What Is Up With Schaefer Landing?

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We got bombarded this week with data about the sales (or lack thereof) at Williamsburg’s Schaefer Landing by a guy with either an axe to grind or way too much time on his hands. A few things we know: (1) The developer switched from Elliman to Halstead several months ago, which suggests sales didn’t get off to a booming start; (2) Halstead currently has 15 condos as 6 rentals up on its website, so the place is far from sold out; (3) Some original buyers (like Apartment 10D) are trying to get out of their investment. We’re not so sure about our tipster’s calculation that there are some 50-odd units for sale or rent through various brokers; this tipster also reports that a lot of the original purchases were by investors, not people planning to live there, which wouldn’t bode well for the stability of prices. Anyhoo, we’re sure some of you have been paying closer attention than we have. Is this really a bad situation — or is it just a big building that still has a bunch of units left? Property Shark shows no comps for the past twelve months.
Schaefer Landing Listings [Halstead] GMAP

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  • spoke recently to a woman whose parents live in the building. she said it was 40% empty, and that the majority of apartments sold (at least, those that weren’t sold to low- and middle-income tenants) were to investors, and were thus empty. i have no way of knowing if that’s correct, but judging from the dark windows at night, there must be some truth to it. the majority of people i’ve seen coming in and out of there are hasidic jews, who are there as low-income tenants. glamourous it isn’t.

  • Well I don’t know about sales – but they make it a hassle to rent. Last summer I spent about a week trying to get hold of the rental people – in the end I gave up and went somewhere else.

  • btw – it wasn’t halstead doing the renting back then

  • who wants to live on S 8th Street ten minutes from the closest subway stop which happens to be the JMZ, not even the L?

  • this is exactly what we’re seeing in the market now. the market got flooded with inventory, everyone AND their mothers looked for investments and quick returns. now people are sitting on places not attractive to the other folks who were smart enough NOT to invest in over priced, low quality places. I bet we see this happen in DUMBO and along 4th Ave…

  • I can’t see that 4th Avenue is a problem, if it is located in the vicinity of Park Slope. There are subways all along 4th Ave, and good amenities nearby. It’s just too bad the only option is pokey R train. The slower condo sales will be in DUMBO where it still feels isolated and like there’s nobody and nothing around, and in odd locations like this one that are not close enough to transportation. Once AY gets under construction and makes it impossible to drive or take car services anywhere for 15 years, the appeal of any location for a building or house will be all about which express subway it’s near. And IF it’s near one. IMO.

  • Disagree with the generalization about DUMBO. It’s unique and worth a premium in our opinion (though we’d only be buyers of the converted buildings, not the new highrises). You can add services but you can’t recreate a charming historic neighborhood.

  • This is most likely a temporary “vacancy” problem. Schaeffer’s Landing has several problems creating lack of complete sell-out: 1) location is far from the L train. It is also a hike of 7-8 blocks to the JMZ train (you have the water taxi but people prefer the trains) 2) Price point is too high for hipsters, renters in the area 3) The timing is off for this building to be a success just yet.
    Williamsburg in 5 years should be able to support these “uber luxury” buildings, but now, there seems to be the beginnings of market saturation in regards to condominum sales. The projects that are successful are those that are able to capture buyers on the middle-to-lower end of the scale. Think “The Maspeth” or “Aqua” or even smaller buildings like new projects on Humboldt St, Henry St, and Kingsland Avenue in Williamsburg. These are on the edge of the ‘hood and priced lower than the ‘hood pricepoint.

  • With the market this hot, this building will turn around quickly.

  • wow! 4 of the most expensive panthouses are still available and there is a blow out sale! (what does that mean?)on one of them.

    http://halstead.com/detail.aspx?id=1085073

  • DUMBO is great, but I was only presenting what I’ve heard from a couple different friends who actually lived there. People who tried the place a while then chose to live elsewhere. I personally love the buildings DUMBO offers, and the views can’t be beat. But it always feels like a place to visit and not live, to me whenever I’m there, still. It still needs that extra “thing” to make it feel like a real neighborhood and community.

  • I live in the building I AM NOT A BROKER, and yes, I’ve personally met 2 people that are flipping. I challenge anyone to find a building of this size (210 apartments) without flippers and investors.

    10D never intended to move in, it was always an investment, someone mentioned to me it’s a guy that lives around the corner in the Gretsch.

    There are 4 expensive penthouses available out of 17 units that were labeled as penthouses, not too bad. 15 out of 210 is considered “FAR from sold out”? Ummmm. Also, one of the units listed is a dummy listing, I personally know the girl that lives in that unit. There are NO 1 bedroooms left from the sponsor. Fact.

