Co-op of the Day: 205 Warren Street, #2A

205warrenLR.jpg
We love the former Catholic school building at 205 Warren Street that this 1,300-square-foot loft apartment’s in. Built in 1887, the former St. Paul’s Parish School is now a 27-unit co-op. The second-floor apartments have 14-foot ceilings, making them ripe spaces for loft mezzanines. Two other similar apartments have sold recently, #2E for $995,000 this past July and #2H for $990,000 back in the summer of ’06. Based on those data points, #2A looks priced on the money to sell at $995,000, unless you think the market uncertainty of recent months merits a discount. Man, those windows are to die for.
205 Warren Street [FSBO] GMAP P*Shark
Former Catholic School on Warren Street [Brownstoner]
Residential Sales 6/2/06 [Brownstoner]

0 Comment

  • interesting note about the windows listed, since you mentioned them…

    ***Windows will be replaced with Pella double glazed windows in February/March 2008 as part of a building-wide replacement program. New windows will be the same size as current windows, conform to landmark standards and incorporate UV filters, screens and tilt-in technology for easy cleaning.

  • It’s charming. But it is a 900 sf ONE BEDROOM apartment. Lofts are not rooms and do not count for square footage!

  • Agreed, 12:59. The listing says they are counting the loft space as square footage. If the ceilings are under a certain height (I can’t remember what #) it’s not legal living space and can’t be counted as such. Wonder if the other units that sold were similar in sq. ft.

  • The ceilings in the loft “bedrom” are ridiculously low. Pass.

  • Yeah I’m thinking that I wouldn’t spend nearly a million bucks to live in the ghetto in a really dull, charmless, cheaply renovated, little place like this.

    Cobble Hill can be downright scary any time of the day or night and I would never risk my life for the sake of windows.

  • it seems spacious and well-located, but for nearly a million dollars one would expect two baths and two real bedrooms.

  • i looked at this bldg before. the apts are not big at all. def. not family sized. great for 1 person or maybe a couple.

    lovely area. i think cobble hill is probably the nicest area in brooklyn.

    i wanted to move back there when i moved last year, but there were slim pickins…

  • I love the look of this place but it’s very expensive for what it is… with another bedroom and bath that price would make more sense to me…

  • 1:05 is a little sick.

    don’t mind her.

  • Agree, this is overpriced for a 1 bedroom with loft. Cobble Hill sells to families, and this space just doesn’t work. The other one that sold had 2 bedrooms and baths, not a “loft”. Just not the same thing if you have kids. Perhaps for a single, or couple, but then why pay the Cobble Hill premium anyway?

  • $1 million for a one bedroom in Brooklyn. It better be f’ing nice.

  • This apartment is actually pretty lame – the living room is typically undersized. Big windows and high ceilings help to hide the fact that it’s small, but still not a lot of bang for the buck in my opinion – esp compared to the apartments at 321 Union. I stopped in their the other day and the lay outs are GREAT even if the exterior of the building isn’t. Whoever pre-bought those apts made a smart move.

  • Cobble Hill is tops in Brooklyn, I agree.
    This church and school complex has never looked so good as it does now that it has been adaptively recycled into housing. I think it is charming.
    There is another former RC church on Strong Place I think that is undergoing transformation into apartments. I think it is terrific that the lovely old churches can serve new uses in the neighborhood. Too bad it only occurs in historic districts where the buildings are protected and cannot be torn down.

  • Wait a minute, is there something wrong with my monitor or would it be impossible to simply *stand up* in the “master bedroom” because the ceiling is so low??!! Man oh man…talk about a “deal breaker”. Unless they do something about those ceilings, the asking price is not just optimistic but absurd.

  • Brownstoner,
    “Those windows are to die for”?…
    Yeah, I would croak trying to clean/wash them!

  • I looked at an appartment in this building early this year and remember finding it a huge disapointment. The original renovation did appear to be done on the cheap, you couldn’t stand up in the loft, the bedrooms were very small and some of the fixtures were hanging off. I also remember the building entrance way and internal corridors to be really gloomy. On the plus side, it is a great location, I really like Cobble Hill. No doubt somebody will snap this up for near asking as there isn’t that much available in this area.

