AY Owners, Renters File Eminent Domain Appeal

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Eleven property owners and tenants within the Atlantic Yards footprint filed a petition yesterday asking the U.S. Supreme Court to hear their eminent domain case, nearing its 18th month in the judiciary system still without a trial. The case was dismissed twice by lower courts in developer Forest City Ratner’s favor. Since news broke of the basketball arena and high-rise project’s Dec. 19, 2009 kill-date (as long as Ratner stops pursuing litigation or construction matters), a lot of attention has been focused on the ticking clock rather than the people arguing beneath it. Now, about that legal case: In short, it seeks to clarify the Supreme Court’s controversial Kelo v. New London decision in 2005, which allowed the Connecticut city to give a developer private property for the purpose of economic development. In that case, eminent domain was decided by a legislative body, whereas Atlantic Yards was voted on by three publicly accountable politicians, though it went through a lengthy review process. And lead attorney for the plaintiffs Matthew Brinckerhoff said Kelo’s definition of public purpose was vague, leaving the average person vulnerable to having their property handed over to more influential citizens. They want the chance to vet that out more, and further investigate who Atlantic Yards was actually intended to benefit.

Forest City Ratner execs have long called lawsuits and appeals filed by project opponents “delay tactics” that deprive citizens benefits from the project’s arena, affordable housing and jobs. And now Ratner has found himself in credit crunch territory, possibly delaying or killing key components of the project. Lead plaintiff Daniel Goldstein, who owns a condo in the arena footprint, said it’s about their constitutional rights. But as far as the ticking clock, he said this is their last federal appeal, and he expects the court to decide whether to hear it this July. “If they don’t take our case, or take our case and rule against us, then we will go to state court, the appellate division, and raise our state claims.” When asked if they could drag out their case until 2010, after which time Forest City could automatically default if he decides not to continue pursuing litigation, Goldstein said, “We will take our case as far as we can to protect our constitutional rights.”
Ratner Only Required To Show Arena Financing for Eminent Domain Approval[Brownstoner]
Read The Fine Print[Atlantic Yards Report]
Slow Economy Likely to Stall Atlantic Yards [NY Times]
What Will Be Left of Gehry’s Vision for Brooklyn? [NY Times]

0 Comment

  • woohoo empty pit! go Brooklyn!

  • Biff Champion

    Just got this message…are posters now being censored?

    “Thank You for Commenting
    Your comment has been received. To protect against malicious comments, I have enabled a feature that allows your comments to be held for approval the first time you post a comment. I’ll approve your comment when convenient; there is no need to re-post your comment. Return to the comment page”

  • Biff,
    Because the spammer–and now yo–can’t behave civilly, we’re having to review comments before they go up to spare readers having to wade through your crap. As we’ve said before, this ain’t an issue of free speech. This blog is like our living room and you’re like a guest at our party. If you behave like a jerk, you’re not going to be welcome.
    Mr. B

  • B is giving himself the option of censoring the faded type spammer and The What (aka The Lodi Loser), as well as censoring everyone else.

  • Biff,

    Mr. B and the cool kids are not inviting you to his party.

    Loser

  • Wow Brownstoner – that was a pretty harsh response to Biff’s query which didn’t seem that uncivil – or did you not post a comment of his that was more offensive?

  • C’mon, this thread is supposed to instigate a pro-AY vs. DDDB flame war! Not discuss issues of “free speech.”

  • Biff Champion

    Making a harmless joke and pointing out comments are now being censored is considered acting in an uncivil manner?

  • No, Biff. As you’ll notice we printed your comment about being censored. What we had to delete were multiple instances of your cutting-and-pasting spam.

  • Biff, Biff, Biff. Look what you did now. Yesterday you were trying You really need to learn to behave yourself. This just a blog about real estate. That’s all.

  • Biff Champion

    Thanks 10:32 #1. No, Brownstoner posted everything except one little clean harmless joke that was removed (which at least daveinbedstuy appreciated). I know the faded type spammer has caused them frustration, but as someone who has constantly battled The What’s lack of respect for others and always tried to contribute in a positive manner, I’m pretty baffled at Brownstoner’s reaction. I can appreciate and understand more now why people sign in as guests. Too bad if this comment was off-topic.

  • Biff Champion

    My “cutting-and-pasting spam” was my own joke repeated only one time after it was deleted (what I thought was mistakenly) the first time.

  • Biff, Biff, Biff. Look what you did now. Yesterday you were trying to tell me I needed to get out more after I said the What was funny. But I guess you’re the one who needs a reality check, man. You really need to learn to behave yourself. This just a blog about real estate. That’s all.

