who are involved with trying to make it a better place.

    She found people who wanted to be quoted in the NYTimes.

    ZZZZZZZZZZ

  • I don’t get this article and it’s commentary on condos in Park Slope. You could say the same thing about Williamsburg, Fort Greene, even Crown Heights. Ridiculous condos are everywhere….it’s a citywide phenomenon, not just on 4th Avenue.

  • When was the last time anyone cared about what the New York Times had to say?

  • “They were not rich, they had a heightened sense of community, as well as a sense of local activism. We MADE this community…It’s difficult to find volunteers to continue the traditions that attracted the wealthier set to the area.”

    The arrogance of you “I moved here when it was crap and made it good” people is unbelievable. Your ‘community’ is not what attracted the wealthier set. If it was, they’d join in, but they don’t because they don’t care about it. They came for their own reasons. Besides, if your community was so great, your neighbors wouldn’t sell their houses to new people and leave.

  • Yeah but see, young single people who attend Community Board meetings and garden are JUST what Brooklyn wasn’t! It wasn’t Amherst, MA where we were all open-minded and forward-thinking (and 100% white, liberal and upper middle class and don’t you dare be something else). It was DA BOMB BABY! The guy down the street from me near 4th Ave used to go out everynight in a top hat and a cape! A CAPE! He was going to some club in Manhattan somewhere .. down some steps in Chinatown probably. But he came home to us.

    And now we have young people who sweep their sidewalks? WTF? It makes me want to cry!

  • i hope this is the end of this crap.

    union hall won out last week over the crazy neighbors, then there was the park slope parking thing, now this article. it’s been all over the news lately. last week every entry on curbed.com was about park slope, it seemed.

    i think park slope is on the up and up.

  • 10:47:

    Not sure what part of Brooklyn you live in, but in Park Slope there has been a hippie set cleaning the sidewalks and getting involved in the neighborhood since the 1960′s.

    How do you think the Food Co-op came into being?

  • Biff Champion

    Steven Johnson, “I imagine there’s some horror fantasy fusion: the well-off Park Sloper and co-op member who is obsessed with his kids. Oh, wait, I just described myself.”

    Mamma mia…

  • Thank you 10:34. I’m another person who was pushed out of what used to be the middle-class, rent control and sketchy era of the UWS. No one remembers what it used to be like. I was born in 1972 and grew up in the West 80/90s. In case you weren’t there, Bed-Stuy 2008 is cleaner and safer than Columbus Ave 1976.

    No one “owns” their neighborhood. We are all renters in some manner. Eventually, in time every area either gets better or worse, and then the old folks from the hood either sell out to make quick cash, or sell quick to save their butt from crime.

    But, now I own in Ft. Greene. I saw the writing on the wall (and a familiar vision of gentrification – restaurants and cleaner streets) and so I put my money down before it was too late. I’m here to stay.

    There was some rally outside Albee Sq. mall this Saturday and some angry member of the ‘community’ was screaming about saving what they had created in Ft. Greene. I guess drugs, crime and the nick-name ‘murder ave’ are worth saving for some. I moved to that area in 1994 and can tell you that he ‘improvements’ to downtown Brooklyn were made by the new residents, not the last generation.

    Remember, Ft. Greene (and all neighborhoods) used to belong to some other another ethnic group (unless you belong to the Wappinger Indian tribe). Someday, you too will move.

    Why didn’t the ‘community’ buy the Ft Greene houses when they were $75,000? Why are the ones who did buy sell out so quickly if the ‘community’ is so great? That’s because this is New York. Get ready to move.

  • 10.47 – many first generation immigrants from the 30s through the 60s swept the sidewalks in front of their houses in brooklyn. I still see old italian ladies doing it today in East Williamsburg and a polish gent who does the same in Greenpoint. I’ve seen them scrub the sidealk with a broom and bleachy water too. Its not a new phenomenon, it just died out with the careless and irresponsible.

  • 10:51 — well, not sure where you are looking, but Park Slope has been taking over the frickin world. The hippies were NOT living btw 4th and 5th Avenue since the 1960s (or 1990s). I have no problem with the co-op. I like my enemies all in one location (preferably making each other labor).

  • “This past Saturday, I’ve never EVER seen so many people on 7th Avenue. One out of every 10 people were seemingly on vacation from Germany or the U.K.

    Seems the neighborhood has been invaded with European tourists this year. ”

    Those aren’t tourists, they live there. Go to the playground any given day and easily half the people are speaking french or german. I’m surprised I haven’t seen an article about it, but it’s pretty clear a lot of young european families are taking advantage of the weak dollar and buying places in the slope.

  • 10:46 They certainly didn’t come here when it was drug infested and crime ridden, so don’t make it out like they don’t care. They are paying a premium for it, but of course they can afford it.

  • We don’t live in Park Slope, but were over there on Saturday visiting some friends of ours, and we ended up going out a few hours early to enjoy the beautiful day.

    I just want to say, that no matter how you feel about Park Slope, it never ceases to amaze me how GORGEOUS the neighborhood is.

    Each street teaming with flowers, trees, cute shops and simply stunning architecture.

    The Park was lush, people were out playing frisbee, having picnics, laying around with friends…all the restaurants on 7th and 5th seemed pretty bustling and we even happened to notice a bunch of people taking pictures and gasping at the beauty….and this was on 7th avenue…probably one of the least beautiful streets we saw…

    We had an amazing day in Park Slope.

  • 10:25 – carroll gardens inhabitant, I think you are out of touch because you no longer have small children. I am one of the new wave of CG residents (have lived there since 2000) and do have small children and people I know are VERY involved in the community and PS 58 in particular. Most people I know are either stay at home mothers or work part time (myself) and there is a great sense of community in terms of helping each other out, watching each other’s children in carroll park and volunteering for the schools – for example, it’s a group of parents who got the dual language program started at 58, they’ve raised more money than they ever have before, etc. So please, I think you should get to know the people in the community of the younger generation before you go about throwing accusations like that.

  • Brooklyn isn’t dead – It just smells funny.

  • 10:56….

    I live in the North Slope and in the last 2 years, three families (one from Berlin, one from London and one from Paris) have all moved onto our block.

    To see their delight at this neighborhood has reinvigorated my love for it.

    Truly. They are, for lack of a better word, smitten…

  • we can all afford it

  • It wasn’t hippies, it was mostly teachers.

  • i was travelling in europe last summer and you should have seen the eyes of some of people i talked to when i said i lived in park slope.

    i said..” you KNOW it???” i couldn’t understand.

    apparently, many of them read lonely planet which had brooklyn as a top destination last year and they know about park slope, believe it or not. they have an incredibly wonderful impression of it because of their high regard for urban, green, and architecturally significant neighborhoods.

    in many ways, park slope is the perfect model of a northern european village.

  • This is SO Park Slope: The Europeans are moving here.

    The Europeans are moving EVERYWHERE. Pick up a paper, Park Slope! Cobble Hill, Upper East Side, FiDi, EVERYWHERE. See, the dollar is low and the Euro is strong and… oh, forget it. You can only see the world through your keyhole!