    The watertaxi is easy, the JMZ is a bit of a hike if you’re not a walker, but when the weather is nice, it’s no big deal.

    There are no Hasidic families living in the ‘luxury’ portion of the building, not that it would be a problem, but they live in the lower income rental portion of the building, which is a seperate address and entrance totally removed, you can’t even tell it’s there.

    Some units have already been flipped and the new occupants are living in them. What dark windows? Every time I come home the place is pretty lit up.

    We have a renter on my floor that seems really happy. He’s renting to see how he likes the ‘hood after moving over from the LES, then will purchase in the building or neighborhood if he does.

    For the prices and the size and views, there is pretty good value compared to Manhattan and yesssss, it’s not Manhattan, but not EVERYONE wants to live in manhattan anymore, as impossible as that may be to some of you.

    Can’t comment on Halstead vs. Elliman, I bought just before the switch.

    It’s a bit distant from the L and Bedford, nice and peaceful, with great restaurants on B’way. But the B61 is a few blocks away if you need it, it’s also walkable, and we have a shuttle bus, who is complaining it’s inconvenient that actually lives here? I haven’t met them.

    Check back in 5 years, it’ll be a whole different ball game sure, but I like it the way it is now too.

    Where are you guys getting your info? So weird, it’s like I’m reading about a different building.

  • Disagree about DUMBO…it is still in transition…the services are coming (Foragers is great) and will continue to come as the new developments open and begin filling up (can you say pharmacy?)…as Bklyn Bridge Park, Empire Stores and development downtown becomes a reality, DUMBO will be a vibrant destination and a vital part of the Brooklyn community. Believe that!

  • 11:04- where is this Hasadim comment coming from? What is the relevance? “Not that it would be a problem…” lol

  • Exactly the thing to ask, S. Will, “where are you guys getting your info?”

    There are seldom any factual statements made on this site. This site’s posts are mostly opinions based on merely looking at RE listings. Few people who comment have ever seen the properties themselves, have any knowledge of the building, or have actually been to the neighborhood they’re critiquing. “Curb appeal”, how a property or nabe looks to a passerby, is definitely a factor in RE and should be discussed. But the site would be so much better if more posters here had inside knowledge like you do. And if they don’t, if they at least admitted they do NOT have inside knowledge about the property and nabe they are commenting on. Instead, they all feel the need to sound like experts on all things. Sort of like my 74 year old Republican Midwestern father does.

  • I was commenting on 9:12 am… “the majority of people i’ve seen coming in and out of there are hasidic jews, who are there as low-income tenants. glamourous it isn’t.”

  • the theme is always the same – accessibility to the job in Manhattan that pays the mortgage. Areas with good accessibility …BH, PS and, yes, AY…will always trade at a premium to those that don’t have the accessibility…this place, CH…DUMBO has F only – no one commuting to lower Manhattan can live there – but people will sacrifice the convenience if the real estate is priced accordingly…Red Hook has always been the classic example.

  • Actually we’re totally in agreement, 11:15. That time is coming for DUMBO. I was just sharing what my friends experienced this past year.

    People need to get less defensive about their neighborhoods here. Why be competitive? It’s so square and dorky to compete over neighborhoods. We have a house in one of the controversial nabes in Brooklyn that always provokes heated discussions here. My husband and I will always totally willingly admit all the downsides to our ‘hood! In fact we’ll make fun of it. On days we feel like laughing instead of crying. Ha. We’re all in this together, people.

  • Be prepared to see a lot more posts like this one.

    Williamsburg, LIC, and DUMBO, and the “Gowanus Slope” will slump the worst.

  • Schaefer Landing is not the place to live to see “if you like the neighborhood” – you’re nowhere NEAR the neighborhood. It’s not like living up on N8th and Kent. There is no infrastructure. (Don’t say ‘Diner’.) And the neighborhood is not going to change all that much – south of Broadway is Orthodox and while some buildings are changing, it’s not going to happen any time soon. You’ll always be isolated from the neighborhood at Schaefer Landing.

    I know that when I was still working I was getting a lot of calls from investors who couldn’t rent it themselves and wanted help. But that type of property didn’t appeal to the type of client I worked with.

  • Actually, Anonymous @ 11:23, that’s not true. Take the F one stop to Jay Street and switch to the A. Total, a 15-20 minute commute to Fulton Street or Chambers.

    No different than commuting from Cobble Hill.