  • Wait a second, the main space here is about 21 by 26, that is pretty darn big, the second space containing a bedroom and two baths is about 14 by 23 also big. Pus there is a big loft that can be used as a bedroom or as a home office and a second loft over the bedroom for storage.
    What kinds of gigantic apartments are people used to on this blog? This is big. And the super high ceilings probably make it seem huge. You can quarrel with the lofts being included in the square footage but you cannot say this is not a family-sized apartment. That is just ridiculous. This is a lovely, somewhat quirky space, I am surprised it is being panned here.

  • No way is this worth roughly $1M. In Brooklyn, you can buy a decent townhouse for that type of money (albeit not in Cobble Hill). I could see paying $1M for a 1-BR in Richard Meier’s building but certainly not this.

    Plus, from the looks of floor plan the bathroom is upstairs in that narrow-ceilinged loft.

  • i would go nuts in a space that small w/ lids. i guess that’s why they’re moving. that price for that space is literally immoral.

  • It’s not that “the market uncertainty of recent months merits a discount.” It’s that in the past 5 years sellers have charged a premium to buyers who were able to buy with “cheap” money. That premium is no longer warranted because you can no longer borrow money at such low rates. Prices shot up so fast so that sellers could take their share of the cheap borrowing, not because houses/apts. were suddenly worth 2x what they were worth 5 years previous. Sellers, buyers, and apparently Brownstoner need to wrap there heads around the reality of what places are actually worth when you can’t buy with underpriced loans. That doesn’t mean the world is coming to an end, just that housing markets are going to normalize.

  • not “lids”, kids although the space is so small even lids would make me feel cramped.

  • This is neither a 2BRnor a 1BR. This is a “large loft-like studio” and should be priced accordingly.

  • I am suprised that this is illiciting such a hostile response. I know this is primarily a house-related site, but I’m just surprised that there is such anti-apartment sentiment. the comment that for a million one could buy a house somewhere (Bed Stuy? Bay Ridge?) is telling. There is no comparison between wanting an apartment in Cobble Hill and a house in Bed Stuy or Bay ridge. Two different markets.
    A lot of this is the anti-Cobble Hill, anti- Brooklyn Heights contingent. The older established neighborhoods, which made possible the renaissance of places like Fort Greene and Clinton Hill often get trashed here. it is disappointing.

  • Not commenting on price, because I’m not up on comps in this neighborhood, but I think it is a beautiful apartment. And it has 2 bathrooms. I don’t understand why people are complaining that it doesn’t have enough bathrooms. Loft ceiling may be low, but there is another bedroom downstairs. Loft would be great as an office, guest room or bedroom for a child old enough to be safe up there. This looks like a very well thought out adaptive use conversion.

  • They should have never put that photo of the bed with the low ceiling. That being said, I will pass.Give me the home in Bedstuy on Dean St. instead.

  • Montrose — the problem is that the loft ISN’T good for a 2nd bedroom. It’s open to the living room, so when your kid goes to sleep, you are stuck in the bedroom. Or you can make it the master, and you lose all privacy. Not good for kids, I guarantee you.

  • 1:51
    I agree, the loft bedroom would be perfect for a pair of brothers or pair of sisters old enough to go up the stairs. Brownstones have stairs too. Only when the third sibling comes along would this space be too small.
    Geesh, such negativty, and the carrying charges are under 12,000 a year.
    What’s not to like? I may go by there myself and see it in person.

  • Sam: A family is not going to want bathrooms down a ladder from the “bedroom” loft. Or want kids sleeping on an open perch above the living/diing room. And there are only 12 foot ceiling where there is no loft — the rest woudl be what — 7 at best (and only a muchkin could stand in the loft). If anyone with a chiold lived here they would probably put them in the only real bedroom.

  • Marginal neighborhoods like Clinton Hill are going to be hit first and hardest by tighter credit, no matter how far they’ve gone on the road to gentrification and how ‘charming’ the houses are. Just wait and see.

  • This is a nice place, and people who like lofts will no doubt like this apt. It’s obviously priced way too high.

    What do people think the price should be though?

    I’ve been noticing that most FSBOs are listed really high–usually around 100K too high. Why is this?

  • After plunking down 20%, your mortgage is close to $5000 and then there’s nearly another $1k in maintenance. Doesn’t a $6K monthly nut seem a trifle high for a 1BR apt in Brooklyn?