  • Anyway, back to the matter at hand…Goldstein and DDDB absolutely disgust me…its one thing to fight for your rights and quite another to abuse the legal system…so let me get this straight…on eminent domain, they file a case in federal court – lose, appeal to federal appeals court – lose, and then appeal to the United States Supreme Court. Considering the fact that the Supremes actually hear about 2% of the cases presented to them (and considering that they already decided this subject matter with Kelo, with largely the same members), chances are this case WILL NOT be heard by the Supreme Court. To the extent that is the outcome, you mean to tell me that they are going to start the process again on the federal level? That is absolutely ridiculous. Daniel Goldstein is publicity whore…we should start calling him “Kristen”

  • “They could also then take the case to the “Supreme Supreme” Court, he said.”

    Huh?

  • Biff Champion

    10:38/10:46, yes, I’ll say it again, please get out more and get an idea of your own rather than repeating yourself with non-points. Indeed, look what I did now, continued to elicit a reaction from you…TWICE! Thanks.

  • dude, court of last resort. ever hear of it? the only way ANYONE can even attempt to go to the Supreme Court is after losing a series of appeals. so what are you talking about?

  • The thing is that (as I predicted), Goldstein’s tactics were always designed to simply delay, harrass and roadblock using every and any method available. He (and the other NIMBY’s) have no principles or true agenda other then to stop the arena (the other development is not wanted but even if Ratner was building Brownstones, they would oppose b/c of the arena).

    The never ending frivolous suits (yes they are frivolous if they have no reasonable legal basis) and objections were never designed to win on the merits but simply designed to make the process so slow and costly as to destroy it.

    Goldstein and DDDB-Nimbys) dont really care about ED, or the environment, or schools, or traffic, or density – they just dont want the Arena and will do anything and say anything to stop it. And right now it looks like they were successful in destroying the office/residential/retail component through these tactics.
    The irony thing is that under Kelo (and all other precedents) the Arena is actually the easiest with which to base an ED action.
    But this should be a case study in the disfunction in our system – because no matter where you stand on this particular development such tactics can and are used to stop (and drive up the costs) of ALL such projects – from school construction to mass transit.
    And btw now you know why Godstein wanted and the politicians went around ULURP – because the only purpose it serves is to add more delay and more roadblocks to any project.

  • Good for them. They should use every means at their disposal–as I’m sure most everyone would if their home was being taken from them and given to a private developer simply looking to turn a profit. This isn’t a freeway or a hospital, and Ratner isn’t doing anything out of the kindness of his heart. He is looking to make money, plain and simple. I wish these homeowners luck.

  • 11:06 – DDDB and the community support the alternative Extell project, which provides more affordable housing and pays more to the MTA for the railyards and is proposed by a private developer. We do care about the schools, the air, the sewers, the traffic because we live in Prospect Heights. To learn more about dddb and its positions take a look at their website: http://www.dddb.net. They have a wealth of information about AY available there.

  • 11:20, you’re an idiot. You people act like they are trying to kick Goldstein a/k/a “Kristen” out in the street (“…home was being TAKEN from them and GIVEN to a private developer…”). Nothing is being GIVEN to anybody…they have to pay Goldstein a/k/a “Kristen” for it. I have a friend who lived in that building. He bought a one bedroom $450k and sold it to Ratner SIX MONTHS LATER for $900k!! We are supposed to be crying for these people?!?

  • 11:20 – it wouldn’t matter if it were a hospital, freeway, school, university (Columbia?) or essential infrastructure etc….
    the tactics being employed are available no matter what the project (see Van Cortland Park water treatment plant)

    The “private developer for private profit” is simply a populist slogan – if the State or City were building this (or similar) project the NIMBYs would be employing the same tactics (albeit with different slogans).

    In the end we all pay – and it costs alot more then any deffered taxes or preferential financing that Ratner might get.

  • 11:35AM – your a loser. You have one agenda Danny G, and that agenda is a selfish one. your dad was a stealing heartless punk & so are you. AY will be built, The only thing Danny G is doing is creating a rotting hole in the ground.

  • Windfall guy. Do you realize that the city is giving Ratner $100million to reiumburse him for those buyouts made under the threat of eminent domain. Your tax dollars for Ratner to overpay to move people out of the way. awesome!

    previous commenter. The state or city wouldn’t be buliding this. thats the point.