    And I am not a fan of DUMBO. I like some of the OLD buildings, and the waterfront, but the noise, the isolation and the new highrises sink it for me.

  • The hasidic element is definitly an issue. THe people will not look you in the eye unless you are doing business with them. If you are ding business and youre a woman they will not shake your hand. Id rather live in the Marcy projects than in their neighborhood. Oh wait that is their neighborhood now. Id rather live anywhere else.
    Im not talking all Hasids, just specifically Williamsburg Jews. They are weird.
    Oh yeah, the location sucks and the building is ugly.

  • 11:28, No, it’s not for everyone and maybe not for your clients. You’re generalizing. The neighborhood he’s interested in, is not the one surrounding the L. There ARE others, you are a broker you should know that. No one moved here thinking they were going to be surrounded by bars and ‘hipsters’ however you define them.

    You CAN always walk the 2 blocks North of Broadway for bigger change.

    Infrastucture? You mean supermarket? When I lived in Manhattan I used Fresh Direct, and I lived DIRECTLY across the street from an Associated. My life hasn’t changed one bit, oh wait, it has. I can walk 2 blocks without passing a Duane reade now.

    People have different needs and desires, there are 8 MILLION of us here, there is somthing for EVERYONE.

    Another post from a non-resident. Yawn.

  • “[DUMBO] still needs that extra “thing” to make it feel like a real neighborhood and community.”

    that “thing” is the people, not necessarily some imported or installed amenity. it’s going to take time for people to develop a sense of community.

  • To all of you people who are afraid of hasidim, get ready for over 500 affordable units that will be built soon @ domsey, just across schaefer landing

  • ‘DUMBO has F only – no one commuting to lower Manhattan can live there ‘?
    Is it a city or federal law?
    (seems to me easy enough to just walk to work from DUMBO to Wall St).

  • Anon 11:23… I live in DUMBO and work in downtown manhattan (broadway/nassau subway stop). Unless I choose to get some exercise and take a lovely walk across the BK bridge to work (such a luxury), it only takes me 15-20 minutes tops door to door when taking the subway. I live in 70 washington and walk to the A/C High st station (5 min. walk). Residents closer to the F train can take the F one stop into brooklyn to Jay st/Borough Hall and transfer to the A/C. I’ve done this route also and it only takes a few more minutes. If you don’t mind taking a 10 minute walk, you can even catch the 2/3 at Clark st. DUMBO is far from short of transportation options.

  • Friend of mine lives here. Stunning river/bridge views. But you can’t characterize it as “uber-luxury.” Dinky kitchens with GE Profile stainless, not Viking or Wolf, and the hardware is medium grade. Hollow doors. Bulky, obnoxious A/C units buldge into the rooms. Uninspired floorplans. Also, I don’t see the attraction of Billyburg, personally, unless you’re in it for the rock clubs and galleries.

  • have you seen the rental app?! good christ! my customers were like “um, dude… we dont wanna buy the place!”

  • I’m not afraid of Hasidim, although I wish they’d crack a fricking smile once in a while. I just hate the hideous, hulking buildings they build.

  • My clients were generally people who liked a *NEIGHBORHOOD* – people of all walks of life, shapes and sizes. The people I worked best with weren’t looking to be in hipster central.

    Infrastructure: is there a grocery store? drug store? dry cleaner? shoe repair? where do you go when you want a late-night snack – the nearest 24 hour place to schaefer landing is probably a bodega near the marcy j/m/z or maybe one on bedford and s. 4th.

    not everyone wants to have to take a taxi when they come home from going out after work – whether to the opera, the movies, or webster hall.

    not everyone wants to use fresh direct (time and time again, i find myself stopping my order halfway through and going to a grocery store instead). some people like interfacing with actual human beings and not just delivery people.

    i guarantee you i know the southside just as well as you do. why? because i walked those streets. you don’t.

    what i don’t understand about the hasidic hate is – where are you shopping or going that requires you to interact with that community, exactly? no, they won’t shake your hand, so what? they’re not doing it to insult you, they don’t touch women they aren’t married to. unless you have to do business with them, i don’t understand how living near them impacts you that much. never did.

  • Does anyone know how high(low) the ceiling is there?

  • Ceiling height is totally standard for new construction. I’d put it between 8 and 9 feet, no more.

  • Btw – You are talking about the Hasidim, 540 new condos are coming soon at Domsey for the Hasidic community.

  • hey, thats 15 places listed, we don’t know how many they are holding back, it wouldn’t be the first time.