  • SAM – this is an 840 sq ft apt with two lofts that can, yes, be used as studies or a bedroom, but really do not make the apt feel bigger. I know from experience of living with open loft spaces like these that they give no sense of a bigger living space – they just feel like large shelves~!

    I think people are just so used to crappy apt lay outs that there are no standards at all. It is VERY hard to find a good lay out in this day and age, and this certainly ain’t it.

  • Nice space, really beautiful. However, the loft space should not be calculated into the square footage. But owners think the loft is premium, somehow. I recently saw a 578 sq. ft. “1-BR” on 6th Avenue in PS that is asking $1100/sq.ft. It has a small 200-sq. ft. loft with 5-ft ceiling clearance that is the so-called “1-BR”.

  • Kudos to “Montrose” for his continuing, courageous use of an alias that he plucked out of a history book somewhere. Damn, Montrose, you’ve got guts.

    –Robin Banks

  • Actually, Montrose does deserve kudos. If everyone followed his example, trolls would be neutralized and the general level of conversation elevated.

  • spend 1 million in the Richard Meier building it is a better investment.Ha no wonder the rest of the country thinks NYers are nuts. Piece of crap real estate for 1 million bucks 1 1/2 baths. pathetic

  • 2:24pm is correct. This apartment and price looks like Tokyo in 1989.

  • B’stoner: maybe you can start a website where you and Montrose email each other privately. What a jolly affair that would be.

  • i totally agree that cobble hill and brooklyn heights are excellent neighborhoods, far superior to others in brooklyn. not too many folks from these hoods maybe on this site tho.

    however, this apt. is just small.

    think a single person may choose a different area.

  • I seriously question whether this exact same apartment would get $1M even in Tribeca. Yes, Cobble HIll is a nice neighborhood but get real! Who would be crazy enought to lay out this amount of cash on a rather banal loft space (especially in this market)?

  • B, you sound like the church lady!

  • I can only guess that neither Montrose nor Sam has kids. You can’t put kids in an open area above the main living space unless you all plan to go to sleep at 8pm. Or perhaps if your kids sleep through anything, you’d be willing to consider buying this place. For the rest of us, it’s a deal-killer. And clearly, even the sellers have their kids in the master bedroom.

    This apartment is fine, just not for anyone with kids, unless you take the space next to the kitchen and make it another small bedroom. But I’d rather just buy a different apartment.

  • I hate to break it to you, 2:24 but this is also what you’d pay for a similar space in San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, West LA, Chevy Chase Maryland, Moscow, Sydney, Zurich, Dubai, London…

    But somehow you don’t think these prices are deserved in New York City.

    I don’t get it.

  • I think this will go to a single person or a young couple and they will love it.

    If it doesn’t work for someone with kids, they won’t buy it.

    Why are you continuing to talk about it ad naseum?

    There are many, MANY single people in this city who pay a million dollars for an apartment for themselves. Especially one this close to Manhattan, a new Trader Joe’s and some other really great retail in an area that only seems to be getting better.

    I personally prefer Park Slope, but I can certainly see someone spending a million bucks on this place. Not even a question. This looks like a terrific apartment and I love Cobble Hill.

  • Price in every US city you mentioned are falling or are poised to fall. Dramatically.

    Yes, You don’t get it.

  • Dear 2:39- I think that you’ve presented a hyperbole, but if not, please find the list of places in Tribeca that are like this, but under 1MM. We should pitch in and buy all of them if they really exist.

    Everyone’s so mad about the price of this apartment, but no one is saying what they think it should cost. Give the seller a hand pricing it fairly. Again, I think it’s 100K too high. Maybe I’m being too pessimistic. It sounds like a lot of posters here might think it’s work even less.

  • no way you could get this for 1 mill in tribeca. still think the space sucks.

  • Ewww, you like Park Slope??

  • The owners seemed to have solved the kid issue, and if you wanted to, you could put a second child’s br in the loft above the first. You could use the big loft for your own br, plus add a study in there. However, then you’re left with not much common space.

    I have a few friends in NYC who live in lofts with children. You can make it work if you want. Dunno about the schools in this zone, but if they’re good, this price isn’t out of the realm.

    Me no like the kitchen and baths, tho. Super ugly.

  • I must say that I also find the weird cronyism of this site off-putting. There’s always some poster who’s Mr. B’s “pet” and it’s like reliving some episode from junior high school.