  • I say this it doesn’t matter Brownstoner. This site has jumped the shark. And now you will have to spend time censoring comments. I wish you luck on that. I hope you have do censor 8 billion comments. The site doesn’t cover to the real residents of your neighborhood. Brownstoner why don’t you cover Fulton St and Putnam, huh? Why don’t you cover the restaurants on Fulton St.? Jolloff has served this community for over 13 years.

    Now you say this Blogs is an extension of your living room? I say this Blog os an extension of your ego.

    I wonder if you put this up, plus you don’t have worry about The What. Enjoy the decreasing traffic to your site.

    BTW You wrote if I stopped using profanity you would unblock my IP address but, I knew this was a fairy tale. Enjoy your sanitized site, devoid of opinions of others.

    The What

    Someday this war is gonna end…

  • The Extell plan was always a red-herring – Extell’s plan was not financially viable and was submitted as a “hey you never know” – but either way – I have checked in the alternative/bizzaro universe where the Extell plan was accepted – and wouldn’t you know it but 2mo after the MTA picked Extell, the “community” started having “issues” with that plan and it is also stuck in litigation

  • 11:25 – I respect your opinion and I respect those who oppose the scale of the AY project, but I DO NOT respect Daniel Goldstein a/k/a “Kristen”. People like him have simple agenda, to create publicity for themselves, and creating drama in their otherwise meaningliess lives. Please don’t kid yourself by thinking it would be any different if Extell won the bid. Let me put it this way 11:25, do you honestly believe that if the MTA sold the railyards to Extell over Ratner and tried to build the Unity Plan, that there would not have been some group of NIMBY’s undertaking the exact same tactics that DDDB are using (frivolous lawsuits, protests, delaying tactics). Goldstein a/k/a “Kristen” and people like him are the specific reason why (i) the Dodgers moved to LA (forreal), (ii) why that site has been a whole in the ground for 50 years and (iii) (if they had their way) why the corner of Flatbush and Atlantic will be a whole in the ground for the next 50 years. These people have no talent, they can’t create anything, so they figure it’s easier to either destroy or maintain the status quo. Small minded people with NO VISION.

  • See Biff, Brownstoner hates you too. Oh, you thought he loved you because you rage war with The What. No Biff, Brownstoner want this site to like him. See if you can understand that.

    I talked about Real Estate from day one and still I’m being banned. This is not a Real Estate Blog, it’s open class and race warfare.

    The What

    Someday this war is gonna end…

  • I personally vote against any censorship of comments, despite the fact that your “it’s like my living room” argument is well-taken.

    My take on it is this, and I’m trying to tread lightly here because I don’t want to be tarred with the same brush as the serial posting nimrod.

    Why *can’t* we have normal text in the comments section? Mind you, the serial poster was acting like an idiot and probably made you less disposed than *ever* to allow normal text in this part of the site. However, I would appreciate a text ‘upgrade’ and I suspect others would do.

    Anyhoo…that’s enough about that. My next post will be about zoning allowances!

  • the Dodgers moved to LA because Robert Moses didn’t want them to build a new stadium at Atlantic Terminal.

    this one is funny:

    “Extell’s plan was not financially viable”

    unlike Ratner’s air tight, financially iron clad…uh, whoops.

  • My, my, my 12:05 you are upset. Are your initials ‘BR’?
    Say what you will about Dan, he was the one who stood up, did what the rest of us cannot or won’t do. He gave up a normal life to fight this corporate thief when hardly anyone else in the government or the community would. Community groups got on the Ratner gravy train and were bought out. DDDB publicized (with a few others) the sneaky backroom details of the project. We are not against development, but why do we need the densest tract in the US built in a neighborhood of 4 story building? Why should we line FCR’s pockets while our kids get asthma? What about schools, traffic. Why have FCR ignored the terrorist threat – someone nearly blew up the Atlantic Avenue Station a few years ago – and proposed a glass front stadium. When these questions are answered I will reevaluate my opinion of Mr Goldstein.

  • Yeah 11:50 – b/c States never build Stadiums, Arenas, or other public entertainment/cultural venues?

  • Biff Champion

    The What, I don’t think your comments (or anyone else’s) should be censored for this to be a place for true expression of ideas and opinions (good grief, I think we’re on the same page on this one). Just eliminate the faded text spamming and let everyone else throw in their two cents.

    However, I disagree that this is true class and race warfare since they didn’t check where I fell in either of those demographics before removing my comment.

  • “Say what you will about Dan, he was the one who stood up, did what the rest of us cannot or won’t do. He gave up a normal life to fight this corporate thief when hardly anyone else in the government or the community would.”

