Greenwood Heights Backyard

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September 12, 2008

Messing with the bull, get ready for the horns!

Let us return back to our original post and the idea that due to the construction fence being up, our point-of-view of our back yard changed. Along with that idea, so did the plan of just replacing the immense concrete patio "as-is" (or rather "as-was") with alternate materials such as pavers, flagstone and gravel.

Above: this is what we might have replaced originally
(and yes, the construction fence is down, more on that later)

We certainly were on-board with the new ideas proposed by Fun City Design, and we thought our friendly neighborhood developer was as well. That is, until he saw the bill.

Now I know what everyone is going to say: "You should have gotten all of this in writing from the developer." Well, in theory, that's correct, in practice, it's near impossible. We have know several folks who have been in similar situations, had property "used" or damaged by a development project and a "deal" with the developer, whether it be a handshake or a letter of commitment. It ultimately comes down to the character of the developer and how they see their ROI and bottom line. We have seen developers stay true to their word (and then some) and we have seen others flagrantly disregard any written deal they may have had with our friends.

Ours was a spoken word, hand shake agreement from day one.

OK, to set the record as straight as I can, our friendly neighborhood developer never said "no way." What he did was a bit of a switcheroo.

Rather than compensating us for the remediation of our patio + hardship via a check, he wanted to do the following scenario:

1. I'll give you all the materials you want (concrete, pavers, bluestone, planters, pea gravel, etc.), but I don't want the headache of finding a sub and managing the job.
(we say, "well, that seems OK, you worry about the materials, we'll hire the contractor and manage the project")

2. No, I'll give you the materials for FREE, but you have to PAY the contractor out of your own pocket

(we say "Huh? Demo and labor are two-thirds of the price!")

3. Now, it was you who decided to go and hire a landscape designer and rethink your back yard, why am I responsible for the new plan?

(we say, "well, Mr. Developer, if you had not taken half our yard for 6 months, made us move our garden, wrecked our patio, etc., we never would have thought to redo the back yard")

4. Don't you think you are taking advantage of us?

(we say, "No, we are not expecting you to pay for the designer, nor did we think you would pay for the whole project, but we did expect you to pay for what you broke and used...or some equivalent!")

5. OK, you need to tell me what would make you happy, but is fair to me.

(we say, "We need to get back to you on that obtuse thought, since what we're showing you would make us happy.")

Step back, take a deep breath and try not to curse. Let's look at the situation. The replacement of the patio included demo, cartage, form work, pumping the concrete through the new four story brick building to our yard and the materials has an intrinsic price associated with it, somewhere in the ball park of $16/sq. foot. plus the offer by our new neighbor to "upgrade us" for our troubles.

Our thought was to take the value of the replacement and use that towards the design by Fun City and negotiate the remaining $$ as the promised "upgrade."

No dice, as they say.

So, after much cursing, cooling off and discussions with Your Way Contracting and Fun City Design, we worked out a new plan of what we thought was "fair" and while we would be "less happy" at least we would be closer to Fun City's design.

Revised rough sketch (click to enlarge)

As you can see by my sketch based on Fun City's original plan, we reduced the overall materials, lost the planters and reconfigured the seating area and beds. What we did not change was the need for our friendly neighborhood developer to pay for the LABOR and MATERIALS.

We had the job requoted to almost $16/sq. ft on the nose and had two additional contractor friends spec and quote the project if we were only replacing what was there. Again, approximately $16/sq. ft. Diana, who has been super supportive during all the "bull," reworked her plan to my sketch and the new "reality" of what the project, at this phase, would be.

Revised plan by Fun City Design (click to enlarge)

The next conversation with our friendly neighborhood developer went a bit better. With a new plan in hand, a revised quote, two more back up quotes and a very stern insistence on him keeping HIS WORD and good reputation. We also reminded him of our two offers, one in March during the demolition of the existing building and the other in June after the first floor pad was complete, to demo the patio and we would live with weed mats for the summer, making it easier for them to demo. They said no, we shrugged our shoulders. In the end, they realized they should have followed through with the idea and we were correct in assuming they would pay for the demo and cartage.

In the end, living up to most of our handshake agreement, he and his partners agreed to pay for 90% of the new contract. Fearing no more blood from this stone, or brick for that matter, we accepted the deal. Handshake deal done, we agreed to sign a release agreement upon receiving the check.

Stay tuned for the next installment to see how that transaction went.

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Comments

I hope I'm wrong, but why do I think your next installment is going to make my blood boil? I'm on the edge of my seat. As the survivor of a five hour closing with an unscrupulous flipper, I know how easy it is to think you've pinned everything down, only to have new surprises unleashed upon you. Here's hoping you have the check in hand.

Posted by: slopefarm at September 12, 2008 1:37 PM

Thanks for the support slopefarm.