  • I love living in Park Slope. Its safe, clean, fun, and has plenty of ammenities. I have lived here for 5 years after moving from queens. I find there is enough to do that many weekends I dont even bother going into Manhattan as I used to when I lived in Queens.

    Haters are either jealous, or prefer a gritty downtrodden neighborhood to perpetuate their edgy hip image.

    Either way, I dont care, I love it here and plan to stay.

  • eh, The Grimaldi’s line is full of Europeans and has been for years. And with the euro, we have more tourists than ever. Is this really a Park Slope exclusive issue?

  • 11:02am, I’m not 10:25am but I think you are being too hard on him/her. I agree that the newer residents who send their kids to PS 58 are very involved in the school (I’m one of them, too). But I think 10:25am was referring to other things in the community. I confess that I’ve seen postings asking people to volunteer in Carroll Park, and haven’t done so, and I know there hasn’t been a Halloween haunted house for a while because there’s no one to run it. I do think there is a little bit lost and it was some of the slightly older timers who organized alot of that, not the newer families with kids.

    Also, you’ve been here since 2000, so you aren’t really a newcomer anymore. It’s very difficult to find any family-sized apartment for less than $700,000 or $800,000 these days and the brownstones are selling for nearly $2 million. Many of those people simply don’t have the ability to donate hundreds of hours of time each year to the community. Even at PS 58, there’s a greater percentage of families in the lowest grades with more money than time to donate.

    I’m not complaining as that’s just what happens and I agree with you that there is still a great community of families here helping each other out. But I do think the high price of real estate is driving out the kinds of people who made this neighborhood so wonderful, and it’s certainly preventing any middle class families from moving in.

  • I guess the Park Slopers went to the GW Bush school of diplomacy
    “They hate us because they’re jealous”.

  • Why else would you bash someone elses neighborhood 11:39? If you dont live there, what possible motivation could you have to post negative vitrol about where someone else lives?

  • hello? we’ve been making fun of all of Queens for decades

  • it’s the intersection of class warfare and sexism. the middle class is shrinking, and, along with it, the availability to the urban middle class of their vision of urban utopia – a little house or brownstone apartment in a pretty neighborhood with some amenities and okay schools. people expected park slope would be there for them when they got around to saving up for a down payment and/or had some kids and were willing to put up with a little commute in exchange for all that. now, for some, it feels like that availability is shrinking – whether you live there, hoped to live there, or just liked the idea that you could if you wanted to – and that makes people sad, angry, disappointed. “stroller moms,” when intended to suggest that every woman with a kid in a stroller in ps is an upper-class, self-centered women who indulges her kids and herself, are the flash point because 1) they’re easily identified embodiments of the perceived new reality – that woman is taking up real estate that should belong to ME!; and 2) it always has been and still is acceptable to stereotype women based on a caricature of some distasteful element of them and to blame on them the downfall of whatever it is we’re complaining about. They’re devious yet clueless, defensive yet vulnerable – as easy to hate as they are to feel superior to.

  • This article is so so wrong – Park Slope actually has virtually no chain stores, tons of ‘artists’ (or at least people who do not seem to work a regular job- ‘freelance’) and plenty (majority) (NYC) middle-class.

    As for Suleiman Osman’s comments on ‘authenticity’ defined as – “postwar middle-class search for urban authenticity as a refuge from mass consumer culture,”
    Please STFU and get a real job – people just want a nice place to live and to raise their kids – 99.9% of everyone is just trying to survive – only the truly rich, very young, and college professors put so much thought into such nonsense.

  • 11:52 – but you conclusion is based on a false sense of reality – if anything – a safe attractiv urban neighborhood is more accessible in NYC then at any other time since the early 1960′s.

    Even the worst neighborhoods (crime wise) are far below Park Slope in the late 80′s. So if a ‘middle class’ person wants a nice Brownstone/apartment their are tons more neighborhoods that are safe, stable and available.

  • “Your ‘community’ is not what attracted the wealthier set. If it was, they’d join in, but they don’t because they don’t care about it. They came for their own reasons.”

    Do you like know, ANYTHING about real estate investing? It’s a known fact in the real estate business that the bohemian artists and gays are what “gentrify” and make a neighborhood hip, and then the wealthier set follow. It’s happened over and over and over and over again all across the city. And other cities. There’s even an official name for it, in business and real estate and sociology. The Gay Bohemian Index. Um, you can look it up if you actually want to know something about this subject. So you don’t have to fake it anymore.

    Slopers are so hell bent on pretending Park Slope was always always pure heaven with no crime. To the point they make up pure lies and fiction about it. WEIRD.

    You know Park Slope was known as a lesbian community, right? They and liberal academics and artists are the ones who made Park Slope a place you’d want to live in.

  • 11:46 Um, I make fun of the midwest christian right and honestly it’s not because I want to be one of them. The make fun of middle eastern muslims they join the military to murder and I’m pretty sure it’s not because they want to be them either. When your mother told you that they kids picking on you were just jealous, whe lied.

  • Well 11.46 for a number of reasons.
    How about a little self reflection. The whole idea of jealousy is very dumb witted- much like our president who first uttered those ridiculous words.

    I just move here a few months ago, and I can tell you that everyone I talked to told me not move to Park Slope. Can jealously really be the reason for all those people from Brooklyn & Manhattan?

    Park Slope has just hit a nerve for those that against the suburbanization of the city. It’s not just Park Slope but Park Slope is a very easy target. Park Slope is just New York’s version of Bethesda, MD or Bellevue, WA or Newton, MA etc etc.

  • Park Slope doesn’t have chain stores. Park Slope still has artists. And there aren’t as many strollers clogging the sidewalks as all that.

    But I agree about the “limousine liberal” community in Park Slope. Voting one way but with attitudes and lifestyle that’s very different from the way they vote. Nobody who cares about the poor buys a $1,0000 stroller, sorry. Nobody who is actively teaching true liberal progressive values to their children should be engaging their children in competition over material things. Or should be letting their children see them concerned with how superior they are to other people. The values are just all screwy.

    I know plenty people who grew up very wealthy who were still taught good values. I myself grew up wealthy and was taught not to be status obsessed – and that was with Republican parents. I feel like I see nobody caring about these lessons for the next generation. I go into my neighbor’s houses and the kids own every single toy ever manufactured. Why? Guilt? What is it?

  • All press is good press.

    Love,

    -Park Slope

  • Bethesda, Bellevue and Newton are all very nice places as well.

    Park Slope is a more urban version of all three of those places, however.

    And I don’t “make fun” of the Christian right or Muslim terrorists. I think you need a thesaurus. Making fun of and completely hating are two different things.

    If anyone here legitimately HATES Park Slope, then you are no worse than either group mentioned above. It means you lump people together, make stereotypes and hate groups of people instead of individuals.

    Park Slope is 70,000. If you hate each and every one of them, I’m scared to even know how much you must hate yourself.

  • I tell people not to move to PS all the time – but definitely not b/c of “suburbanization”

    -how can a neighborhood that is walkable, has virtually no chain stores and like 4 different train lines be considered suburban? – There are FAR FAR more suburban chain stores in almost every Manhattan neighborhood.