    He’s not a hero. Other people didn’t do what he did because many of them happen not to agree with him. Who cares about whether ot or not his life is “normal?” I don’t agree about the threats you mentioned, and I personally see jobs and housing as community benefits. I have neighbors who agree with my views. We may not agree with every aspect of the Ratner plan, but overall, folks like me prefer that plan to the non-ideas emanating from DG and his friends. Don’t get it twisted.

  • I’d support normal text in the comments section because the person who ORIGINALLY posted regarding this issue (NOT the spammer) was visually impaired, and made a valid point.

    I personally don’t have a problem with the current text, but I can see how someone would, and I would not object to darker text.

  • What a wonderful back and forth. It is filled with vile accusations. People speaking with a secret agenda. Free speech is wonderful and very entertaining.
    What does it all matter? The courts and the markets will finally make the decision. However, Ms. Riley says it went through a “lengthy review process”? I think that is the very crux of the AY problem. Whatever DG’s motivation, there was NO lengthy review process. That is unless you think 10 minutes by the ESDC flunkies is lengthy? The public hearings were a complete fraud. The EIS was essentially crafted by FCR.
    The poster who hates DG probably would have hated Dred Scott for suing in SCOTUS. What nerve to waste time that eventually led to the Civil War,anyway. Bottom line: the ends do not justify the means.
    Kennedy and O’Conner made it very clear the the states should clean up their acts on ED. 43 have done so. We are still waiting for NY.

  • 12:21, I’m 12:05 and clearly you missed the point of my post. First of all, I’m not Bruce Ratner, my name is Johnathan Rowe and I’m a life long Brooklyn resident (unlike Daniel Goldstein a/k/a “Kristen”). The point of my post had less to do with Ratner and everything to do with the NIMBY mentality that anything new must be bad. Again, I ask the question of you 12:21, do you honestly believe that if the “Unity” plan had been approved that there would not have been lawsuits, protests and delaying tactics?

  • “…but why do we need the densest tract in the US built in a neighborhood of 4 story building?”

    Because it is next to and above the largest mass transit hub (by lines) in NYC (and maybe even the country)

    “Why should we line FCR’s pockets while our kids get asthma?”

    Someone makes $ money on virtually every development (even Govenment owned/run projects) – that is a strawman argument – the point about ashma is that if people live in less dense housing away from city center more pollution and environmental destruction is the result – try to look past your own NIMBY agenda and see the bigger picture

    “What about schools, traffic.” A school was part of the proposal – and again if people live in less dense housing further from city center and mass transit more traffic congestion will result (albeit spread over a wider swath, so you can hopefully ignorantly ignore the destruction that your NIMBY agenda has wrought)

    “Why have FCR ignored the terrorist threat – someone nearly blew up the Atlantic Avenue Station a few years ago – and proposed a glass front stadium.”

    Total red-herring, would ANYONE who opposses AY change their position if the building was clad with steel? – but either way, there has been 5 deaths related to truck/car bombs or suicide bombers carried out by foreign terrorists in this country EVER. Hardly seems like more than a limited concern anyway.

  • Countdown to Dan’s book relating his struggles against the omnipotent evils of our society…

  • Goldstein a publicity whore, thus the moniker “Kristen”. I’m sure he’s already negotiating his book and movie deals. He’s a scumbag. Somebody over on Curbed pointed out that Goldstein’s dad was also a scumbag, who was an executive over at Drexel Burnham involved with that firm’s meltdown. Anybody on this blog have the back story on this guy? We know he’s not from Brooklyn…is he a trust fund baby as well?

  • Wait Biff is the spammer?

    -Diabolical

  • “What a wonderful back and forth. It is filled with vile accusations. People speaking with a secret agenda.”

    “The public hearings were a complete fraud. The EIS was essentially crafted by FCR.
    The poster who hates DG probably would have hated Dred Scott for suing in SCOTUS.”

    Good to see you’re above vile accusations and secret agendas.

  • Biff Champion

    12:57, mea culpa. Apparently mistakenly posting the same comment twice after hundreds of other posts made me the spammer. Oh wait, Brownstoner said, “Because the spammer–and now yo–”. I guess I’m exonerated. Too bad, I was really beginning to enjoy the noteriety.

  • this petition won’t make it past the docketing clerk. what a waste.

  • does anyone know what the owners were offered as a buy out?