  • i don’t understand how people who live in new york city in the year 2007 could possibly be complaining about hasidic jews. if you want a lily white upper middle class only city, why did you choose to move to new york city. it really makes me angry when people take for granted that the diversity of new york is what makes it special. the disney-fication of new york is being done by a select group of white men and woman and it’s disturbing. i’m white, btw.

    i just bought in historic park slope…beuatiful neighborhood…small apartment, but if i had unlimited resources and my pick of any neighhborhood in all of new york, it would be dumbo.

    re: the schaeffer landing project. i know 2 people who live in that building and they HATE it. can’t wait to get out, but they are afraid they won’t even be able to break even if they try to sell so are thinking they need to stay for another year or two and hope something happens.

    personally, i don’t think it’s good news for this place. they missed the boat on the whole williamsburg thing. yeah, this is off the beaten path williamsburg, but had this gone up 5 years ago when everyone really wanted to move to williamsburg, i predict it would have done better.

    i don’t see williamsburg as a destination of choice as much as it once was. the hipsters can’t afford it, the people who have money would rather move to a more prime area of brooklyn, i think so it leaves a sortof weird demographic left of people prices out of manhattan, want something new and don’t really care about amenities or a bad commute but still have money to burn. i typically don’t find that sortof crowd particularly interesting. but that’s just me.

  • Williamsburg Hasidic Jews are not nice people. We’re all for diversity, it is THEY who are not for diversity. If you aren’t one of them, they treat you like you are only slightly above an animal.

    And, JM, you are obviously a suburban middle-class white boy with a liberal arts education. Jews almost exclusively dominate the real estate development business in NYC, and own most of the real estate in Manhattan.

    A “select group of white men and women” are really not involved, unless you are referring to institutional investors, like insurance companies and pension funds.

  • JM, why do your friends hate living there? Is it the building, the neighborhood, the people?

  • I’ve never had a problem with the hasidic community. I don’t interact with them much, but see them everyday. There are plenty of Domincan peeps in the neighborhood as well. Oh there is a “neighborhood” for sure, just not wall to wall people.

    And how could I not walk the streets? I live there! Your broker commentaries are weird. Sounds to me like you couldn’t make any coin in the neighborhood, so you’re totally off it & that’s fine.

    As far as infrasturcuture, by your definition. We have 2 deli’s within 3 blocks, a kosher supermarket (Central Market) 2 blocks South East, a drug store on the way home from the JMZ. and a dry cleaner under construction in the retail space on the ground floor. Guess you missed all those things while you “walked the streets.”

    Anyone else who doesn’t live near here or know anything about South Williamsburg want to add anything? This is totally dumb.

  • Someone from PARK SLOPE thinks Williamsburg is a bad commute!???! HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA I’m home listening to Levy on the tables while your still sittin on the train. Tool.

  • Hey JM -

    I just moved out of Park Slope to Williamsburg. I now live off the the L, can walk to the JMZ (do most days) and am 5 blocks to the G, so I think that the neighborhood is super convenient – especially compared to the Slope.

    Do think that Williamsburg has much more interesting people, restaurants, etc.. too. Also, the waterfront will continue to improve and i just love being near the water (and love the views).

    I think that Williamsburg will get better and better. I keep meeting wonderful people who have bought or are buying. They tend to be a little more switched on. I got tired of boring people in the slope who would never had considered Brooklyn (CH, CG, PS) years ago when those neighborhoods were cool and now only grudgingly move to the Slope when they can’t afford the upper west side. obviously, that’s just my opinion – but I really saw it with the moms + dads I met on play dates.

    So, anyway, I am a real live buyer with a million dollar condo (and husband and child) who loves Williamsburg and would not trade my current place for any where else in Brooklyn (or Manhattan!).

  • Condo dweller, where are you planning to send your kid to school in Williamsburg? I live there now and agree it’s a great nabe, but we’re looking elsewhere in bklyn to buy because of the lack of good schools.