I all fairness, I should add that we have know this developer for 3 years. He and his partners, for the most part, have been up-front and responsive to our and the neighborhood's requests and addressing problem issues that arose. Basically, "he's a nice guy." But, he's also in the business of building condos. And there is always a bottom line.

Our angst was not that our friendly neighborhood developer would NOT live up to our handshake agreement, it was how he would. In the end, though through a lot of stress (perhaps on both sides, who knows), it is going to be best for us to hire the contractor and manage the job ourselves making sure we make ourselves "happy." Let our friendly neighborhood developer focus on his project and us on ours. Onward.

Posted by: tikihouse at September 12, 2008 4:52 PM

I hope it has worked out satisfactorily. I can see both sides here: From his point of view, he's not giving you a blank check to create the garden of your dreams; from your point of view, he basically "took" part of your private property for his own use and ultimate profit.

But having been burned by handshake deals, I probably would have gotten something in writing that included a dollar amount rather than messing about with labor vs. materials. That way you could have approached an architect knowing exactly what you could afford.

Posted by: Bolder at September 14, 2008 6:37 PM

Sounds like and looks like you are trying to get a brand new, wonderfully designed new backyard for the trade off a mild inconvenience, some broken pieces of an old patio and the loss of a few square feet of your property.

When they wanted to encroach upon your property for a said period of time, what was the agreement then? Money per month? New patio? Nothing, just neighborly compassion? I have let builders (skim coat)/neighbor (roofing) onto my property for access and expected nothing, but access if I needed it in the future.

Posted by: bmfesq at September 16, 2008 3:29 PM

bmfesq,

Being kind of critical, no? Not a brand new yard from the good graces from our friendly neighborhood developer, but like kind trade (and monetary value) of what we agreed upon as replacement/rent/compensation/"dealing with it" while they used our property for free for 6 1/2 months.

This was not a neighbor looking to patch their home, fix a roof or a fence, as they could of when the original home (and area way between the homes). It was the demo of a 2 story frame home, excavation, pile-driving, foundation work and a new 4 story brick building now ATTACHED to our home.

The fact we chose to rethink the way that handshake deal would be concluded is the whole point of this blog.

If they just needed access, as I stated above we know them, then no problem. This was a major part of yard, not to mention the ordeal of underpinning and pile-driving to get their foundation plans to code. Compensation was discussed and agreed upon. 20/20 hindsight was we should have settled on a figure up front, again, the reason for this blog. Compensation is in the "eye of the beholder," as it's barely the replacement costs. We're fronting the rest. But that's life, right?

In the end, I think it's a fair trade for both sides. Could have it been better, sure, but the fact that we thought of rethinking out outdoor space at all was and upside of the handshake deal, in a secondary way. Again, part of this blog. Read on.

Posted by: tikihouse at September 16, 2008 5:34 PM

bmfesq,
Having been through the experience of a giant condo going up next to my small frame house and dealing with developer promises, I can tell you it's not the same as a neighbor patching their roof. Despite clear instructions to stay the hell off my property and promises that they would not need to be on our lot at all, I've found workers there stealing water from my tap, jackhammering into my cement walkway, tossing their lunch garbage into my yard, working after hours, doing illegal asbestos abatement and demo. All of this for the last 2 years- 2 summers of not being able to enjoy the yard that we bought the house for. All that in addition to the bigger issue of shoddy construction practices that led to damage to our roof, siding and entire patio. Then came the scaffolding in my yard for months rather than the 3 weeks as promised.

When it was all happening, all we heard was "we'll pay for it, no problem" but when the time came to fork over the money there was great discussion as to what would actually be paid for. And yeah, after all that BS, why would I rip up my entire patio and half my siding to replace it with something I wasn't keen on just because that was there before. Those are the kind of jobs you only want to do once, so if the yard was going to be ripped up, I better like what's going back in. In the case of the siding, they couldn't have patched it if they wanted to and been able to match the color.

He paid for replacement, and like tikihouse, we paid for some upgrades but you have to consider the fact that it didn't need to be done originally and it was money we wouldn't have spent just then. These were not priority items before they became damaged. Not to mention time taken from work to interview and oversee numerous contractors and time spent having to do demo to cover costs not paid for in settlement. In all, we wound up on the short end by 4K and had to do some things ourselves which is not the way most people choose to spend their hard earned vacation time. I'm not getting compensated for that. The money it would have cost me in lawyer fees to draft an agreement with the developer or fight him in court would have been more than the difference in what we wanted and what we got so that line of attack would have been pointless.

It's not a fun thing to have your property damaged. A little more care while working and less haggling over the money would've been just good business practice but many of these guys operate on the principle that they can do whatever they want and wear you down in haggling later. At the end of all of it, you do walk away with the feeling you should be getting a little something out of this because of the endless hassle.

Posted by: kensington gal at September 18, 2008 10:49 AM