    I tell people not to move to PS b/c it HASN’T changed all that much – too many granola eating, COOP members, with annoying bumper stickers and political signs in their windows. Essentially too many people who have a High School mentality (like the author) that divides everyone into stupid categories like “hipster”, “frat boy”, “stroller mom” etc…..
    Park Slope has always (last 30 years) been this way and it still is and frankly it is annoying…..
    I only WISH PS had changed – I need a Duane Reade and a Pottery Barn very badly

  • think the picture of the dumpy broad pretty much sums up Park Slope. home of the uglies. if you moved to NYC to be fabulous, stay away from the frumpiest area ever.

  • duane reade corner of flatbush and 7th ave.

    also if park slope is suburban than the majority of manhattan is super suburbantastic

  • “granola eating, COOP members, with annoying bumper stickers and political signs in their windows”

    I LOVE all those things. You just sold me. Nothing wrong with being a little radical in these days when 99% of Americans are sitting in front of the tv rotting while watching American Idol.

    What exactly is wrong with wanting to be active , liberal and have some convictions???

    I’m appalled at so many of the typical suburban American mentalities on this thready. Some of you people literally have not at all been changed by this city. It’s as though you moved here, but retain all of the horrible qualities of closed-minded, conservative small town America.

  • Here’s a perspective from a Park Slope dad:

    This whole thing results from a collision of different people’s visions and choices. I for one moved to Park Slope specifically to breed: when the wife got pregnant, it was “Park Slope here we come.” It was, in essence, a consumer choice–lifestyle-niche self-selection. Many people find this attitude obnoxious, but let’s face it: as David Brooks and others have pointed out, that’s how class and consumer culture are shaping American society today. Park Slope is a brand that attracts a certain market segment. The basic problem, of course, is the misfit of consumer niche-thinking and actual brick-and-mortar communities: one can choose not to shop in a certain store, but it’s something else entirely when a neighborhood one lives in becomes populated by and identified with a market segment to which you do not belong.

  • park slope may have a few frumpy moms, but the dads and the gays are hotter than h*ll.

    the lezzies aren’t bad either.

  • moving to NYC to be “fabulous” is killing the city way more than some babys.

  • 11:59 – i never said it was a correct perception of reality, or that i shared it, or that the haters aren’t intellectually lazy and lacking in creativity. it isn’t, i don’t, and they are.

  • I’m a gay male and Park Slope is the best place in the world for me. And I’ve travelled quite extensively.

    I will never leave it, nor do I seem to fit into the niche market which you allude to, 12:26.

    You folks need to make your own niche markets and stop thinking you need to do what everyone else does.

    Judging from this post, you’d think most New Yorkers were followers, not leaders. I’m suprised, quite frankly.

  • 76% of people in Park Slope are not married and do not have children.

    Just a little fact for you.

  • Lesbians… built this city.

  • “What exactly is wrong with wanting to be active , liberal and have some convictions???”

    Nothing – but when you advertise it on the back of your Suburu or in the window of your Brownstone – it is annoying (b/c it seems to many of us that you are actually promoting your vision of yourself more than doing anything for your ’cause’)
    BTW – I think the same thing of ‘right wing’ bumper stickers like “you can have my gun when you pry it…”

    The same goes for ‘wearing’ your convictions – if you are liberal and have some convictions is it necessary to wear ugly glasses, heavy shoes and thick socks? etc….

    The point is – it all seems very HS – I am an adult now – can’t I be a ‘burnout’ without playing handball and wearing concert shirts?, Cant I be liberal and wear a suit?, Can’t I support the ASPCA without eating tofu at S’Nice?

  • Please…PS still has tons of Lesbians – and sorry but they are THAT BAD (looking)

  • “it is annoying (b/c it seems to many of us that you are actually promoting your vision of yourself more than doing anything for your ’cause’”

    know almost no one in new york anymore who seems to have any cause at all anymore. so while you might find it annoying, perhaps people in park slope are trying to advertise ANY CAUSE to get people to wake up….ABOUT SOMETHING.

    I know that’s why I post things and talk incessantly about certain things and sometimes advertise my “PARK SLOPENESS” It’s really because all my friends are living inside a bubble and I find it a deep seated passion in myself to try to get people interested in something…in what this country is doing to itself right now, with the war, with global warming, with the green revolution, with really anything.

    It would be nice if more people were interested in that than they are about Lindsay Lohan, American dildo, oh sorry, Idol, the LATEST episode of Who wants to be a millionaire or how to make 6 gagillion dollars working at a bank or flipping brownstones.

    For god’s sake…maybe you don’t like the poster in my brownstone, but maybe…just maybe it will make you wonder what it is you are excited in life about enough to want to announce it to the world and do something good for it every once in a while.

    I’m sorry if you think I’m “wearing my convictions on my sleeve” but I’d rather wear it there than on the sole of my feet.

    That’s just me.

    I think Park Slope is great.

  • and btw, ‘snice started in the west village.

    so you can still make your point, but it has absolutely no exclusive bearing on park slope.

  • I’m with you 12:42 but I feel for the first 12: 26.

  • hey 12.42 – NY latinas wear godawful horribly ugly D and G thick glasses without them being a political statement.

  • I am 12:54 and I will be honest that “deep seated, deep seeded” is one of those expressions I’ve never written and now that i see it I honestly don’t even know what the correct word is. Know what it means, but how nice it is to realize that I can have lived a good life, be educated, live in a nice place, get on my little soapbox for a moment and then realize that I have no effing clue what that saying is.

    Is it deep seated? deep seeded? none of the above?

    Where did it originate?

    Nice to know you can still learn something new every day.

  • There have always been places like berkeley, california, portland oregon, park slope, brooklyn (you can laugh, but it’s true), woodstock, brattleboro, vermont just to name a few of places that are hotbeds of liberal activism. It’s places like this that keep the country in check. If we did not have these places, the United States could falter back to a majority Christian Conservative country.
    Think about Obama for a second. He’s the king of the “limosine liberals” but most of us would probably say he’d be darn good for this country at the same time. So knock Park Slope all you want. Personally those signs and stickers I end up seeing are really things I care quite deeply about. Someone needs to stick up for them, if I’m not.

  • Biff Champion

    Deep-seated

  • It’s “Deep SEATED”.

  • 12:54 – WTF are you too pass judgment on (virtually) everyone besides yourself – you are a LEGITIMATE criticism of Park Slope…

    Guess what – no one needs you to “get us interested”

    Personally my guess is that YOU are living in a bubble of ignorance when it comes to War, the environment, the economy etc…. but I respect your right to be left alone in ignorance when you scream for less greenhouse gasses and AGAINST density like Atlantic Yards. or when you buy a new 30G hybrid, instead of a used car….

    I thought you ‘liberals’ like diversity – guess what – some of us think you are wrong, don’t need to be woken up and find your signs, shoes, glasses and preach-ness irritating.

    Again this isnt H.S. – try being independent

  • I am 12:54.

    I am pro Atlantic Yards.
    I do not own a car.
    I find the economy is rough. Not end of the world, though.
    War…don’t like this one, but opposed to them in general.

    You’re sorry, 1:15.