  • i moved from the upper west side to park slope about 3 months ago.

    and these two friends have commented on the building, which they do not like, as well as that is wasn’t really what it was cracked up to be when they first bought (i realize that is partially their own fault). but the point is, they do not like the building, the neighborhood or the people. i believe one of their words was “like living in house of 35 year old sorority girls.” i know some people like this and would feel at home, but i would not. nor do they.

    with regard to the comment about not liking hasidic jews because they are not nice. well if you knew anything, this has EVERYTHING to do with their religion and nothing to do with kindness. you are the same kind of person that wimpers when a mom in park slope passes you buy without offering to wipe your ass first.

    and i find it VERY ironic that you erychimachus are calling me a middle class white guy from the burbs (which i am) but please don’t make me cut and paste your comment from a few weeks ago when you whined that you YOURSELF ARE A GUY IN YOUR LATE 20′S WHO MAKES OVER 100,000 A YEAR AND CAN’T AFFORD A PLACE IN BROOKLYN. i can’t believe you haven’t changed your identity by now because you clearly are the exact same effing thing. oh and no rich parents just like you. i have a good memory.

    and i make around 35K less than you a year and just bought my first place in park slope and could not be any happier.

    and my trips to manhattan on the Q train 3 blocks from me(10 minutes to union square and 25 to midtown) is totally reasonable.

    and my commute to work on the upper west side via the 2/3 train takes 30 minutes. door to door.

    i’m not complainin. why are you??

    and to the last poster…i’ve absolutely heard more people who are wanting to leave willaimburg than the other way around, so clearly we run in different circles. my coworker (a hipster in the truest sense) said she can no longer afford her place there and is looking elsewhere in brooklyn.

    if your idea of better and better is more starbucks, more banks, more white people, more upper middle class, then yes…williamsburg is only getting better and better.

  • This is awesome, totally reminds of the who is cooler: L vs. F train resident battles on craigslist a few years back…lmao! BTW Pies n thighs is right up the block in back of Rockstar Bar which has been rather well reviewed, little stinky though. Guess the only thing you’ll have in common is the G train, or the Delancey stop transfer..

  • RE schools:

    right now, our kid is going to a nursery school in the city, but considering Williamsburg Northside for preschool (excellent). it’s only 20 minutes to her school off the L.

    there are several great public schools – PS 31, PS 34 and PS 132 in District 14. also, PS 17 is fairly well rated and may become great once all the waterfront condos are built. I believe that the Toll Brothers project is zoned for PS 17.

    Park Slope, Tribeca, Cobble HIll, are only good now because so many came to those neighborhoods to gentrify them. Of course, PS 321 in Park Slope and Tribeca’s PS 234? forget.. are very over-crowded.

    Once the schools improve, then the prices on real estate will go up up up….

    Williamsburg is just TOO CLOSE to Manhattan not to skyrocket.

  • Let me just add to that,
    “Buy now, or be priced out forever!!!!1!”

  • Proximity to Manhattan doesn’t ensure skyrocketing prices, especially when the transit options and neighborhood stinks.

    Just look at Roosevelt Island and Jersey City

  • Ummm prices have skyrocketed in JC and on Roosevelt Island, in JC just from a lower starting point and about 10 years behind Hoboken, new condos on Roosevelt are supposed to be pricey, most everything else are rentals.
    PS Roosevelt Island technically is Manhattan, NY County not Queens

  • What is better location: Williamsburg Southside or Hoboken?

    I would say Hoboken as it has a real neighborhood….

  • If you are renting hoboken is better, look at the state taxes you don’t pay.

  • you can forget about PS17 if you want your kid to do well. Thats just neighborhood hype.

    PS34 or 31 are both good – but you won’t be zoned for those unless you live in Greenpoint. Southside is well off.

  • Depends: if you’re in the NW corner of Hoboken it is even more/as isolated than far South Williamsburg. SW and Central W Hoboken have projects as well and as someone who has relied on the PATH train I would absolutely prefer the JMZ. Plus, Hoboken on the weekend is a NIGHTMARE.

  • If you do anything in the city on the weekends, then Williamsburg is better than Honoken or JC. Cabs go there, you have a choice of 2 subways, or a $10 ride from Northside car serviec, located up the street. How could you even compare the 2, apples and oranges.

  • here are some actual pics of a shaefer landing property, and it’a ain’t pretty.
    they want 1.2 million.

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/rfs/290542486.html

  • Wow – those AC units really are an eyesore. As for the rest of it, lets face it, 95% of the new condo developments are off-the-shelf “luxury” – uninspired, cookie-cutter, nice-enough finishes, median-quality workmanship, and all around run of the mill. Think Toll Brothers will do any better? As for the appliances, who really cares – if you want Viking or Subzero, put it in, and sell and the Profile stuff on Craigslist (hell, I’d take it).

    As for these rest of this thread, I think SL will always only appeal to a limited segment of the population. It IS extremely isolated – easy 20 minutes to the L train, no decent shopping within a 10 minute walk, 15 minutes minimum to get to the northside for shopping. There is one restaurant nearby (thankfully a great one).