  • Kelo was extremely vague and there is every reason for these people to petition the Supreme Court to hear the claim…that is how it works. One vague precedent does not end the legal analysis, in many ways it opens up more questions. I don’t think the Supreme Court will take the case, but they certainly have the right to try. And a lawsuit is NOT frivolous just because it hasn’t won in the lower courts. To say so would mean Brown v. Board of Ed and a gazillion other cases were frivolous at one point. I’m really not invested in the Ratner thing at all, just a land use law academic who was wondering as a purely legal exercise what happens if Ratner pulls out after successfully employing ED, leaving a blighted neighborhood?

  • I agree that Daniel Goldstein is not brave. A person as rich as he can afford to quit working for several years and dabble in community organizing. I wouldn’t be surprised if his father, a hedge fund manager, has helped to support him during his “activism”.

    If Daniel Goldstein were a teacher, social worker, bus driver, etc., someone who took a bona fide a risk in order to stand up to the corporate giant, then I’d respect him, even if I disagreed with his views. But with his financial security, I see him as a contemptible brat participating in a safe experiment and therefore worthy of no respect.

  • It’s comical to me the way these Anti-AY NIMBY’s hold Goldstein up on some pedestal as a hero. He has not “given up a normal life” to fight Bruce Ratner…he has no life! This guy is a complete slacker who does not want to get a job and therefore decides to become an “activist” to avoid the real world. In England they call these guys “Trustafarians”. He’s a total scumbag…

  • Sounds like some bitter people fell for the Ratner Kool-aid.

  • Attacking DG personally, aside from cowardly, directs attention away from the corruption that brought us AY. It is irrelevant as to how he makes his money or his father. That is a distraction as well as pure speculation. There is no speculation that AY was a corrupt,crony deal that is the subject of the wonderful book, Free Lunch.
    Those of you who criticize must know DG very well. Come out from under your rock and tell us who you are. I don’t know much about him. I do know a bit about AY.
    The vitriol against DG is telling. It just won’t work. The blame for this mess belongs to our state and local politicians. Had the process properly gone through ULURP, you would probably have your arena and affordable housing. Ratner is simply doing what he does around the country. It is what G.W. Bush did in Arlington, Texas. It is great to keep up this thread because it exposes Ratner flunkies for what they are. Keep going.

  • Bruce Ratner. Blight Mogul. Scumbag in Cheif. Trust Funder in Chief. Thriving off the teat of his Cleveland forefathers.

    Bald sheep of the family.

    blight King. Slacker! dabbler. welfare king!

    YAY!

  • its also funny. all this venom towards Goldstein. no venom for the other 11 plaintiffs? you people are sick.

  • 3:45, you’re full of it. It does not matter if AY went through ULURP, whether Extell got the bid, or whether Jesus Christ himself came down from heaven and said he was going to develop Atlantic Yards…DG and the other NIMBY’s still would have protested, filed frivolous lawsuits and employed delay tactics. These people have no life and they are using this ’cause’ to fill the void. I personally know three people who lived in the footprint of AY. When the buyout offers first came in, none of them were thrilled about it, but eventually they took their payouts and moved on with their lives. Why? Because when you have careers to build, childred to raise and dreams to fullfil and somebody offers you double your money (and on a leveraged basis 10 times your actual investment), you take the money and run. When you have none of the above (career, kids, dreams…which describes DG’s life at the time) but a bunch of daddy’s money in your pocket, you play “community activist”

  • Daniel Goldstein gets a disproportionate amount of criticism because he appointed himself the spokesperson of the most prominent anti-AY organization. It’s a no-brainer that such a decision entails tolerating more heat.

    3:45, for all of your self-righteousness, you are just as anonymous as the rest of us.

  • I wouldn’t be surprised if all this vitriolic comment is orchestrated or entered by FCR people themselves. I don’t know what else would generate this kind of hatred towards someone who is leading a small community group.

  • 2:09 – sorry but if you find Kelo (and the dozens of other precedents) on ED vague then I really have to question your self-titled moniker of “academic”

    ED law is fairly well settled and Kelo was about as clear as any SCt decision will ever be that the State has very wide latitude to exercise it in all cases where there is any supportable claim of a public benefit. Now you can jump up and down and say that AY gives no public benefit – but an arena alone would easily fit within the definition articulated in precedent before Kelo, much less in the wide latitude that the Kelo decision gave (including simply a larger tax base).

    Therefore while you are correct that DDDB have a “right” to appeal their dismissals, having a legal “right” doesn’t make it ethical to bring legal action when you have no credible expectation that the EXACT SAME court will arbitrarily decide to change their mind a couple of years later.