  • I think this will sell for 975-985.
    It is not a cookie-cutter layout and I can
    see a young couple or a single person of means really liking it a lot.
    you can stand up in the 7-foot loft unless you are a giant or a giantess. And best of all, it is in rock-solid Cobble Hill.

  • 3:13, I honestly have not noticed that.
    Are you sure you are not the one reliving some episode from high school?
    Judging by writing styles, I would say that High School was not that long ago for many posters.

  • only someone with a very low self esteem would be bothered by mr. b having a “pet” as you say.

    i think you need to get a grip.

    it’s a blog, for god’s sake.

    75% of the people are anonymous.

  • 3:13. You’re right but about the cronyism missing the larger picture. This b’stoner site and its followers is a stone-cold cult. Beware if Mr. B himself starts asking you to drink some of his koolaid.

  • Park Place: OK — It’s worth no more than $750K.

  • 3:10, the owners are trying to solve the kid ‘problem’ by selling this unworkable apartment and buying a real family sized home. The real problem is that they know a kid-sized home costs over $1M these days. Therefore, they are trying to get the single/couple who might find this place useful to pay them that much.

  • Would totally buy it for 750K. Would buy it for 799K.

  • If you look up any guest, it also lists Montrose as a commenter- that’s just a problem with the logging, sherlock.

    I am Montrose (but only on that comment log)

  • To 2:59, you sure could get a similar place in Tribeca. Check out this Corcoran listing, for example. Even though it’s $1.25M, it’s a bigger place. You would be much better off forking over an extra $250K for a loft in Tribeca than settling for this overpriced piece of Cobble Hill real estate.

    http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=865907

  • “If you look up any guest, it also lists Montrose as a commenter- that’s just a problem with the logging, sherlock.”

    How convenient for you, Watson. I’m sure this “problem” provides you with plenty of useful cover.

  • it’s overpriced by 100K, but would make a nice indoor basketball court for the winter.

  • 4:11- That’s a nice tribeca listing. But it’s still 250K more. Look at that listing closest in price in that same building- it’s 688 square feet…

    http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=866081&ohDat=

    No one’s saying that this Cobble Hill listing is correctly priced. We just want to see a ~1000 square feet under a mill in Tribeca. That would be awesome.

  • Hey 4:19- the jerk store called, and they were out of you.

  • I think Cobble Hill does not have much going for it other than being close to Brooklyn Heights.

  • “Hey 4:19- the jerk store called, and they were out of you.”

    Well then, 4:37, it makes perfect sense that it would be calling you, in that case. You’d better get down there a.s.a.p. and make yourself available for purchase.

  • I thought it was its proximity to Park Slope that made it ok?

  • That apartment in Tribeca looks nice, but the pics don’t seem to match the floorplan. In the pictures, the oven faces the inside wall while in the floorplan it faces out (which would seem weird anyway). Also, the pics show the livingroom with 2 windows while the floorplan only shows 1.

  • What makes Cobble Hill interesting is its proximity to Red Hook.

  • to answer what cobble hill has going for it…

    it is close to perfect brick houses and some brownstones. i think brownstones are dark and oppressive, so i really appreciate all the brick.

    people with money and taste bought up everything, making it ideal.

    also, all the local restaurants, quick hop on a cab going down clinton, and the multitude of subway stops, make it very livable. it is also a more upscale, not so many poorly dressed liberal types or worse, boring just moved from the UWS types as in PS.

    i have lived in multiple nyc neighborhoods, and altho i don’t live in cobble hill now, i think few places rival it.

    if you like it and can’t afford it now, check out greenpoint. some similar housing stock, and lots of conveniences and no “bad” area.

    also, PS 31 + PS 34 are 5 star schools according to insideschools.org.

  • where is cobble hill?

    never heard of it.

  • 5:13, the pics were not of specific apartments.

    And I don’t quite understand the pricing of that building in Tribeca. 985K for a 1 bedroom, 1 bath 688 Sq. foot apartment, but 1.25 mil for a 3bed, 3bath 1500 sq. foot apartment.

    Does anyone else think this pricing is a little off (too close together)?

  • donatella

    Damn, I spent enough time in Catholic school. I would have to have a team of feng shui specialists, Buddist priests, Catholic priests, exorcists, etc. something to expunge the vibes of a century of students having their butts kicked and smacked around.