    Between Gretsch, Kedem, Schaeffer and the miscellaneous Broadway developments, there should be some influx of commercial development – Broadway would seem to be the natural place. So over time, this area will become less isolated.

    But no way this area holds a candle to the waterfront development on the northside (Edge, etc) – they are close to many restaurants, subway (overcrowded though it may be), and a huge park (ok, someday, but still). And, there will probably be a water taxi stop there too.

    I’m glad S.Will likes SL – I only know one or two people there, but they seem to like it too. Its not for everyone, but for the right person, its a great place – fantastic views, easy access to Wall Street (and the water taxi does rock), etc. But its really not “Williamsburg” (for better or worse). The parallel that comes to mind is Battery Park City – also isolated and with its flaws, but also pretty popular.

  • Wow – those AC units really are an eyesore. As for the rest of it, lets face it, 95% of the new condo developments are off-the-shelf “luxury” – uninspired, cookie-cutter, nice-enough finishes, median-quality workmanship, and all around run of the mill. Think Toll Brothers will do any better? As for the appliances, who really cares – if you want Viking or Subzero, put it in, and sell and the Profile stuff on Craigslist (hell, I’d take it).

    As for these rest of this thread, I think SL will always only appeal to a limited segment of the population. It IS extremely isolated – easy 20 minutes to the L train, no decent shopping within a 10 minute walk, 15 minutes minimum to get to the northside for shopping. There is one restaurant nearby (thankfully a great one).

    Between Gretsch, Kedem, Schaeffer and the miscellaneous Broadway developments, there should be some influx of commercial development – Broadway would seem to be the natural place. So over time, this area will become less isolated.

    But no way this area holds a candle to the waterfront development on the northside (Edge, etc) – they are close to many restaurants, subway (overcrowded though it may be), and a huge park (ok, someday, but still). And, there will probably be a water taxi stop there too.

    I’m glad S.Will likes SL – I only know one or two people there, but they seem to like it too. Its not for everyone, but for the right person, its a great place – fantastic views, easy access to Wall Street (and the water taxi does rock), etc. But its really not “Williamsburg” (for better or worse). The parallel that comes to mind is Battery Park City – also isolated and with its flaws, but also pretty popular.

  • Lets face it. SL is a gated community, isolated from its neighbors. Even the next-closest condo developments on Broadway are much less isolated. The south side is under served by basic amenities and thus will appeal to more homesteader types than someone who wants a more mature neighborhood.

    The fact is that except for the views and water-front location SL is really a basic building with nothing special about it. It does follow the trend of quick, cookie-cutter units without character or any details which make it feel special. Again, look to the condos on Broadway (20 broadway, Gretsch) for more interesting layouts, fixtures and basic character.

    However, over time, SL will probably hold up well. As the waterfront gets redeveloped, it will join a nearly seamless string of water-front parks and developments which will help link it to the rest of the neighborhood.

    As a resident of the south side, I have to say that sometimes the fact that there isn’t a good supermarket within a few blocks does suck. But it doesn’t feel any more isolated than I felt in the East Village in the 80s before that neighborhood matured. Now look at it.

    Finally I do feel compelled to comment on the Hassidic community on the south side. The Satmars who live here are different than say the Lubavich sect off Eastern Parkway. They are more xenophobic, racist, sexist and basically hate anyone who is not part of their community (for those of you who don’t know what xenophobic means). They complain about encroachment on their community, but seem to forget that they pushed out other communities as they expanded. Not even 20 years ago there was a lot of tension between them and the latin community as they pushed south and east. If they just want to be left alone, that’s fine with me, but then return the favor.

    A great example of how out of touch the Satmars are with the rest of the world came on Marathon Sunday. Every year the marathon comes right through Williamsburg. For days before there were signs and police barricades going up. Then during the thickest part of the run, at the corner of Broadway and Bedford, a gaggle of Hassidic women with their 3+ wide strollers and assorted brood were arguing with police about why this was happening and why they couldn’t stop the marathon so they could cross the street. Oy Vey.

  • re schools again:

    to understand the massive changes, go to the yahoo groups of brooklynbabyhui or parents 11211. so many families are moving to williamsburg, that things will be different. people make a school work. schools are organic.

    the presence of motivated parents who invested in the neighborhood will make a huge difference. in our condo complex there are mostly couples – couples with children, couples that are expecting and couples who got a 2 bedroom because they are planning.

    on another note: i bought in cobble hill in ’97, and then in the slope west of 5th ave in in 2000. both places were considered less than prime. both sold for over a 100% profit. the increase in prices were fueled by families moving to the neighborhood. sold my place in the slope to a couple with a kid and who were expecting a second.

    the boom in real estate is partially due to the fact that young parents are not leaving the city. there are now more children under the age of 5 than ever before. this is a powerful demographic shift. HUGE.

    williamsburg is going to see increased prices in sales. owners who have put down roots in a neighborhood improve that neighborhood. very very different than renters.