    And finally to your Brown v Board of Ed point – ED is actually articulated as a governmental power in the constitution – thank god our founders had the foresight not to write “separate but equal” into our constitution – so I will attribute your comparison of the two as more of the hyperbole and gross exaggeration that seems to define the Anti-AY (NIMBY) crowd.

  • “Attacking DG personally, aside from cowardly, directs attention away from the corruption that brought us AY.”

    But it’s not cowardly for DG and his lackeys (5:22, 3:49, 3:46, 3:45, 3:26) to personally attack Bruce Ratner. Nope, that’s not cowardly or vitriolic.

    Besides, no one said they “hated” DG – he’s just not a hero. Not even close.

  • i’m sorry, but to the people of PH he is a hero. Everyone loves David winning over Goliath.

  • Hey 5:22, why is that (to the DDDB/NIMBY crowd) anybody who favors Atlatic Yards has to a “plant” by Ratner? I don’t understand why it is so shocking to you people that there are people in Brooklyn who (i) are not afraid of change, (ii) would love to have a professional sports team in our borough (like Manhattan, Queens and even the Bronx all have in their boroughs)and (iii) would like to see the corner of Atlantic and Flatbush developed into something other than A LITERAL WHOLE IN THE GROUND some time in our lifetime!! It’s shocking to me that people like you think that there are not Brooklynites who share a legitimate differing opinion.

  • “i’m sorry, but to the people of PH he is a hero. Everyone loves David winning over Goliath.”

    I live in Prospect Heights. DG is no hero to me. Not even close.

  • What get’s lost in these debates is that (i) the vast majority of Brooklynites want professional sports in our borough (sorry, the Cyclones are great but they are minor league), (ii) there is not better place in the entire city of New York to build an arena than A WHOLE IN THE GROUND on top of the second largest transit hub in the entire city. These jokers act like they want to drop Atlantic Yards in the middle of Grand Army Plaza!

  • “When the buyout offers first came in, none of them were thrilled about it, but eventually they took their payouts and moved on with their lives. ” I am amazed by what a nation of sheep the people of the US – to gratetfully take the money of people who are seizing and their home and trot off. Really pathetic.

  • 6:08 – Get the Hell outta here!! So you mean to tell me that if you bought an apartment for $400k and six months later somebody offers you $900k for it your would not take the money “on principle”? You may be independently wealthy, but I’m not. I took the money and kept it moving.

  • 2:09, ED law is not well-settled. It is an extremely open-ended area of law that has rapidly changed since the 80s. Kelo was radical in that it allowed ED for private/public partnerships. This is by no means enshrined in the Constitution. I am a published land use law academic and maybe I overthink these things, but it is not as simple as saying ED is in the constitution and therefore the arena qualifies as public use. There are a ton of nuances in there. I agree that this particular Court is unlikely to overturn their own precedent, and especially in this area. I disagree that the area of law is well-settled. As for Brown, I was just throwing that out there off the cuff with children screaming in the background. But I think you get my point. The Court can and does overrule itself and just because they have already ruled on an issue does not render it moot. Each set of facts is different, to a certain extent. I think you know all this anyway.

  • 6:08 – So you mean to tell me that if you bought an apartment for $400k and six months later somebody offers you $900k for it your would not take the money “on principle”? You may be independently wealthy, but I’m not. I took the money and kept it moving.

    Are you such a worm, such a low thing that you don’t realize people can’t always be bought for money. There actually are a few people like that out there. They often end up dead, broke, whatever, but there are a few who won’t bow.

  • 5:22 – Believe it or not, there are people who want AY to happen. Try stepping outside of your bubble once in a while and interacting with people who disagree with your views.

    5:44 – I live and own property in Prospect Heights and definitely do not see Daniel Goldstein as a hero. I view him as petulant, egocentric, backward, and out of touch with community sentiment toward this project. The sooner his home is taken and he removed from the area, the better.

  • harrass???

    What do you call a gag order? That is harrassment…and that is just the tip of the Ratner “abuse..”
    If you guys think that DDDB or stein is the criminal here, then hey, there is a bridge we can sell you too…

    Must be nice to live in your world of worshipping some big lying developer like Ratner. Let me guess…you think Mc Cain is right for the job as well?

    If you want AY to happen, then why don’t you start donating money to ratner so he can build it, and get off of brownstoner. Petulant says as petulant is!

    The fact that you all stick talk about this like it is about one person, day after day, means you still don’t get it!

