Albemarle Reno
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November 23, 2009
Dining Room Dilemma
Here's our dining room (not our furniture)...Lots more photos, and a question about the tapestries, below.
Among the interesting features are two tapestries: a large one above the sideboard
and a smaller one over the fireplace.
Before Albemarle Reno began, I posted on the Forum seeking an expert who could tell us more about the tapestries. A commenter directed me to a buyer/seller of embroidery in Connecticut, who suggested I contact the Met. The dimly lit catacombs of the Met website didn't lead to an obvious contact, and an email to the Textile Library a few weeks ago went unanswered. Any thoughts about who could tell us if it is, indeed, original to the house and what kind of shape it's in? It seems doubtful that it could be restored, but we'd like to know what our options are.
In the meantime, if it can't be saved, what could/should we put in its place? Here's more of the room for context
Comments
You might try experts at Christies & Sothebys.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 23, 2009 10:48 AM
Or try to find Clem Labine or ask at This Old House.
Posted by: Arkady at November 23, 2009 10:50 AM
Sorry, I have no answers/comments to your inquires.
But I want to say, that is a GORGEOUS room!!!
Posted by: Expert Textpert at November 23, 2009 10:52 AM
Google Antiques Roadshow and see if they list experts
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at November 23, 2009 10:54 AM
WEEP!!!! Cut it out, Albermarle, I'm dyin' here!
Beautiful! What a treasure.
You should contact the Brooklyn Museum. They have a costume and textile dept, and they also have a restoration dept. They may be more responsive. Contact their decorative arts and interiors dept, as well. The people who recreate rooms in the museum. Might be worth taking some pix and going down there in person.
From my general knowledge of period and antique textiles, they may be able to preserve and restore. Your problem will be with dry rot, and accumulated dust of ages. If the fabric is so dry that it's flaking off the wall, it may be too late, and any attempt to take it down, or clean it in situ with a vacuum, like the kind used to clean a computer, may cause it to fall apart. Encasing it behind plexi may be an option, but I'd consult the Bklyn Museum as my first resort.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at November 23, 2009 10:56 AM
We have large, inset tapestries in our brownstone foyer - not in good condition.
I guess my question is are these uncommon or some more valuable than others?
Posted by: bklyn1977 at November 23, 2009 11:00 AM
Fascinating as they are, they're also rather dreary, aren't they? Unless you are really into museum-worthy authenticity, consider conserving one in a frame, perhaps elsewhere in the house, as a curiosity, and enlivening your gorgeous period dining room with art from living, local artists like the ones on the recent FAST tour! Let your grande dame of a house be a showcase for fresh, new beauty as well as the past. The most exciting houses we see on the Victorian Flatbush houses are those that judiciously conserve but don't embalm.
Posted by: Brenda from Flatbush at November 23, 2009 11:13 AM
I don't have an answer for you, but my God I love that dining room. Personally, and I suspect pure preservationists will cringe, if you can't restore the tapestries (and perhaps even if you could), I'd leave the walls plastered and hang paintings. I might consider Oak paneling, but I suspect it would stand out as new against all the original Oak woodwork.
Posted by: CarrollGardened at November 23, 2009 11:13 AM
The gods of built in cabinetry are clearly happy with you. I only wish I knew what to do to please them so that I, too, could be blessed with such a score.
Posted by: dt at November 23, 2009 11:20 AM
In terms of a replacement, I would do scenic wallpaper if the budget allowed. Some of the most beautiful is from Zuber--with a bit of creativity you could duplicate the look without the price.
Posted by: tinarina at November 23, 2009 11:27 AM
Personally I would do anything possible to save the tapestries which look amazing and are one of a kind.
Posted by: wasder at November 23, 2009 11:31 AM
This is a beautiful room.
Posted by: East New York at November 23, 2009 11:47 AM
This may be a long shot, but perhaps one of the local art/design schools (Pratt, FIT) has a historian who could help you? Or a student studying art history who would be thrilled to make this part of her thesis?
Posted by: 12345 at November 23, 2009 11:53 AM
St. John the Divine has a textile conservation lab. They will take in pieces from individuals if they have the time. http://www.stjohndivine.org/campus_textiles.html
Posted by: SayMyNameSayMyName at November 23, 2009 11:54 AM
Actually, I like Tinarina's suggestion a lot. I'm sure you can find beautiful tapestry-like wallpaper, probably even in cloth.
I just Googled "cloth tapestry wallpaper". Here's a link with some nice traditional patterns, one of which resembles the colors of your tapestries, and I didn't even look past the first page:
http://www.thefind.com/homefurnishings/info-antique-wallpaper
Posted by: CarrollGardened at November 23, 2009 11:59 AM
Hi Albemarle. In response to your previous post, I suggested you contact the Hubers in CT. Suggest now that you try Kathy Francis, freelance textile conservator, 908-598-0158, francisconservation [at] comcast dot net
She has many professional affiliations in the conservation community, and should be able to supply alternative names and numbers if not able to help personally. The American Institute for Conservation of Historic and Artistic Works maintains an online database. Be patient, their website takes forever to load: http://www.conservation-us.org/
Posted by: vinca at November 23, 2009 12:36 PM
Wow. Just wow.
Posted by: Brooklynista at November 23, 2009 12:56 PM
You do realize this is essentially preservationist's porn, don't you?
My god that is a beautiful room. It sounds like you already have some great suggestions from others, but, as usual, I second Brenda From Flatbush.