  • And I never ever said I was trying to pass judgment on anyone nor did I say that my views are any more valid or right than anyone else’s. I simply said I don’t feel comfortable anymore sitting back and watching life pass while not doing anything about it anymore.

    So I’ve decided to do things. They might not be the same things you do, but I put my money where my mouth is, so to speak.

    If you think that’s me being high school, then I guess I liked high school a lot more than I thought I did.

  • Wake me up when this thread is finished.

  • 1:05 – no one CARES about liberal activism – what many people find annoying is that the people who seem to be the loudest, most-judgemental against – suburbanization, chain stores consumerism and homogenization, etc….
    Are the most guilty – despite the fact that they wont STFU.

    Are you anti-consumerism and “different” simply by buying an Apple laptop?
    Do you get to be an environmentalist by eating organic foods (that contribute more to global warming?)
    Do you get to say you are ‘progressive’ and/or ‘liberal’ and/or ‘active’ simply by wearing the same ugly shoes, glasses socks and ironic t-shirt as every other moron you hang out with???

    The answer is NO and THAT is WHAT IS ANNOYING

  • wow 1:23. You sound like a really unhappy person.

    truly.

  • 12:54 – I am not sorry – just b/c I can’t immediately peg your hypocrisy doesn’t mean that we need you to “wake us up” with your silly little window signs or annoyingly repetitive conversations.

  • “Well when I see my parents fight
    I don’t wanna grow up
    They all go out and drinkin all night
    I don’t wanna grow up
    I’d rather stay here in my room
    Nothin’ out there but sad and gloom
    I don’t wanna live in a big old tomb on Grand Street”
    -Ramones, I Don’t Wanna Grow Up

    It’s, what, a half-dozen stops on the F Train from East Broadway to 7th Avenue in Park Slope?

  • 12.59, the lazy American way of pronouncing T in the middle of a word as a D has doubtless led to your confusion.

  • Biff Champion

    “♫ I don’t wanna grow up,
    I’m a Toys R’ Us kid.
    A million toys to choose from,
    that I can play with. ♬
    ♪ From bikes to trikes and video games,
    its the biggest toy stor there is. GEE WIZ!
    ♫ I don’t wanna grow up, cuz baby if I did….
    I wouldn’t be a toys r’ us kid! ♫ ♬♩♪♪….”
    - Geoffrey the Giraffe

  • Biff Champion

    It’s, what, a 3-hour tricycle ride from Clinton Hill to the TOYS”R”US store at 1514 Broadway?

  • Biff! What a delight. That was a memory poker.

    And Big Brown’s win was almost more than I could bear! I think I actually spilled Mint Julep all over the carpet, or at least slooshed it because I was jumping up and down in pure glee.

    He was like a freakin’ rocket, it was as though he had turbo charges that blasted off as he rounded that last corner… the blimp view was unbelievable.

    On to the Triple Crown! Let’s just pray nothing goes further wrong. No horses are hurt or killed, because if that happens again, I’m not sure I can continue to love it. But we’re going to Churchill Downs this weekend – I’ll not think of it yet.

  • Biff Champion

    Thanks Nokilissa, I just thought I would try to lighten up the mood a bit. Look at the bright side; had you spilled Mint Julep all over the carpet, you would have had one heck of a fun discussion on stain removals in the Forum (I mean the one here vs. Penthouse Forum – although I’m sure the topic’s come up there too).

    Anyway, a Triple Crown would sure be uplifting, especially after Eight Belles went down. It made me too once again question the sport. But I agree – let’s hope for the best at the Belmont and also hope for no more catastrophies.

    So as to at least reference the topic, I thought the article didn’t represent Park Slope accurately and was a sad fluff piece. As other posters have commented re the NY Times, I too find myself skimming over it faster and faster every weekend. Soon I’ll just do the Sunday crossword and shoot the rest into the recycle bin!

  • Havemeyer

    Park Slope has an annoying hill in the middle of it. During my real estate search while seven months pregnant, I slogged up it in 95 degree weather.

    And vowed to never ever move there.

    The other thing is — dare I say — Park Slope is kind of boring. There are lots of cute shops, but very few practical or unique ones. There are pretty houses, and pretty blocks and a pretty park, but again, there’s an annoying hill and long, long stretches of residential areas with not that many commercial options. Aside from muffins, pizza and bagels, there’s nothing to eat. The sidewalks are crowded. There’s a big hill.

    Also, the natives scare me.

  • the puero ricans, irish, italians or polish?

  • Biff Champion

    Lest Nokilissa begins to fear she overestimated the number of posts in this thread, along comes Heather to save the day!

  • “Park Slope is kind of boring”

    A neighborhood can’t be boring.

    People can be.

    And btw Heather, if you didn’t know Park SLOPE had a hill before you went there, you are a moron.

    I think you are regardless of that fact, but I digress.

  • Havemeyer

    I don’t think their ethnicity matters, 2:14, just their painful eco-consciousness.

  • “It’s places like this that keep the country in check. If we did not have these places, the United States could falter back to a majority Christian Conservative country.”

    In case you haven’t noticed, the USA is already a majority Christian conservative country. But you would have to travel to other states and speak with residents beyond NYC to know that. Paying attention to who the country has chosen the past two presidential elections might also be eye-opening for you.

    Park Slope may vote Democratic, but it is not liberal. Try proposing that all PS 321 students be bussed to PS 284 in Brownsville in order to achieve economic and racial parity and see how quickly Park Slope residents behave like the conservative small-town people they love to decry.

  • 10:47

    Slow down there buddy. You leave Amherst, MA out of this little ruckus. What are you anyway some closeted Williams grad looking to pick a fight on a blog?

    As to the article:

    The author is really wasting ink here with this piece. I guess it would have been too much work to point a lens on Crown Heights and talk about a neighborhood with issues worth discussing.

  • I’m late to this thread and a bit off-topic, but AMEN 10:54! I’m not an old lady, but I do sweep my sidewalk and keep it clean, and I grew up in CG in the 50-60s and still live there. The rest of my block (landmarked, by the way) is a disgrace. There used to be pride of place, pride of home, but no longer. Very sad.

  • People critical of Park Slope keep mixing up their stereotypes. I can’t even figure out what kind of “stroller moms” they are complaining about. Is it the bugaboo-pushing rich yuppies? Or the middle class “crunchy” moms who yell at the rich yuppie moms who don’t breastfeed, and are apparently too frumpily dressed to be allowed out of the house? Or the young, rich hipster moms who hate both groups and dress their toddlers in the t-shirts of their favorite bands?

    Gosh, the only moms I know in Park Slope actually don’t fit into any of those categories — they are just like most of the people who post on brownstoner, trying to raise their kids with decent values, improving the public schools, who bought in the ‘hood when it was possible to do so on an average family’s salary.

    Get a grip everyone. Park Slope has good and bad people just like every other neighborhood in Brooklyn. It also happens to already be a great neighborhood to live in, so people are jealous of the positive publicity it gets. I don’t even live in park slope, but the bashing is so ignorant and unnecessary.

  • Havemeyer

    I’ve been complaining about that hill since 1990, 2:18. It just wasn’t until I was pregnant that I realized how annoying it could be when one needs a bathroom and a glass of water and is at the bottom of it.