  • Wait, Goldstein controls the economy?
    You think DG moved into some place, before this project thinking, hey I’m going to create this project defense so I can be a media whore and take on my own agenda. Yea, that makes so much sense! That is up there with one of the most ignorant beliefs ever. Agenda’s are carried out by huge corporations like FCR, not individuals, who bought a house. Abuse of power, is Spitzer. To say that DG has abused his “power” is just nuts.

    We want the arena, its just the billionaire housing, do you really think that poor folks are going to live here?

    Said it before will say it again. Be careful what you wish for. If you think people like DG are your problem now, you are going to have a whole bunch of smug rich folks living there next, and sure as hell they won’t want the looks of you arena loving folks around.

    Just remember that. You’ll be begging for the pesky NIMBY’s to come back!

    You don’t think Ratner buying ACORN, creating BUILD, and buying the unions and churches, was not a tactic? Not an abuse of power?
    Grow up!

  • Posted by: guest at April 1, 2008 12:53 PM

    I heard that you heard, that I heard that your dad was a scumbag. Go investigate Britney spears.

  • I will never understand why Ratner’s richness is okay, but the accusations made of so called NIMBY’s is not?
    Can someone please explain?

    Sweet Dreams.
    Not

  • Exactly what kind of work do you viciously psychotically mean tempered people do exactly? Are you working for the city? Are my taxes going towards you sitting on your bum’s posting hate threats all day on a real estate blog? I don’t think you are doing anything too taxing, or too useful for society yourselves, no I imagine you too are sitting at some cush job that affords you the time to jerk around and point fingers and people you have no clue about. I mean really how do you justify, how do you cope with this deep rooted hatred?
    Is it a jealousy? What would you do with your “trust fund?” Do you ever stop and think about what the heck you are even saying? Is Jay Z some kind of philanthropic rich hero? No, he is a g-damn rapper!! So really, what the heck is the difference? He ain’t no hero to any hard working striving black youth, no he is a smack my ho up lyricist.
    So get it all straight look at yourselves a bit – maybe you are the actual scumbag, and any chance you get to anonymously spit rage, with no facts about other people, you take it and run.
    Sad.

    As for the Burnham comment way up top ( I have a job you see so I do not have the luxury to troll all day, only by night) g – any one in the financial world knows that the person you ignorantly accuse, was long gone from that company before it fell. If you want to write smut and create lies ( about things that can easily be traced) then it might be recommended that you get a job perhaps at OK Magazine or the like.

  • “The fact that you all stick talk about this like it is about one person, day after day, means you still don’t get it!”

    This statement emblifies the attitude of DDDB. To them, there is one correct version of events and anything that deviates from this version is simply wrong. This “anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot” view is what has cost them potential members and sympathizers.

    11:01 – people criticize Dan Goldstein’s wealth not per se, but because he and others frequently cast him as a victim who is “losing his home”, as though he would be sleeping on a steam grate if NYS seizes his condo. It’s fine to be rich, but to present yourself as “at risk” when you are more than capable of caring for your needs is shameworthy.

    11:14 – for all of your talk about people having nothing to do, trolls, etc., need I remind you that you found the time to post here, as well?

  • 11:01 – people criticize Dan Goldstein’s wealth not per se, but because he and others frequently cast him as a victim who is “losing his home”, as though he would be sleeping on a steam grate if NYS seizes his condo. It’s fine to be rich, but to present yourself as “at risk” when you are more than capable of caring for your needs is shameworthy.

    Like you say, other’s cast him as acting like he would be on the street. I have never once heard anything of that sort come from his mouth. He has never claimed poverty, or that money was the issue – it is what is wrong with PROPONENTS ( as long as we are labeling people in black and white terms) is that you think it is about money. No, it is about recognizing fraud and bulldozing corporate greed when one sees it. Make no mistake, no one has ever said they will be out on the street. HOWEVER there were people, renters who lived their for over 40 years, who were not as you say “rich” by any stretch, and that was there home. They were not offered a dime.

    The claim that Goldstein has played some sort of poverty card, is something that people like you have created. Whether you are rich or poor, there is a concept that we like to think of in this country called rights – rich or poor, we are supposed to have them. So fighting for them is not shameworthy, dear sir.

    Remember YOU, and people like you have made the so called NIMBY’s the demons, due to YOUR ego, your small minded way of looking at the world. So keep your finger pointing to yourself. Yes he is loosing his home, but never once have words of being cast out on the street been uttered. Poverty once again has never been claimed. Whether he will be alright, has not been the issue. And that my friend is what you do not get.