  • Oy vey? What is this site becoming anti-semitic? These people have a certian culture. At least they don’t sit back and b*(l s(^it all day like you do on this thread.

  • Uh, 12:16 – if you posted as halicious before, its still there. Otherwise, someone else posted the developers’ names and prior bad acts on the LES.

  • There was a party, you just weren’t invited. Do us all a favor and please don’t move to DUMBO.

  • Umm…first of all this is not a bad building by Brooklyn standards, though living with Hasidim (Satmar Jews) takes a certain level of patience.

    They are very greedy and combative people. They will fight you for every penny and they will never say hello to you unless they are doing business with you.

    I lived for 3 years next to a Hasidim neighbor and it is not a pleasant experience. Satmar Jews also have become known for social isolation from all forms of secular culture and for opposition to all forms of religious, secular, and political Zionism. They do not acknowledge state of Israel, womens rights, etc…

  • “owners who have put down roots in a neighborhood improve that neighborhood. very very different than renters.”
    NIce talk!! I have lived in this neighborhood and rented for 10 years because I cant afford to buy and before you tell me to get a life and buy I can tell you its people like me who were the canaries in your coalmine, when you were too afraid to live here becasue it was too Black, Jewish, Hispanic and dirty…It goes without saying that we opened the businesses, galleries etc and gave it the ” vibe’ that attracted people like you to the whole thing to begin with, and now you are looking down at us? Yikes!
    And we have worked and fought to keep the garbage processing plant out of the waterfront, to get regular garbage pickup, police service, mail delivery etc.- all the things YOU now enjoy…

    I would SO much rather live next to Hassidic and hispanic people- as I have happily for ten years – than the whiney, entitled, jerks who are homogenizing my neighborhood into Park Slope.

    AND you should be aware that just becasuer you are middle class, the air and soil you are surrounding your precious little infants isnt:
    “Williamsburg has the highest rate of childhood asthma in the city, and the third highest in the nation. The area has a high rate of leukemia and other cancers.”
    I wouldnt have a kid here – its VERY toxic
    http://www.billburg.com/community/content.cfm?id=72
    http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/doh/downloads/pdf/data/2006chp-211.pdf
    NO matter what you try to do to the schools, your kids’ lungs arent neccesarily going to enjoy it…

  • Also ‘condo dweller’- re “owners who have put down roots in a neighborhood improve that neighborhood. very very different than renters.”
    How is living in one place from 97- 2000 , flipping it for a 100% profit , then living in another place from 2000- 2007, flipping THAT for a 100% profit, and moving on to most likely flip again ” putting down roots and improving the neighborhood”-???
    Uh no. That is called speculation, and while you are free to do it , please don’t have any illusions about what you are doing,because all you were doing is making money from participating in gentrification, with all the ugliness ( skyrocketing rents for renters, original people moving out, homgenization etc) and goodness ( better coffee, Fresh Direct, other breeding white people for you to hang out with) – that it implies The only thing that has ‘improved’ is your bottom line, unless you truly think, as you quite clearly imply, that these neighborhoods were improved- for however short a time- by your very presence!
    ha ha !

  • Truth is, most of us would not want to live in such an isolated neighborhood waiting for the area to “catch up” commercially. I looked at SL and the distance from trains is prohibitive. I personally think that the other developments on the north waterfront will do much better. In fact I’m gonna by at nortside piers, near the L, shopping, bars and restaurants.

    Also to repond to the writer who wondered aloud whether the Toll Brothers will produce a better product, there’s no question. I am getting a sub-zero fridge, an electric convection oven w/gas cooktop and my floor to ceiling windows will be glass without those ugly heater/cooling units.

    I think that the new waterfront condos (NSP and Edge) will always be preferred by buyers over SL. I went to go see some dork who was trying to flip a 2 br. in SL for 1.25 mill!!!! Gimme a break, I’ll spend that money on the northside first and feel that most people will too until inventory fills or SL becomes considerably more reasonable.

  • Summary: Schaefer Landing is 40% empty,
    Schaefer Landing is ugly, Schaefer Landing is not williamsburg, Schaefer Landing is an investor’s nightmare, Schaefer Landing is a isolated island (no bars no shopping no trains),Living in Schaefer Landing is like being in prison with waterfront views.