Posted by: Nokilissa at November 23, 2009 1:07 PM
An incredibly beautiful room, the wood work is gorgeous. You should really do whatever you can to keep the tapestry. These are some of the touches that really make the house special and from another era. If a restoration solution doesn't present itself soon, hopefully you can just leave them in place until you find someone who can restore or stabilize them. Tapestry was considered a very high end and appropriate wall covering around the turn of the century and was often mentioned in design books though I'd guess far less often within reach of homeowners. This may have been a valuable antique or specially created for the house. Please save it for future owners.
Posted by: BHS at November 23, 2009 1:40 PM
Beautiful room. I agree with Brenda and anybody saying if the tapestries aren't antiques that are even older than the house you don't have to keep them. They don't appear to be in great shape, very faded, and in all honesty IMO they don't do much for the room. I love the idea of wallpaper too. But not necessarily tapestry-like wallpaper. Now that wallpaper is back in fashion there are a lot that are a bridge between vintage and modern that would be really fresh in this room. Take a look at Design Sponge's window and wall section for wallpaper ideas:
http://www.designspongeonline.com/category/windows-and-walls
Posted by: traditionalmod at November 23, 2009 1:41 PM
Sorry I am not in Brenda's camp (if textiles are salvagable). Plenty of other places in a house this size to display contemporary art. Then again, I'm a medievalist, by training.
There are great conservation people out there. The Met does have an excellent conservation dept, that deals regularly with maintaining the Met and Cloister's collection of medieval and Renaissance tapestries. I would give them a call. There area also independent conservators working in the tri-state area. They will know how to contact.
Rug people will also know tapestry and textile people. There is a carpet expert living in Ditmas Park (proper). I don't have her contact info, but she is known to many in the area, and may be able to direct you to a good textile conservator. Ask people in the know, like MKG for her contact info.
Brenda - I'm really disheartened by your proposal :( These textiles are rare, in terms of survival, anyway. So many original details in these homes have already been plundered. I feel, to some extent, owners of these homes (and I was one until recently) are privileged to have the opportunity to restore and preserve these homes to the best of their abilities. There are so many homes that have already lost all of their original details. If people want contemporary, why don't they buy a house in that state - a relative bargain, I would think...
Posted by: Architerrorist at November 23, 2009 1:54 PM
Brooklyn museum is good place to start.
Couldn't you have a mirror cut to match the frame (or some other artwork) over the fire place and leave the textile in place behind it...
Posted by: IMBY at November 23, 2009 1:57 PM
God, this place is amazing. The fabric certainly looks original to the house -- unless what you are asking is, are they medieval tapestries that were put in when the house was originally constructed? In any case, is there something wrong with them? Just keep them, unless you don't care for the look. Cover all the woodwork with plastic -- if you're renovating, everything will get filthy. Perhaps someone else knows if it might be possible to safely and very gently vacuum them.
Posted by: mopar at November 23, 2009 2:02 PM
If you don't like the look and/or can't find a way to restore them to a look you'd enjoy, one idea would be to cover them with fabric. This could be done in a way that did not cause any harm to the tapestry and would protect the tapestry in place by covering it. Obviously using a conservator would be ideal. Interior decorators do fabric covered walls all the time so shouldnt be difficult to get some ideas and options.
Posted by: BHS at November 23, 2009 2:46 PM
As with everyone else, your house is fantastic!!!! Even if you can't get the tapestries restored, as long as they are not disintegrating to an unstable point I would vote for keeping them. They don't have to be dreary depending on how you work the rest of the room, and the room doesn't necessarily have to be a period piece for them to stay. Personally I think a room is a lot more interesting with a blend of textures and old and new. B&B Italia and I think Ligne Roset and a couple of other big brands have all done some really cool ads juxtaposing modern furniture against old, even faded, backgrounds. Plus there was a Habitat catalogue a few years ago where they shot modern roomscapes in the Christopher Wren Naval College in Greenwich that looked amazing. Plus have you seen that Norah Jones CD in Starbucks with a tapestry background? Getting carries away now, but the romanticist in me thinks your tapestries are cool!
oh yeah, and also what Architerrorist said!
Posted by: zil at November 26, 2009 1:22 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions, links and wonderful leads on experts. We never thought about the framing option, which could work out nicely. In their current condition the tapestries do feel dreary as Brenda from Flatbush points out and wallpaper is definitely something we’re looking at. We also plan to liven up the room with some color on the ceiling -- considering a warm red at the moment. zil, I will look at the old with new concept you describe - very compelling. It never occurred that the tapestries could pre-date the house, but look forward to getting more details, which I will certainly share.
Thanks for the comment about the built-ins, dt, we do indeed feel blessed. One of many things to be thankful for this holiday weekend.
Posted by: albemarle at November 29, 2009 11:08 AM
That room is amazing.
Posted by: P at November 30, 2009 6:28 PM
As an architect that specializes in historic restorations and renovations I have to say the choice is easy. The colors are gone forever within the textile and such items are becoming more and more rare as time goes by. If you can have it safely removed and stored in a acid free, dry, lightless box I would do it ASAP. There are reproduction tapestries similar in scale and theme to your pieces and I would rather see a color fast example put in the opening. The original textiles will only continue to fade and degrade over time if left exposed to light, humidity and the smoke of the fireplace. Remove them, keep them safe and replace them with something similar in spirit. The next owners will be thankful for your insight.
Posted by: FloatingWorld at December 4, 2009 3:45 AM
Am late to this thread but I thought I would chime in. My wife is the oriental rugs and carpet expert that Architerrorist refers to above. We do live in the neighborhood, and she will definitely have an opinion and insight for you if you're still looking for it. You're welcome to contact her at eparker@christies.com.
Congratulations on your house. I've admired it for a few years now and am really enjoying your well written blog.
Posted by: weeping mulberry at December 13, 2009 9:29 AM
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