    Furthermore, before it was trendy, everyone thought PS was kind of boring. I do admire the community spirit, and I find some of the parenting resources there really useful, but there are reasons it’s an easy place to mock.

    Plus, again, there’s that hill.

    Enjoy navigating it with your laundry, stroller and goldenpoodle in two feet of snow!

  • rh

    1:23, Can you please explain how eating organic foods contributes more towards global warming? I’m intrigued by this theory. Thank you in advance.

  • Biff Champion

    The citizens of Myanmar and Sichuan Province would kill to live on blocks that some posters here consider a “disgrace”.

  • slopefarm

    I know I am asking for trouble with this, but here goes . . .

    It is getting extremely difficult to keep score of who is criticizing whom for what and why. Who, exactly, is it that won’t grow up, slopers or their critics? Is sweeping the sidewalks a good thing or bad and are the slopers who are hated the ones that do or do not sweep? Are “stroller moms” hated because they are too tolerant or not tolerant enough? Are slopers too liberal or do you wish they would spend more time working towards achieving the goals of their liberal beliefs?

    Just to position myself among the various stereotypes that have been thrown about on this post, I am neither (a) a teacher/artist/lesbian/sidewalk-sweeping hippie who helped begin the area’s revival in the 70s, nor (b) a celebrity actor/Wall-Streeter with a $3 million brownstone purchased in 2006 nor (c) a mom. I followed the trajectory of many slopers of a certain age. Moved into the neighborhood in the mid-eighties, worked full-time at my “liberal” activism for a few years, got an advanced degree, got married, and became a parent (in my case, a dad). Began as a renter, bought a co-op in the mid-90s and bought a south slope house in the early 00s. There are many layers and waves to the Slope’s gentrification and it is hard to generalize about any of it. Am I what the haters are mad about? Is it the half-generation before me that began the revival? Is it the more recent Wall-Street influx? Is it only moms people hate, or dads, too? After all, I did the whole bit — stroller, bjorn, music together, etc.

    It is hard to understand the venom without understanding who it is coming from. Here is what I propose: Any poster who has used the term “stroller mom” as a pejorative in the last 3 months, and anyone who has posted on this thread with a comment critical of Slope residents, please post on this thread and identify yourself demographically — age, gender, owner or renter, parent or not, and neighborhood of residence. Look withiin your soul for a few minutes and tell us, in earnest, what it is you really don’t like about people who live in the slope. I know this is the web, but have the integrity to come forward and tell us something about yourself and why and how the Slope affects you in a negative way. Is this really all about bumper stickers and organic food? Do you wish you lived here but are priced out? Do you live here and wish the neighborhood were less family-oriented? Did a mother pushing a stroller say something obnoxious to you on 7th Ave (and what was it)? Or is it something else? And what is it that you would have Slope residents do differently that would allow you to feel that your work here is done and you can drop the subject?

  • 2:20pm — Apparently, in order to achieve liberal credentials you must allow your kid to be sent far from home instead of to the local neighborhood school you have spent the last years working to improve. Of course parents would object. What you just described is the typical right wing conservative spin: “liberals want to send all your kids to crummy schools to achieve equality.”

    Guess what, I believe in universal healthcare. I guess I’m a hypocrite because I pay for good insurance and I don’t choose to go to the crappiest city hospitals for my medical treatments. By your standards, I have no right to fight for better health care coverage for all.

    In fact, if Park Slopers were the hypocrites you state, they’d send their kids to private school, not try to improve the local public schools, which is what they have done, NOT just 321, but nearly every school in Park Slope is now a decent public school.

    Stop trying to use the Republican line to scare everyone from wanting to make this country a better place for all. Stop acting as if the only way to do that is for us all to experience the things we are trying to change.

  • Biff, we’re talking about a very specific subject here. I’m very well aware and don’t need to be reminded of Myanmar or China and the suffering of those poor people…to whom I have already donated $$$…so you don’t need to be so self-righteous.

  • Biff Champion

    2:24/2:43, are you the same person that said, “I’m late to this thread and a bit off-topic, but…” Kinda goes agains you “talking about a very specific subject here”, don’t ya think?

  • Biff Champion

    Yes, I know it’s “against” and I wasn’t being self-righteous, just trying to keep things in perspective for everyone, including myself.

  • “to whom I have already donated $$”… talk about self-righteous.

  • Is Bill O’Rielly telling all his interns to post on this site?

  • Havemeyer

    Wait, I don’t see why I have to be a conservative to dislike Park Slope. Didn’t I already mention that big hill?

  • Key word “Slope”. Wake up!
    Actually all you need to be is independant to dislike it. The place is a herd of sheep.

  • Biff Champion

    No Heather, I don’t believe so. To what hill are you referring?

  • All this Park Slope envy & jealousy reminds me the classic Bibical tale of Joseph and his 11 brothers. Moral of the story? We are all brothers in the Brooklyn family, so lets all get along. That’s an order!

  • Havemeyer

    Well, yes, I hate the sheep part of it too. Park Slope is a place that welcomes diversity, as long as diversity recycles, pays market rent, and doesn’t vaccinate its children.

    Oh, and 2:33, what does my gender have to do with it?

    (Sorry, as a Park Slopian, I thought you’d appreciate that.)

  • Havemeyer

    Well, Biff, perhaps you are not aware of this, but there is a really big hill in the middle of Park Slope! It slants down! For several blocks!

  • 2:33 – easy to say why I don’t like PS! for me, the city is about excitement, fashion, music, night life, edge, art, being in the middle of the most beautiful people, places, and things on the planet. PS is none of those things. it’s far from the city to boot. it’s the opposite of NY for me.

    also, the people seem to be either boring just got here from the upper west side types or hypocritical liberals or poorly dressed frumpy god knows what they do for a living.

    really, i’ve been in NY for almost 20 years, but the midwest suburb i grew up in had better dressed people with better decorating taste.

    yes, PS has old buildings (if you like that sort of thing), but the interiors to so many just couldn’t be worse. no uniqueness, no spice, nothing to spark the imagination.

    re my demo – 40′s, married, parent, large condo owner, creative arts management, north brooklyn

  • I would like to dedicate this song to Heather: Running Up That Hill by Kate Bush


    It doesn’t hurt me.
    Do you want to feel how it feels?
    Do you want to know, know that it doesn’t hurt me?
    Do you want to hear about the deal that I’m making?
    You, It’s you and me.

    And if I only could,
    I’d make a deal with God,
    And I’d get him to swap our places,
    Be running up that road,
    Be running up that hill,
    Be running up that building.
    Say, If I only could, oh…

    You don’t want to hurt me,
    But see how deep the bullet lies.
    Unaware, I’m tearing you asunder.
    Ooh, There is thunder in our hearts.

    Is there so much hate for the ones who love?
    Tell me we both matter don’t we?

    You,
    It’s you and me,
    It’s you and me who won’t be unhappy.

    And if I only could,
    I’d make a deal with God,
    And I’d get him to swap our places,
    Be running up that road,
    Be running up that hill,
    Be running up that building.
    Say, If I only could, oh…

    You,
    It’s you and me,
    It’s you and me who won’t be unhappy.