  • ^ dumbest. post. ever.

  • I happen to be a broker that sold many units at schaefer landing and am also a satmar hasidic person. First, regaurding the building and the people who are now living there have told me that they like it alot. Second, about the negative comments regaurding hasidim in williamsburg there are none residing in the luxury condo building and I find those comments very offensive and think you probably never really got to know enough hasidic people to generalize like you did! Hasidim are the warmest and nicest peolpe in the world!!!

  • It is interesting to note that the majority of people posting negative comments are not owners and have never set foot in the building, and that all the residents posting here seem to be happy.

    As a new owner our experiences are nothing but pleasant. The finishings and appliances are well installed and a pleasure to use, the double paned windows keep the place silent and warm and the common areas (including the roof, free gym and boardwalk) are fantastic.

    While the average commuter packs onto a train I’m sailing up the river in style with my newspaper and free coffee. For those too lazy to walk to the train (it’s really not so far) there is a shuttle.

    And it’s funny – walking on the upper west side, no one looks me in the eye or shakes my hand either. If people in funny hats and beards make you scared, perhaps you might be more comfortable in Boston or Salt Lake City.

  • I live in Schaefer, winter was terrible and I took off, but now that its beautiful out, I’m feeling very lucky to have the esplanade as my backyard – yeah, the place needs character, the trees need to get a little taller, but they’ve set up a great place to relax and look at amazing sunsets. Kent Ave is nice and quiet (and smooth) and a great road to bike – heading up broadway and busting left on Bedford gives you a great tour from S. 5th to N. 8th of Williamsburg. No, its not prime action, but not everyone wants that – like to be close to the city but some of the best views of Manhattan are on the roof of Schaefer Landing. I did my time in Bushwick – The Williamsburg/Greenpoint waterfront is going to be amazing thing for the city, and I’m happy to be a part of the change.

  • I live at SL in the north tower and I am very happy about it. tonight i had dinner on the rooftop and it was a real pleasure.
    The service is great, gym, garage, lobby, shuttle etc. The ac units are big but if you walk into a new apt rarely everything is perfect and some things are always changed by the new owners (move the AC into the wall). Then i do not understand all this racism about one of the few parts of the city where you can still see kids running in the streets and playing with no fear. This is NY and this is why i love it and would not change it for any other city. u don’t like? go somewhere else and make some space for smiley people

  • 10D might be trying to flip his apartment..but he’s trying to flip it for a hefty premiuum… i’d flip apartments too if i could actually get the ROI that he’s hoping to get.

  • Live in the north tower of SL. Here is real knowledge. The water taxi is wonderful if you work in the financial dist. The JMZ is not an ideal train, but it is not far (15 min tops) and one stop from the F, two for 4,5,6. Train is not fun in winter, but what is. Used to live in the building next to NSPiers, the walk to the L from there was exactly the same. I can be anywhere door to door by train in 35min, usually much less. If you have a bike you are 10min from L train. Parking is cheap, in and out, and is laid back. Gym and roof deck are both very nice, nothing compares to the water in your backyard. View is unrivaled…nothing like looking down a bend in a river. Have looked at NSPiers, apartments are going to be very expensive, and small comparatively. The workmanship and materials in the unit itself are not great, appliances are mid level. I will definitely remodel eventually. The space is amazing though, and will remodel well. Diner, Marlowe and sons, Dressler, Lugers, Pies and Thighs are all amazing restaurants. New grocery is under construction on Broadway. Broadway retail is young but the infrastructure and space is there for a very vibrant future neighborhood. It will always be different from the northside, I predict it will be a more desireable place to be then the northside in 5 years. For me it already is.

  • My wife and I are considering purchasing in SL. Could any residents please tell me of any issues that may have developed for them concerning quality, etc? Also, is sound from apt to apt blocked fairly well?

  • I live in Schaefer Landing and I love it. I have an underground parking space, ride the bike when its nice out and plan on adding a motorcycle to my toy collection. When walking, I like walking up Broadway and taking a left to S. Bedford, the road from there all the way to the L Train, and McCarren Park is filled with shops and people – it reminds me of a young Lower East Side, with the mix of new people and old flavor. Gentrification is what it is, and I enjoy the mix. I also like the early parts of Broadway (under the bridge). Its a great neighborhood – yes a bit isolated but that’s part of the charm and its going to change fast enough. I do hope the aLoft gets built, that’ll pump alot of people into the area, but what it is now is cool and chill too. – PSE

  • what is going on at 421 kent?