  • Cobble Hill’s greatest appeal is to families. It has a terrific public school and great kid-friendly activities.

    The problem is that I doubt very much anyone with a kid would consider this apartment. I know lots of people with kids who live in these kinds of apartments, but that’s because they bought them before they thought about having kids, and lived for a while in it. But they always eventually moved, and if they were investing in a place of their own, their biggest priority was to have two separate bedrooms. I don’t know anyone with kids who has intentionally bought a place where only 1 bedroom was private. Especially if the price is nearly 1 million dollars.

    So perhaps a single person or a couple who isn’t thinking about kids will buy it. But that is really the main market for this kind of layout. And it’s families who are clamoring to live in Cobble Hill.

  • I love the Cobble Hill vs Park Slope squabbles. Sheesh. Can’t we both just get along? And then gang up on Fort Greene? Then we can declare peace with them, and all three beat up on Clinton Hill for a while. After which we can make peace and agree to all give BedStuy or Crown Heights a good smackdown.

  • This thread is so depressing.

  • Cobble Hill, as mentioned, is very pretty, has a well-regarded elementary school, short commute to Manhattan, lots of nearby shopping and restaurants on Court, Smith, Atlantic. Nice little park, as well. Even though I agree that the layout has issues, the fact that there have been recent sales in the building at 900K plus convinces me that it might go for asking. (Yeah, I’m hedging with “might”.)

  • 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 10+
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    Montrose reliably scores 10+ and 10+ on both scales

  • 6:21, people come to this site for lots of reasons, but no one comes here because they want to “get along” with others.

  • Say Mr. B, my comments are being held for approval EVERY TIME I post.

    Is this happening to everyone or am I being singled out for this honor :-)?

  • “if you like it and can’t afford it now, check out greenpoint. some similar housing stock, and lots of conveniences and no “bad” area.”

    I always wondered who the lone Greenpoint cheerleader was. Now I know it’s a broker attempting to create the next “hot, hot, hot…location, location, location” (two turns of phrase that are so annoyingly irritating that they grate on my spine and make me want to haul off and smack someone every time I read or hear them).

    Unfortunately you lost all credibility with your last line. The location itself is an inconvenience and you obviously have a very succinct definition of the word “bad”. Let me broaden it for you: The fact that it is on the far reaches of the earth with no transportation [we're talking an average of 20 minutes to walk to the nearest subway station] and that vinyl seems to be the exterior of preference makes it bad. And, a few bars and some sausage shops, do not amenties make.

  • Everyone’s comments are being held all the time because some people can’t behave themselves and are purposefully trying to destroy discussion threads. Sorry.

  • 7:15–it’s for everyone. It’s the new system, probably courtesy of the loser who repeatedly posted porn and suicide movies last week.

  • I’m not complaining, but you might want to update the message that’s displayed after each post in that case. It says that after someone’s posts are approved the first time, it won’t be necessary on subsequent posts. This is why I was confused.

    Thanks! It’s too bad that some losers have to spoil things for everyone.

  • Seems like a nice apartment, but lots of money for the space, and sq ft. is totally misrepresented.

    it would be 625k in CH or the south slope.

  • This is worth $400,000 max! What are people smoking????

  • I say it goes for over ask.

  • 7:35 pm

    i wrote the greenpoint post. i am an investor, not a broker. i recently bought for myself and looked at this particular building. since buying and moving, i started to research again for investment purposes.

    i frequently try to post intelligent, well thought out ideas.

    why bother i guess.

    i don’t even live in greenpoint, but it’s on my radar. i really don’t understand your 20 minutes to transportation comment.

    most of greenpoint is off the G or B61. also, there are 2 parks and really really good schools. i am telling this to the potential buyers with kids struggling to find something under a million in a safe neighborhood with good schools. if this buyer is you, i present you with my idea….

    i personally go for more modern spaces and would not buy an old bldg… so i am not even suggesting something that would appeal to me. i am suggesting an older greenpt bldg. for the above reasons…

    since this is brownstoner, i don’t understand why the folks that like old houses and typically have kids are anti-greenpoint. it offers so much more than crown hts, bed -stuy and other neighborhoods that totally lack good schools.

  • The 1500 sf Tribeca loft only has windows facing the rear of other buildings, according to the listing. That would account for the low price relative to the smaller units in same building. And relative to the Brooklyn loft.