    Come on baby, come on darling
    Let me steal this moment from you now
    Oh come on angel, come on come on darlin’
    Let’s exchange the experience oh…

    And if I only could,
    I’d make a deal with God,
    And I’d get him to swap our places,
    Be running up that road,
    Be running up that hill,
    With no problems…

    Say if I only could,
    I’d make a deal with God,
    And I’d get him to swap our places,
    Be running up that road,
    Be running up that hill,
    With no problems…

    Say if I only could,
    I’d make a deal with God,
    And I’d get him to swap our places,
    Be running up that road,
    Be running up that hill,
    With no problems…

    Say, If I only could…
    Oh…
    Be running up that hill,
    With no problems…

    If only I could,
    Be running up that hill…

  • Heather, its not in the middle. Park slope is one side of a hill, known in common parlance as a “slope”. It slopes down from the Park. Its called Park Slope.

  • if your idea of NYC is fun and excitment why would you be living anywhere outside of manhattan.

    90% of brooklyn at night is a ghost town.

  • slopefarm

    3:12 –

    Thanks for the response. Sounds like you are living in a good place for the things that matter to you. That’s great. It doesn’t sound to me like you are the kind of person who anonymously posts invective about “stroller moms” or the other Slope-related venom that frequently flies in threads on this site or was the subject of the Times article. Have you?

  • Biff Champion

    Heather interesting. Any thoughts on the following:

    1) Is Park Slope kind of boring?

    2) Are there many commercial options or things to eat aside from muffins, pizza and bagels?

    3) Are the sidewalks crowded?

    4) Are the natives scary, eco-conscious and sheep-like?

    5) Is there a big, annoying hill?

  • i find it funny that many people hate park slope because its too crowded and noisy but mr.3:12 dislikes it because its boring and filled with boring people.

    I guess you cant win.

    with that said im a 23 year old prospect heights resident who is not married, rents and works at a record label. I love Park Slope and enjoy a good time in williamsburg. Cant say I dislike any part of brooklyn I have visted.

  • Now that we all know what everyone else thinks about PS night life, architecture, art, culture, and food, how about those stroller mommies? Anyone think we should regulate those strollers? Let’s require DMV registration. Maybe we can regulate the size? Let’s do charge a fee though! Natives pay double. Italians, Irish, Polish, and Puerto Ricans go free (Hey, if the eco-conscious are the natives, then they are the establishment!). Where’s the person offering the crisp “Fin”?

  • Havemeyer

    Biff I’d be delighted to answer your questions!

    1) Is Park Slope kind of boring?
    Yes, it is kind of boring.

    2) Are there many commercial options or things to eat aside from muffins, pizza and bagels?
    To be fair, I believe there is a also a Tibetan store and some vegan sandwich place. Possibly more than one vegan sandwich place. And a few opticians and toy stores.

    3) Are the sidewalks crowded?
    Okay, you got me. Only on the main avenue blocks, where apparently the mix of muffins, pizza, bagels, opticians and vegan sandwich places have become a huge tourist draw.

    4) Are the natives scary, eco-conscious and sheep-like?
    Extremely. Best shred those Fresh Direct boxes or your neighbors might give you a lecture.

    5) Is there a big, annoying hill?
    Yes, yes there is!! And it runs through the middle of the entire neighborhood!

  • “to whom I have already donated $$”… talk about self-righteous.” It is not self-righteous, it is being aware of life outside B’stone Brooklyn.

  • 3:44 you’re being self-righteous again.

  • ok, but look at the UES, 20 times more boring than PS.

  • Do people really think there are good bagels in park slope?

    I mean, I’ve lived there for 6 months (after Tischman Speyer gave me a 35% rent increase in Mahattan), and the only good bagels I found were at Bergen Bagels, which is across flatbush so I’m calling it Prospect Heights.

    All in all, I don’t get all the fuss. It’s a nice place, but a little pricey considering how much the commute sucks.

  • Havemeyer

    I never said the bagels were good, just that there are lots of them.

  • slopefarm

    Biff,

    You may have met your match in sarcasm.

    Heather,

    Where do you live? How would you answer Biff’s questions applied to your own neighborhood?

  • Heather,

    lol re: bagel quality. :)

  • Anyone who says that he/she lives in New York because of the “edge” is an ABSOLUTE TOOL!!!!!

    Seriously folks. What the hell is edge?

    Can someone please tell me where the edge is in Disneyland…I mean Manhattan?!

  • Park Slope is good for Brooklyn and I love Brooklyn. I’ve lived here for just about my entire life so I know the Park Slope of old and new. I live and own in Stuyvesant Heights and everything Park Slope has I want here. Not replicated but nuanced. Tailored to fit the growing diversity of this neighborhood. The number of active parents per capita is growing steadily. Yay Park Slope. Here’s hoping other Brooklyn neighborhoods aren’t too far behind.

  • Here’s an interesting little note about the strollers, the sidewalks and the moms:

    Most of the hatred seems spawned from a tiny strip of 7th Avenue between about Flatbush to Union Street where the original bluestone sidwalks are quite narrow. It does indeed make traversing it with any stroller (or shopping bag) difficult at times, but that’s the price you pay for having great, unique old sidewalks instead of concrete slabs.

    Once you hit Union, it’s smooth sailing, and if you’ve ever had a problem with those sidewalks, you really need to consider having your stomach stapled.

    And I’m also curious to know how Park Slope is dead and boring, but also crowded and too many restaurants, bars and shops all at the same time…

    I waited over an hour for a table at Al Di La on Friday night at 10pm. Doesn’t sound to me as if Park Slope is hurting because of all this pr.

    As a publicist, I do agree that any pr, is good pr. Every comment you make here makes another person want to come out and see for themselves what all the “fuss” is about.

    And more people than not end up loving Park Slope.

    That is, afterall why prices are skyrocketing…both rentals and home prices and why brownstones are still a sought after commodity here.

    You do understand supply and demand, right?

    If everyone thought Park Slope REALLY sucked, home prices would not be some of the highest in the borough.

    See how this works?

  • Havemeyer

    Slopefarm,

    I just moved from Williamsburg to Fort Greene. Or Clinton Hill. Actually, I am not sure which boundary line we fall in and I do not know this neighborhood well enough to mock it. Yet!

    But if it would make you feel better, we can mock Williamsburg now. Or you can mock my granite countertops and recessed lighting… I’m not that fussed.

  • 3:56 Bagel Hole in ps has the best bagels in the city.

    - A guy that doesn’t live in Park Slope.

  • Biff Champion

    slopefarm, you got that right! Much to the delight of everyone here, I’m speechless. Ok, almost speechless (sorry everyone).

    Heather, you are the perfect storm of daveinbedstuy, Jerri, Nokilissa, Polemicist and me all rolled up into one. I’m humbled in your presence. You are as refreshing as a bean sprout smoothie to a vacationing Frenchman on Prospect Park West.

    Speaking of Williamsburg, isn’t there an annoying hill running through the middle of that entire neighborhood?

  • I second the bagel hole as best bagels in NYC.