    Ratner, presents himself as a saviour to the poor. Do you think his intention is to help anyone else but him, his cronies and his family? That is shameworthy, to pretend you are in a sincere partnership with Acorn and the like, when we are all just tools, for his end result, which is more money. And to pretend that he is losing his right to build housing, what a joke. In his own plan, he never intended to build housing first, that is a fact that is out there for the world to see. Do your research.

    I never called anyone an idiot, you make it up that people say people like you are wrong, and yet infact, are you not doing the same thing?

    Yes I am trolling away, disgusted, it is true.

  • “I never called anyone an idiot, you make it up that people say people like you are wrong, and yet infact, are you not doing the same thing?”

    This is another DDDB tactic – splitting hairs (e.g. the arena is not in downtown Brooklyn, but in Prospect Heights; it’s called the Vanderbilt Yards, not the Atlantic Yards, etc.). I never said that you called anyone an idiot – the term was intended to be descriptive, not literal.

    “Like you say, other’s cast him as acting like he would be on the street. I have never once heard anything of that sort come from his mouth.”

    Again, this is hairsplitting. While he may have never said he’d be on the street, he’s forever casting himself as a victim or some sort of brave soul that fights corporate crime (even though this process is legal and he and his cohorts have lost every single court battle). This is where his financial status enters the picture. A person as rich as he has the luxury of waging this type of battle (as losing as it is) and therein lies the lack of sympathy – if he does not face a bona fide risk (e.g. bankruptcy, homelessness, etc.), then he turns out to be a petulant whiner intent on blocking a major development project.

    While you may have not been paying close attention to this issue for the past four years, many on this board have done so and know that DG is engaging in a losing battle and considers himself some sort of savior to PH. Thankfully, he gets very little attention in the media at this point.

    “HOWEVER there were people, renters who lived their for over 40 years, who were not as you say “rich” by any stretch, and that was there home. They were not offered a dime.”

    This reflects your naivete. Renting in a neighborhood, even if for 100 years, entitles one to nothing.

    A final word on DDDB: from the start, they have chosen contest strategies over negiotiation, a decision that reflects their lack of experience with community organizing and accounts for their woeful lack of success.

  • Just how rich is DG? Prove it.

  • It is funny what that guy calls hair splitting when he is taking paragraph by paragraph and trying to make sense…trying to be heard.

    How is it splitting hairs to say, that you dear anonymous guest, are perceiving goldstein as a saying he is a victim. he is out on the street because that is how you create action, and when you are a spokesperson, you speak on behalf of people, those people being the over 4,000 petitioners, donors etc who dislike this project, but yes, who don’t have the apparent luxury to be out on the street.

    If that is splitting hairs, then get your anonymous behind out in public, state your name.

    I repeat, I have never once heard Goldstein cry victim as some poverty stricken person. He is however, if we must use the word victim, a victim of a violation of rights. I don’t care if he is the Oprah, or the richest person on earth, he still has rights. And if that is splitting hairs, then bring it on.

    Just because NLG likes to write about things like Downtown vs. PH – does not mean that anyone against this project thinks just like that.

    You are the person who has decided that if there is no financial risk then somehow you are not allowed to fight for some thing unjust?

    I wish you dear anonymous guest would just answer one damn question. That is, do you really think that this “project” is going to provide housing, for poor people? Do you think that the arena, which is said by RATNER’s company, and any economic study, to not bring profit, will? Do you think that the people who do move in, are not going to be far more “rich” than Goldstein, or what you say he is?

    As for this
    This reflects your naivete. Renting in a neighborhood, even if for 100 years, entitles one to nothing.

    So I guess we should all rollover and just let ratner put his you know what in our you know where?

    Split that.
    jerk

  • Goldstein IS a hero! He stands up for the rights of the little guy. So what if he is worth $150 million, does that automatically make him a bad person? I think a lot of personal bashing against Goldstein is based on some of the underlying anti semitism on this board.

  • Ratner thinks he is g-damn Mother Theresa for bulldozing other properties to build a sports arena that will lose money, and luxury housing, while pretending to create affordable housing.
    Please if that is not praying on the hopes and dreams of people who as you all say are “real” Brooklynites than I don’t know what is. Pretending to care about affordable housing, and the poor black youth and men in the neighborhood, when he lives in the richest district of New York City – who elected him the saviour of the people?

    If that isn’t shameful well then…

  • Goldstein’s wealth has been covered many times in blogs and the media. It’s a no brainer. Playing the anti-semitism card is a cop out, plain and simple.

    Continue with your hairsplitting, because it ensures your continued failure.

    D-O-N-E-D-E-A-L!!!