    Tied with H&H

  • 2:32 – because organic foods (especially meats and milk) require more time to produce the same yield – which means that you need more cows for the same amount of milk and more animals for the same amount of meat – both of which require more feed which requires more carbon to produce as well as the fact that the animals themselves end up producing tons and tons of additional greenhouse gases.

    Organic farm products also produce lower yields , thereby requiring more be planted, cared for and transported.

    Not saying that “organic=bad”, just that organic=more greenhouse gases.

    If your concerned about global warming then eat locally produced fresh produce and meat

  • Organic also means no harmful pesticides and chemicals, 4:25.

    THAT is what is most harmful towards the environment.

    NOT more time or more animals.

    God you are stupid.

  • Havemeyer

    Yes there is Biff, but the pizza is much better. Also there is the giglio.

    And, thanks! I think. Mais, ou devrait le francais trouve un magasin qui vend les smoothies a prospect park ouest?

  • have lived in PS for only 4 years, but all of the press on the neighborhood seems strangely out of touch with what you experience day to day.. People seem to seeing what they want to see. The myth of the slope is alive and well but the real place is getting buried underneath people’s projections.

  • Terrace Bagels are tasty, btw. They have at Union Market, next to Bagel Hole, which are good if you eat them hot right away.

  • Really 4:25? I’m stupid?

    The question posed was how does eating organic contribute to GLOBAL WARMING and I provided the answer.

    Your response indicates that your reading comprehension is very low (isnt that a sign of stupidity)

    and who says that “chemicals and pesticides” are “most harmful” to the environment anyway (besides you)

    Can you cite a single study that compares the ecological risk from pesticides and chemicals to the expected effects of global warming?

  • where is the website that says organic food is worse for global warming?

    i’m waiting….

  • Biff Champion

    Heather, oh mon dieu! Je ne sais pas ou devrait le francais trouve un magasin qui vend les smoothies a prospect park ouest. Pres de les fleurs et les fruits et legumes dans le marche a Grand Army Plaza? Je m’excuse mais je ne parle pas francais. Tabernacle!

  • Havemeyer

    Choir!

    Je cois que les hatiennes qui vivent a l’autre cote sur le parc devrait avoit les smoothies des legumes. Je sais qu’ils avait les “sea moss.”

  • Biff and Heather get a room.

  • “i’ve got a crisp $5 bill waiting for the first person who has anything interesting or original to say on this subject…”

    I rented an apartment at 415 Bergen between 5th and 4th from 1991 to about 1997. One summer day I was hanging out of my second-floor window looking into the street. All of a sudden a guy I knew from the barber shop on 5th between Bergen and Dean (now a coffee shop) was chasing another guy down Bergen, firing a gun. The “chaser” fired at least three shots but missed, then stopped running, turned back and walked quickly away in the other direction. The cops never showed up. I saw the guy a few weeks later. I didn’t talk about what I saw. I’m not sure that would happen these days. Or, then again perhaps it might.

  • On the organic vs. local issue, this article says local food might actually cause more greenhouse gases because local truck farmers carry less food per vehicle.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/business/yourmoney/09feed.html

  • “Bagel Hole, which are good if you eat them hot right away.”

    Precisely. If you have to toast a bagel to eat it, its not a bagel.

  • slopefarm

    Heather,

    Wow, three neighborhoods to mock. Actually, I have no interest in doing so. If you were happy in Williamsburg, great (hill or no hill). If you are happy on the FG/CH border, great as well (granite or no granite). And please let us slopers know where we can find superior bagels in Fort Greene.

  • Biff Champion

    Heather, peut-etre mais je préfère de beaucoup Kate Moss vs. sea moss!

    4:51, fermez la bouche!

  • hey slopers: watch out for that slippary slope!!!

  • I don’t live in Park Slope…but I go there frequently for ‘The Chocolate Room’ on Fifth Avenue – the best cupcakes ever!

  • daveinbedstuy

    Just adding my 2 cents worth here..

    Been at a conference all day…mos of rest of week too and then away for 6-7 day long weekend

    I like bagels toasted…who cares

  • I don’t think any other neighborhood in Brooklyn is quite as relentless as Park Slope to brand itself, and yet i’m still not quite sure (nobody is) what aspect they are trying to sell. Whatever it is, I’m really not that interested. Actually, I’m kind of annoyed and slightly amused at the same time. Like in the same way one might be of the kid that sits at the front of the class constantly raising his hand.

  • daveinbedstuy

    Whats all the French about…I’m too tired to read this whole bloody thread and I need a drink

  • I live in Prospect Heights, but a couple of my new favorite restaurants in Brooklyn have opened on 7th Avenue in Park Slope recently…

    Barrio (mexican) and Moim (korean).

    Best Korean I’ve had in the city including Koreatown.

    And I’m Korean.

    Barrio makes a MEAN Watermelon Mint Margarita!

  • “Heather, you are the perfect storm of daveinbedstuy, Jerri, Nokilissa, Polemicist and me all rolled up into one.”

    She’s nothing like those people. She’s funny and has some interesting insight.

  • daveinbedstuy

    Glad to see you guests still have me in mind even though I haven’t been here all day

  • Park Slope is like Apple/Mac…

    It’s a little more expensive, but the beauty more than makes up for what it lacks.

  • Biff Champion

    5:03, isn’t a new Chocolate Room opening on Smith Street? I’m serious (je suis serioux).

  • i think heather is boring.

    and a little too sloped for my taste.

  • Park slope is a little to yuppified, I do live there and I love the park, restaurants and the general feel of the hood.

    I am looking to buy and I can afford the Slope, but I can see the Burbs comparison that the Times suggested. I am not sure the Slope would want me in the Hood, I bet Willy B would be happier to have me and open beer drinking and my motorcycles (too bad I hate hipsters), but I will most likely purchase outside of the Slope so as not to offend the protected nature of the Hood.

    I would never describe Park Slope as Cool (bear in mind I am young and enjoy late nights and being a little rowdy) I would describe Park Slope as Beautiful and Comfortable!

  • Heather is right about that hill…it’s a mother.

  • 5:15: are you missing a chromosome?

    “so as not to offend the protected nature of the hood”

    so you don’t do what you want in life because of what other people think…?

    VERY healthy….

  • Biff Champion

    “She’s nothing like those people. She’s funny and has some interesting insight.”

    5:09#2, that must mean she’s nothing like you too!

  • Havemeyer

    Having a discussion about whether buying locally is good or not is extremely Park Slope.

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that!

    Excuse me now, while I shred my Fresh Direct, Urban Organic and Amazon Prime boxes.

  • daveinbedstuy

    Biff was it Heather who flew in for the weekend to visit you???

  • FYI – 4:25/4:51 is correct about organic being a suspect classification. 4:28 needs to do some research.

    You can spray a field for years with the most toxic stuff known to man, then stop, and the next crop you grow can be called ‘organic’. You think the toxins are gone in a few months. Think again.

    Also, there are organic pesticides, so everything organic is still covered in pesticides. You think that makes them safe? Think again.

    Finally, 4:25 is talking about yields per acre, and is right again. One acre can yield about 50% to 75% produce when utilizing organic farming methods vs. conventional. You need to provide the same amount of water, fertilizer, etc, but you only get half the food from the same acre. That creates double the run off. You think natural fertilizer is good for the water table? Think again.

    Is organic food better from you? Maybe, but no study will ever prove that either way.

    Is it better for the environment? No way.

    Does it make the produce companies more $$ per box since you are all ready pay double for the stuff with the word ‘organic’ on the box. Hell yea.

  • shes not right about the hill, she thinks its in the middle of the place.

  • 5:38 = talking out of his/her ahole.

  • Biff Champion

    Dave, yes, Heather and her lovely husband and child flew in from Fort Greene (or Clinton Hill, depending on who’s defining the boundaries) to provide me with complimentary French lessons, which were interspersed with toasted bagel and sea moss smoothie breaks. We also had a contest to see who could come up with the best insults for neighborhoods neither of us had ever been to.

  • Havemeyer

    Actually, I wanted him to visit us instead, but he was afraid of the Bricolage.

    My husband won the contest because he comes from a harsh cruel land.

  • Biff Champion

    Heather, is it a harsh cruel land with giant annoying hill in the middle of it?

  • Havemeyer

    Actually, like most harsh cruel lands, I believe it has several. They call them mountains, but it’s all the same thing.

  • Havemeyer

    Then again, maybe calling them in the “middle” of the country is deceptive, much like calling the giant hill in the “middle” of Prospect Park West and Fourth Avenue may be confusing to some small and dim minds.

  • I don’t think the giants find it annoying at all. Clearly its just the little people that are irked by it.

  • 5:40 if that’s what you gotta believe to get through the day eating your ‘healthy’ foods, then go ahead.

    But your blanket dismissal without providing any citation or proof shows your ignorance.

    Try reading this, the USDA list of substances allowed in organic farming (incl sulfur dioxide, boric acid (i.e. rat poison) and Copper sulfate), then come back and talk some more garbage:

    http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRDC5068682&acct=nopgeninfo

    Oh, read this too:

    http://skepdic.com/organic.html

  • Havemeyer

    True, the giants have larger feet and thus take fewer steps.

    6:10, you totally live in Park Slope, don’t you?

    Or Williamsburg.

  • sulfur dioxide, copper sulfate and boric acid are all natural substances.
    Do they allow H2O also? What about urea (natural fertilizer). Are the plants subjected to CO2 – the horror!

  • Uranium is also a natural substance.

  • Urine is also a natural substance.

  • Exactly – so whats the problem?

    urine is sterile also.

  • I liked these threads better back when people offered snacks.

  • uranium is already in the soil, all plants are exposed to it, organic or not. Whats your point?

    The “USDA list of substances allowed in organic farming” needs to be read by the informed. Not some dingbat who sees a chemical name and immediately assumes the chemical is only man-made a la 6.10.

  • Is that a scottish version of a macaroon?

  • “I liked these threads better back when people offered snacks.”

    Agreed. The emergence of these Biff and Heather characters has really ruined these boards.

  • looks like heather was wrong about the 280 plus comments.

    among other things…

  • Hey 6:32/6:17/4:51/4:25 how bout you drink a sulfur dioxide, boric acid and copper sulfate milkshake. Go to wikipedia – they are all toxic.

    Go ahead, don’t believe me. Don’t read about it for yourself. Don’t provide a single citation to counter the numerous points I have made (with references).

    While you are at it, keep paying extra to poison yourself. At least when you die young you will still feel superior to me. And that’s all that matters, right?

  • 7:12 = off his meds

  • Havemeyer

    I’d offer to whip up some brownies, but sadly I don’t have any marijuana so I doubt the PS crowd would be interested. Still, perhaps I can find a local organic vegan baker? In Fort Greene? Does cake man Raven count?

  • hahaha…

    heather…you’ve been pissing me off all day with your comments, the slope in the slope and sh#t.

    but i just had a j and am stoned out of my gourd right now and just laughed out loud to your brownie/pot comment.

    and yes, i live in park slope. getting ready for the season finale of gossip girl and making fondu with a couple friends…

    you are redeemed.

    wanna go to excelsior sometime?

  • arsenic – is natural as well and most plants are exposed to trace amounts – doesnt mean i want an organic farmer sprinkling it on my food.

    See how hard it is to deal with new information when you do what you do – not b/c it is factually correct but b/c everyone else is doing it and b/c you think it makes you morally superior.

  • daveinbedstuy

    7;40…I am Biff’s wing man and I think Heather and he are an item already

  • 5:09: Any recommendations at Moim? Would love to try the place.

    I usually go to Koreatown and Dokebi in Williamsburg and always up from trying something new.

  • their shrimp chive cakes, black cod with pepper sauce and short ribs are all amazing.

    i really love the korean meatballs there too…

    ambience and decor are lovely…the back patio is perfect.

    nice spot for a great dining experience.

    you also must try the pomegranate ginger mimosa. i had three last time i was there…

    http://www.moimrestaurant.com/index.html

  • thank you, 8:36! The back patio will be great this summer.

  • Havemeyer

    Sadly, the only neighborhood that really welcomes polyandry is Park Slope.

    Or possibly West Bushwick.

  • scratching my balls right now is more gratifying than reading the dribble posted here by you schmucks.

  • “If you lived here, you’d be home now.”

  • Two words in support of Park Slope:

    Steve Buscemi

    Isn’t that all you have to say?

  • i saw bjork on saturday in park slope. she doesn’t live there though, does she?

  • Biff Champion

    Heather, je pensais que les Alpes françaises a tous les coins de France et pas seulement dans le milieu. I believe polyandry is practiced in Tibet. We could have the good folks at Mandala Tibetan Store on 7th Avenue in Park Slope confirm this.

    I think 7:40 is on to something, in addition to being on something. Perhaps people need to increase their recreational activities and chill out here. Some whackatabacky and fondue might be exactly what the doctor ordered. I think the best fondue I ever had was in Switzerland. They must have poured a full bottle of red wine into each pot. After a couple of hours I began to imagine a giant cuckoo clock emerge from Lake Geneva.

    “scratching my balls right now is more gratifying than reading the dribble posted here by you schmucks.”
    10:42 = Hamadryas Baboon at Prospect Park Zoo

  • Re the ecological argument over organic vs. non-organic foods, this article from Wired should be of interest:

    http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/magazine/16-06/ff_heresies_03organics

  • I wanna bjork bjork

  • Once as I was waiting in line to buy a cup of ice cream at Louie Gs on Union and 5th, a completely crazed PS lady was badgering the 16 year old behind the window “DO YOU KNOW HOW BAD THESE PLASTIC CUPS ARE FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, DO YOU KNOW, DO YOU KNOW…”.

    That’s the freakin problem. A few aholes like that turn your stomach. Write a letter to the owner lady leave the girl alone.

  • I came up from Baltimore last weekend to visit a friend in Brooklyn who lives in an overpriced wasteland neighborhood somewhere south(?)of Park Slope. PS is a long boring slog away and not all that interesting once there. Baltimore has plenty of wasteland but at least it’s cheap. Brooklyn just seems like a scam, banking on all the hype it’s gotten over the past decade for hipster enclaves and crappy rock bands. For a citizenry that prides itself on being streetwise, NYC sure is full of suckers.